bulging seam

[Dave27]

ncitro Cate&Rob Hi Neil and Rob, Thank you for your replies. I will keep an eye on it as we travel. When we get to warmer temperatures, I will pull out the trim and poke around in there. Then I will seal it up with silicone. Right now I put tape over the trim to keep water out until we get somewhere warmer. Rob, I will wait to hear what GD says to you, then based on that, I will make my own contact. Thank you both. Have a Merry Christmas!
Dave

[Jsm180]

Here is the cut on mine. It doesn't change when the pin is loaded and there is no sign of any damage inside. It is bowed slightly, about 1/8". I'm not concerned other than to get it sealed.

[Cate&Rob]

Dave27 Jlawles2 Scott'n'Wendy I will ask Grand Design . . . but may not get an answer back until after Christmas.

Rob

Dave27Jlawles2 Scott'n'Wendy

I have heard back from Grand Design with confirmation that this is an expansion joint cut into the sidewall during manufacturing and then sealed and covered with the plastic molding in question. If the molding has simply come off, it should be reinstalled (I assume with silicone). If there is movement in this joint, particularly when hitching to the truck . . . further investigation is required.

Rob

[Dave27]

Cate&Rob Jlawles2 Scott'n'Wendy Thank you for checking on this Rob. I do not notice any difference when I load it on the truck, or take it off. I cannot push the "bulge" all the way in, especially at the bottom, it feels hard. The upper part is movable, but I can't line up the two sides, the rearward side may be pushed in, so it can't line up by just pushing. My initial thought on this was it could be related to temperature expansion/contraction. I didn't notice the bulge when I put the camper away, or when I waxed it, or checked the caulking on the seams this fall. The first time I noticed it was after severely cold (well below freezing) temperatures. The camper is also exposed to full sun, so it can get pretty hot too. I do not see any signs of water damage, and there aren't any signs of issues with the interior walls in the bedroom. I don't know how to look at any other areas that might be affected. I am open to any other suggestions. I can fill it with silicone and push the trim back into place as best as possible. I can call GD and see if they have any suggestions. At this point I'm not sure how concerned I should be about this.
Thanks for your suggestions.
Dave

[Jlawles2]

I suggest contacting GD either way.

If the 2 halves of the joint are both not straight with one being in and the other out (hope this makes sense) it could be that there is excessive contraction of the member in the area causing the buckling. I would hope there is a vertical behind the seam, but GD would need to supply you with a wall diagram to verify.

[Dave27]

I talked with Grand Design customer service. She first suggested a dealership, but I questioned their lack of expertise in something like this. She then suggested I have it looked at by a "truck and axle" place. I asked about having their service center look at it. She was reluctant, but when I offered to send a photo, she sent me case number and will forward it to the center to see if they can schedule something. We would have to pay for it. since it is out of warranty. She also suggested calling Lippert.

Do you think it is worth calling Lippert? How do I find a "truck and axle" place that would know about this kind of problem?
thanks, Dave

[Cate&Rob]

Hi Dave,

Grand Design Customer Service seems to be "assuming" that this issue is caused by a failure in the Lippert frame. We have had discussion on this forum about an issue like this being caused by a failure of the wall frame. Wall frames are built entirely in-house at Grand Design. I think you should keep pushing for the Grand Design factory service center to have a look at this. A "truck and axle place" is going to know nothing about repairing the wall, if this is indeed the issue. I would suggest that you take pictures or a video of this area during connecting/disconnecting from the truck to demonstrate that there is no change that would indicate a Lippert frame problem.

Rob

[Dave27]

Hi Dave,

Grand Design Customer Service seems to be "assuming" that this issue is caused a failure in the Lippert frame. We have had discussion on this forum about an issue like this being caused by a failure of the wall frame. Wall frames are built entirely in-house at Grand Design. I think you should keep pushing for the Grand Design factory service center to have a look at this. A "truck and axle place" is going to know nothing about repairing the wall, if this is indeed the issue. I would suggest that you take pictures or a video of this area during connecting/disconnecting from the truck to demonstrate that there is no change that would indicate a Lippert frame problem.

Rob

Thank you Rob for so clearly articulating the issue. I was trying to think of a way of saying the issue looks like the "wall frame", but I couldn't think of how to word it. I am going to update my email to include this idea. Thank you!
Dave

[Dave27]

I have been going back and forth with GD customer service. They are convinced it is a delamination problem based on the first pictures I sent (attached to this thread) I took two more photos that do a better job of viewing the camper siding in the “bulge”. In photo “Bulge 3” you can see I am holding the molding insert (that you used to seal out weather in the expansion joint) out away from the siding. There is blue tape on the top of the weather strip and on the side of the camper behind the expansion joint. You can see the edge of the weather strip and the top of the fiberglass siding. There is no separation between the fiberglass and the rest of the sidewall. Photo “Bulge 4” is a better close up, again it is clear, no separation. They still think this is delamination. Maybe I don't understand what delamination is, I thought it is the fiberglass separating from the sidewall below it. Does this look like delamination? And if so, where can I take it for repair?

Dave

[Jlawles2]

Dave, I think any type of separation of any of the layers would be referred to as de-lamination. The outer walls your trailer appear to be a sandwich of many layers. In your case it appears the luan is separating from the aluminum / foam wall components.

Outer most to innermost: (i may have missed something)
Fiberglass skin
Luan
Foam / aluminum frame
interior wall
wallpaper

For a good idea check out the 14:30 ISH mark of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flp1qwGlWlY where they tour the facility and they show the lamination shop.

[Cate&Rob]

Hi Dave,

I would agree with Jlawles2 Joseph’s description of the situation. The layers of laminated wall assembly as Grand Design builds it have separated. The only way that the Grand Design Service Center would come at this is to replace the entire wall. RV body shops deal with delamination on a much smaller scale, repairing just the area that has delaminated. You could certainly get a quote from Grand Design for a wall replacement. I do not have any recommendation WRT a body shop that could handle this. Perhaps others on this forum have first hand advice.

Rob

[KamFlyer]

I saw something similar on our 374TH passenger side. On ours that seam is almost right under the front edge of the living room slide. Water was running down the sidewall and getting through a poorly sealed corner where the d-seals and wipers join. Water got into the luan behind the fiberglass and swelled it up causing the bulge. Fortunately I caught it before it got too far and I was able to clean out the swollen wood and injected gorilla glue into the void to glue it all back together. I then resealed everything. So far so good.

[ncitro]

Dave that looks terrible and I know exactly the feeling in your chest when you look at it. Honestly the only one I'd trust to make that repair is the factory service center. They're equipped to pull the wall find the source of the issue and take the repair deeper than just the delam if needed.

If they won't cover it I know they work with insurance companies for claims, maybe go that route?

[Dave27]

I am still concerned that something (like the wall frame) pushed the wall, causing it to separate at the foam interface. I cannot push the bulge back together, it seems like if it was just separation at the foam I could push it together. So far GD has not been interested in having me bring the camper in to their facility to diagnose and repair the problem. They keep pushing me to see a dealer. I could ask for a quote like Rob suggested, but I'm not sure they will. I am also concerned about a solution that replaces the entire wall. I had Roof Armor put on my roof and it overlaps the wall seam. I would hate to cut that off to replace the wall. It would probably mean another trip to Kansas City to have the Roof Armor repaired. If I could find a shop that knew what they were doing, both from a wall frame and wall lamination point of view, it might be the best solution. But how would I find one?

The other solution might be to seal it up with silicone, and just watch it. If it never gets worse, no problem. If it does get worse, I'm back to my current dilemma. I am very open to suggestions.
thanks, Dave

[Jlawles2]

Dave27 Dave, composite materials are unique things. With the wall, since the wood grows and the fiberglass does not, which way it bulges will be dependent on moisture content of the wooden substructure.

I don't remember who had a wall replaced, but they had eternabonded the entire roof membrane to awning strip down both sides of the camper and then had to have a wall replaced. When they did the wall replacement, they had the same concern. The eternabond was left in tact and no issues.