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Adding Insulation to Reflection 5th Wheel Underbelly

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  • Adding Insulation to Reflection 5th Wheel Underbelly

    Reflections, Imagines and Transcends do not have batt insulation directly above the underbelly cover (as do Solitudes and Momentums). The early Reflection models have a reflective foil sheet laid loosely above the coroplast. Later models have the reflective layer built into the coroplast. On the early models, the reflective sheet ends at the water tank above the axles, so there is no additional insulation (other than what is in the floor structure) in the back half of the trailer.

    As part of my various "underbelly projects" I added sheets of 1" thick closed cell rigid foam insulation, as tightly fitted as possible to frames added directly above the coroplast. This retains heat around the tanks better than the foil and makes the interior floor warmer under foot. Details in the attached.

    Rob
    Attached Files
    Last edited by howson; 01-07-2022, 06:48 PM.
    Cate & Rob
    (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
    2015 Reflection 303RLS
    2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
    Bayham, Ontario, Canada

  • #2
    Really nice Rob.

    How much fun did you have re-installing the reflective sheet? Is there a safe contact glue that could be used to bond the reflective sheet to the coroplast?

    This would another great improvement for my Imagine.

    Jim

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by MidwestCamper View Post
      Really nice Rob.

      How much fun did you have re-installing the reflective sheet? Is there a safe contact glue that could be used to bond the reflective sheet to the coroplast?

      This would another great improvement for my Imagine.

      Jim
      Hi Jim,

      The foil sheet followed the coroplast back into place forward of the axles without a problem and was not there in the first place aft of the axles. In hindsight, it might have been better to use the rigid foam insulation that has foil on one side, rather than the pink version that I used. (Didn't think of that at the time) . . . I do wonder how much the foil contributes to keeping the underbelly warm.

      Rob
      Cate & Rob
      (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
      2015 Reflection 303RLS
      2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
      Bayham, Ontario, Canada

      Comment


      • #4
        Rob,

        I wonder if this is their attempt at a moisture barrier as well. I was curious if the foil material could be bonded to the coroplast to aid in putting it back into place for areas that it was present.

        Jim

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by MidwestCamper View Post
          Rob,

          I wonder if this is their attempt at a moisture barrier as well. I was curious if the foil material could be bonded to the coroplast to aid in putting it back into place for areas that it was present.

          Jim
          Jim, I'm going to start dropping my underbelly tomorrow. Attaching the reflective liner to the coroplast is one of my plans. I'll let you know how it works out.

          Jim
          Jim and Ginnie
          2024 Solitude 310GK
          GDRV Technical Forum Moderator
          GDRV Rally Support Coordinator

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by TucsonJim View Post

            Jim, I'm going to start dropping my underbelly tomorrow. Attaching the reflective liner to the coroplast is one of my plans. I'll let you know how it works out.

            Jim
            Jim,

            It will be interesting what you come up with since this could make removing and installing the coroplast much easier.

            Jim

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by MidwestCamper View Post

              Jim,

              It will be interesting what you come up with since this could make removing and installing the coroplast much easier.

              Jim
              Jim, so I started this afternoon. I had to get the stabilizers, rear receiver and gas lines out of the way first. Then I dropped the coroplast from the rear to the axles. On my 2017 (October 2016 build), there is zero insulation in this area. I can see the reflective barrier just forward of the axles. I'm going to try and remove the rest of the liner tomorrow.

              So for "insulation" of the aft section of the trailer, I have the coroplast, about 10" of air space, a water proof vaper barrier, 3/4" OSB, and finally the vinyl flooring. How they can calculate an R-value of 30 for the main floor baffles me. In this next pic, you can see the reflective film starting forward of the axles. I was very surprised at how thin this material is when I touched it. It's very similar to aluminum foil that you cook with. In the photo, you can see the blue water line that goes to the rear sprayer port. It was uninsulated, and was making direct contact with the belly liner. I'll reroute it closer to the floor and wrap it with foam pipe insulation before I seal everything back up.

              Click image for larger version

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              Foil Barrier staring forward of the axles.

              As an aside, you can see I have some AC, DC and cable wiring to clean up before I put it all back together:

              Click image for larger version

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              Spaghetti Mess

              Jim



              Jim and Ginnie
              2024 Solitude 310GK
              GDRV Technical Forum Moderator
              GDRV Rally Support Coordinator

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by TucsonJim View Post

                So for "insulation" of the aft section of the trailer, I have the coroplast, about 10" of air space, a water proof vaper barrier, 3/4" OSB, and finally the vinyl flooring. How they can calculate an R-value of 30 for the main floor baffles me.
                Hi Jim,

                There should also be either batt or foam insulation within the spaces of the aluminum floor frame. The OSB and vinyl are on top of this frame. The vapor barrier visible from underneath is on the bottom of this frame.

                In the R-value calculation, they ignore the affect of the aluminum frame transferring heat from one side to the other. Same as the claimed wall R-values. The roof is a little better because the frame structure is wood. Of course, the vapor barrier is supposed to be on the "warm" side of the insulation so putting this on the under side of the floor structure is backwards in the first place.

                Rob
                Cate & Rob
                (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
                2015 Reflection 303RLS
                2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                Bayham, Ontario, Canada

                Comment


                • #9
                  When I dropped mine I used gorilla tape to attach my foil back to the coroplast to make it easier to get into place when I put it back up. Seemed to work fine. This is making me want to drop it again and put the foam in though lol. The back half of my rig is always cold, and in particular my sons bunkroom.
                  Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.​

                  Neil Citro
                  2018 Reflection 28BH Pepwave
                  2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ncitro View Post
                    When I dropped mine I used gorilla tape to attach my foil back to the coroplast to make it easier to get into place when I put it back up. Seemed to work fine. This is making me want to drop it again and put the foam in though lol. The back half of my rig is always cold, and in particular my sons bunkroom.
                    Neil

                    I am going to add the insulation as well while at my underneath projects. I am going to look at trying to put the insulation up against the floor if possible.

                    Brian
                    Brian & Michelle
                    2018 Reflection 29RS
                    2022 Chevy 3500HD

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post

                      Hi Jim,

                      There should also be either batt or foam insulation within the spaces of the aluminum floor frame. The OSB and vinyl are on top of this frame. The vapor barrier visible from underneath is on the bottom of this frame.

                      In the R-value calculation, they ignore the affect of the aluminum frame transferring heat from one side to the other. Same as the claimed wall R-values. The roof is a little better because the frame structure is wood. Of course, the vapor barrier is supposed to be on the "warm" side of the insulation so putting this on the under side of the floor structure is backwards in the first place.

                      Rob
                      Rob,

                      There is no foam or batt insulation. I'm looking at a hole in the vapor barrier and it is directly attached to the OSB.

                      I'm confused.

                      Jim
                      Jim and Ginnie
                      2024 Solitude 310GK
                      GDRV Technical Forum Moderator
                      GDRV Rally Support Coordinator

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by TucsonJim View Post
                        There is no foam or batt insulation. I'm looking at a hole in the vapor barrier and it is directly attached to the OSB.
                        Jim,
                        The floors in our Reflection travel trailers are similar in construction to how the walls are constructed. In fact I think it's the exact same process. There is foam inserted between aluminum studs overlaid by laminate. The picture below is a hole in the floor behind my water heater. The arrow points to the foam. 5th wheels do not have this foam.

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                        In other words what we have is completely different from the 5vrs. They have plywood laid right over the frame, with batt insulation underneath. Frankly I like how our floors are constructed better than the (much more expensive) large 5th wheels. I distinctly remember looking at every model line's floor construction when we were walking the production lines.

                        While adding insulation under the floor may help in your Reflection, I don't think it will have as much benefit as in Rob's trailer. (I could be wrong.) Plugging all of the open holes in the floor will help. (Anywhere something penetrates the floor there's a much larger hole--uninsulated--that should be dealt with.) Mine were behind the electric fireplace, under the island (water/drain line hole) and behind the water heater as shown above.

                        Howard
                        Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                        2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          howson

                          My Reflection fifth wheel has the same floor as your TT does.

                          Click image for larger version

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                          Brian
                          Brian & Michelle
                          2018 Reflection 29RS
                          2022 Chevy 3500HD

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Country Campers View Post
                            howson

                            My Reflection fifth wheel has the same floor as your TT does.

                            Click image for larger version

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                            Brian
                            Well isn't that interesting! As usual, apparently there's no absolute with these trailers.

                            All I can say for certain is everything I looked at while touring the plant had the configuration of either laminate floor or plywood. Reflection may be the exception? (I wonder about the new Momentum TTs...)

                            Ah well, just when I think I know something I am reminded yet again how much there is to learn. Thanks for the pic, Brian.
                            Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                            2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Just to add the similar photo from my 2015 303RLS. (Photo also included in the attachment to post 1)
                              I am surprised at the Reflection 5th wheel different structure between my '15 303 and Brian's '18 29RS.

                              Rob

                              Click image for larger version

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                              Cate & Rob
                              (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
                              2015 Reflection 303RLS
                              2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                              Bayham, Ontario, Canada

                              Comment

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