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  • Dual Pane vs. Single Pane Window Weight

    Over the years, I've seen lots of posts on the benefits/drawbacks of dual pane windows when compared to single pane. Quite often, window weight is addressed as part of these discussions. I've seen posts that say you'll add several hundred pounds. So I was curious how much weight it would have added if my travel trailer had been equipped with dual pane windows.

    Can someone please double check my calculations and assumptions to see if this sounds correct.

    Model: 2017 GDRV Reflection 297RSTS Travel Trailer.

    Window sizes:

    20" x 22" (3 each) = 1,320 square inches
    13" x 34" (1 each) = 442 square inches
    26" x 34" (2 each) = 1,768 square inches
    27" x 22" (2 each) = 1,188 square inches
    34" x 45" (2 each) = 3,060 square inches
    20" x 27" (1 each) = 540 square inches
    Total 8,318 square inches

    8,318 sq in/144 sq in = 57.76 square feet

    1/8" Tempered safety glass = 1.62 pounds per sq ft. (Note: glass thickness was measured with a caliper)

    57.76 sq ft x 1.62 pounds = 93.6 pounds.


    So I'd anticipate that my trailer would have gained 93.6# if I'd gone with dual pane windows. Plus, there may be a little added weight for larger mounting channels and hardware.

    Does this sound about right? If so, it might be a good baseline for trying to calculate how much added weight DP windows may add. A larger fifth wheel would probably add a little more weight if it had more glass. Maybe a good round number would be 100 to 125 pounds of extra weight for dual pane windows?

    (Note: Please keep this thread focused on window weight and not other attributes of various window types).

    Jim

    Jim and Ginnie
    2024 Solitude 310GK
    GDRV Technical Forum Moderator
    GDRV Rally Support Coordinator

  • #2
    TucsonJim ,
    LCI's 3000 series windows are available in single and dual pane versions. I searched but could not find weight specifications for (any) Lippert windows. To confirm your data it would be interesting to ask Lippert for the weight difference in a 3000PW ("Picture Window", or no vent so all glass) single and dual pane 3000 window in a couple of different sizes.

    Click image for larger version

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    Pic from PDF at https://lci-support-doc.s3.amazonaws...cd-0003380.pdf
    Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

    2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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    • #3
      I like fact based decision. ... I had a lengthy diatribe about virtues of dual pane, then I reread you caveat about restricting the discussion to weight.... bummer it was a good rant....

      Anyway, to me, the weight is worth it...
      2017 Momentum 376, 2019 Ford F450
      2022 Triumph Scrambler Motorcycle
      E-bikes, Hobi Pedal Kayaks
      Kota the dog and KC the Kitty Cat

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      • #4
        Originally posted by d2reid View Post
        I like fact based decision. ... I had a lengthy diatribe about virtues of dual pane, then I reread you caveat about restricting the discussion to weight.... bummer it was a good rant....

        Anyway, to me, the weight is worth it...
        Dallas - We'll have to have that discussion over a cold beer if we ever have another Vegas rally...

        Jim
        Jim and Ginnie
        2024 Solitude 310GK
        GDRV Technical Forum Moderator
        GDRV Rally Support Coordinator

        Comment


        • #5
          You need to add in the rate of failure , which is very high and very expensive . I was in the glass business for 47 years and have had RV's with both single and dual pane windows . I will never have dual panes again . The air space is so small , it barely makes a difference .

          Comment


          • #6
            Helping buffalobill to keep within the guidelines set up by the OP; when the dual pane windows fail moisture will get in between the glass, this adds maybe a 1/4 oz weight to the RV.
            2017 Momentum 376, 2019 Ford F450
            2022 Triumph Scrambler Motorcycle
            E-bikes, Hobi Pedal Kayaks
            Kota the dog and KC the Kitty Cat

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by d2reid View Post
              Helping buffalobill to keep within the guidelines set up by the OP; when the dual pane windows fail moisture will get in between the glass, this adds maybe a 1/4 oz weight to the RV.
              I see what you did there lol
              Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.​

              Neil Citro
              2018 Reflection 28BH Pepwave
              2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

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              • #8
                Originally posted by d2reid View Post
                Helping buffalobill to keep within the guidelines set up by the OP; when the dual pane windows fail moisture will get in between the glass, this adds maybe a 1/4 oz weight to the RV.
                Thanks Dallas. I now have a mouth full of IPA (.79 oz.) on my computer monitor.

                Jim
                Jim and Ginnie
                2024 Solitude 310GK
                GDRV Technical Forum Moderator
                GDRV Rally Support Coordinator

                Comment


                • #9
                  If I were in the market for dual pane windows, weight would be a factor and so would the rate of failure. Even if the gap is narrow, this gap would still function as a thermal break. Curious also if the dual pane windows use thinner glass to keep the weight down? What is the failure mode? Broken glass due to it being thinner or a seal failure?

                  buffalobill Would you have answers to these questions?

                  Jim

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MidwestCamper View Post
                    If I were in the market for dual pane windows, weight would be a factor and so would the rate of failure. Even if the gap is narrow, this gap would still function as a thermal break. Curious also if the dual pane windows use thinner glass to keep the weight down? What is the failure mode? Broken glass due to it being thinner or a seal failure?

                    buffalobill Would you have answers to these questions?

                    Jim
                    when an insulated pane fails the additional weight is a non factor . you simply can't see through them . the glass is the same thickness [1/8 " air space only] .there are several reasons for failure . Dark glass causes heat build up , melts butyl sealant ,film on inside , same reason , twisting of the RV going down the road .

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Just watched a YouTube video of a Grand Design factory tour and the tour guide said double pane glass is simply two panes of glass laid
                      against each other which will help keep fogging down. He said they are not true insulated glass because the vibration and movement would cause these type of windows to quickly fail.

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                      • #12
                        Well from feedback it looks like the increase in mass would be the addition of the second pane since the the glass thickness between the two types are identical. The lack of an inert gas and a seal that can sustain motion would be a concern, but if I were spending a great deal of time in the cold, I would still opt for them and hope for the best. Early and late season camping for us is not an issue since the furnace coming on in the mornings will dissipate the humidity through an open roof vent in a hour or so. But at sub-zero and full timing? It would be an issue for us to have SPWs.

                        Jim

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Luvnlife View Post
                          Just watched a YouTube video of a Grand Design factory tour and the tour guide said double pane glass is simply two panes of glass laid
                          against each other which will help keep fogging down. He said they are not true insulated glass because the vibration and movement would cause these type of windows to quickly fail.
                          See this related discussion https://gdrvowners.com/forum/exterio...azed-insulated . . . particularly post 11 where Second Chance Rob has discussed this directly with LCI. I think I would go with this description of an air gap between the panes but not filled with an inert gas.

                          Rob
                          Cate & Rob
                          (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
                          2015 Reflection 303RLS
                          2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                          Bayham, Ontario, Canada

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by MidwestCamper View Post
                            The lack of ... a seal that can sustain motion would be a concern...
                            Jim,
                            There's a seal. I have no idea what "marine grade urethane" is or how it compares to a residential window seal (or a truck window seal), but it's something!

                            Below is a snip from LCI documentation:

                            Click image for larger version

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                            Howard
                            Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                            2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by howson View Post

                              Jim,
                              There's a seal. I have no idea what "marine grade urethane" is or how it compares to a residential window seal (or a truck window seal), but it's something!

                              Below is a snip from LCI documentation:

                              Click image for larger version  Name:	seal.JPG Views:	0 Size:	35.5 KB ID:	42449

                              Howard
                              Thanks Howard,

                              There is a spacer most likely and may somewhat seal. This is the reason they do not use an inert gas in them since they may leak, but still insulate since air still provides some insulating value. If I had these available in the Imagine and we were traveling in very cold climates, I would have purchased them.
                              Since we look for warm weather and enjoy the cooler conditions only in the early and late season, we really do not need them.

                              The window panes are bonded together with a urethane adhesive. Urethane is also used to hold the windshields in our vehicles.

                              https://www.bostik.com/canada/en_US/...a/product-920/

                              https://www.amazon.com/3M-08693-Uret.../dp/B000RW1XCK

                              Jim
                              Last edited by Guest; 02-10-2021, 10:42 AM.

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