Side Wall Bulging

[ncitro]

I took a stab at a subforum, feel free to move this if you think it belongs somewhere else.

We have a bulge on the side wall of the rig, drivers side just in front of the bedroom slide. There is also a crack on the interior wall, although this is somewhat higher than the bulge is in the wall. We have been reading up on this failure, and while I do not see much reference to this issue in Grand Design, it does seem to be somewhat common with Lippert Frames. I suspect a weld has broken where the wall is attached to the floor. We have reached out to Grand Design to see about bringing it in for repair, but other than an initial response where we got a case number and we were asked to email photos we have heard nothing. We have tried calling back a couple times today, we waited on hold for 45 minutes before being transferred to a voicemail for someone whose message said they were off all week. I know things are crazy over there right now between Covid and the massive increase in units going out, and I hate to be the squeaky wheel but was wondering if it would be appropriate to tag in Emily or Meagan (cannot remember who is responsible for Reflection) to see if they can move things forward a little. I am located pretty close to the factory (about three hours) so for something as complex as I anticipate this to be I would really prefer to get it into the factory service center rather than my dealer. I realize its going to be a wait to get an appointment, but would like to get on the books anyway. My VIN is in my profile, and I can provide the case number if needed.

In addition to that I would be curious what everyone here thinks, obviously the answer is going to be to open up the wall and see whats going on, and I assume there is not much I can do. It does not seem to be wet or spongy, I can push it back into place by hand but it does not rest there. I have sealed up the bulge with silicone the best I can to prevent water intrusion. I am under weight, and using a GooseBox, so should be no frame issues there, I am hoping it is just a bad weld. I am curious what the repair is, since the fiberglass and gelcoat seem to be intact I would assume they would open up the wall from the inside?

Here are the pictures we sent to GD.

Thanks everyone!

[Steve7]

Seems I also recall similar issues, cracks in that location maybe on the Solitudes a few years back? And I think it had to do with a weld issue in the Lipert frame.

[Cate&Rob]

Hi Neil,

I would agree with your theory that this is caused by a broken frame . . . although this might more likely be a weld in the aluminum frame of the sidewall. I would also agree that the only place that can fix this correctly is the factory service center. They are in a world of confusion right now for all the reasons you list, but keep trying to reach them.

Rob

[Canyonlight]

Neil - the "separation tear" of the interior wall is an ominous sign of something serious. Are the frame cracking issues you reference all occurring in that "relief" strip area from what you have seen out there in various social media ? Certain lines/models or more random ?

I was concerned about possible frame issues when our walls had to be replaced in spring of 2018. In communications with Jerry then, he shared that frame issues in general and on 303s were very very rare. Val in the service area kept me in the loop and confirmed that our rig did not have any frame issues.

Sure hope GDRV takes good care of you as an "outstanding support customer" of the GDRV product, team, etc. They have a pretty darn good track record of "doing the right thing" where appropriate to do so. I'm sure you will keep us posted.

Dan

[ncitro]

The ones I ran across were in a Montana forum, and usually had an exterior crack in the fiberglass. I’m assuming that since ours happened near the seam in the wall, that’s all that saved us from an exterior crack. It certainly seems like a broken weld where the wall meets the floor.

I’m ashamed to say the interior crack has been there a little while. When I first saw it I assumed something had gotten stuck between the wall and the slide out that punctured the paneling. Figuring (probably more hoping) this was only cosmetic I put it out of mind. It was some months later that I noticed the bulge on the outside and connected the dots that there was something more serious going on.

[openrangeowners]

If you look at another manufacturer forum (Open Range Owners) you will see a series of posts from people having a similar issue - in those cases, there is movement in the base of the upper floor area when hitched up - caused by either broken welds or not enough metal bracing (in the case of Open Range) allowing for front end flexing thus leading to cracks in the exterior where the relief piece is. Here is a link to a long thread .... https://www.openrangeowners.com/ORfo...hp?f=86&t=1482

We never experienced this with our prior Open Range 5th wheel, but I do know of a friend that did ... he is part of the thead.

[ncitro]

If you look at another manufacturer forum (Open Range Owners) you will see a series of posts from people having a similar issue - in those cases, there is movement in the base of the upper floor area when hitched up - caused by either broken welds or not enough metal bracing (in the case of Open Range) allowing for front end flexing thus leading to cracks in the exterior where the relief piece is. Here is a link to a long thread .... https://www.openrangeowners.com/ORfo...hp?f=86&t=1482

We never experienced this with our prior Open Range 5th wheel, but I do know of a friend that did ... he is part of the thead.

Thanks I will review it. Heard back from Grand Design today, they are forwarding it to the technical team but they are having a hard time diagnosing it with photos. I don't doubt they will need to see it first hand, that's why I just want an appointment to bring it in. I know they're really slammed there but I can't help but feel like they've grown too much too fast to continue the level of customer service that got them to where they are.

[ncitro]

Just an update, we have played a bit of phone tag but today had a conversation a regional service manager at GD. She initially told us that everyone there was unable to diagnose our problem and we should take it to the dealer (despite all of our communications thus far making it clear we wanted an appointment at the factory service center), but after talking some more and pointing out that we live only a few hours from the factory, everyone agreed that was the best course of action. Unfortunately she was unable to make us a service appointment as it would take two to three days to hear back from service on when they were scheduling out to. Not sure why, but hopefully by the end of the week we should have an appointment at least. I will keep everyone updated on how things go.

[Cate&Rob]

ncitro

Good to learn that this is "progressing" more/less in the right direction . . . it shouldn't be this difficult.

Rob

[ncitro]

ncitro

Good to learn that this is "progressing" more/less in the right direction . . . it shouldn't be this difficult.

Rob

I agree, I had always heard such good things about the GD customer service experience, but I have been unimpressed so far. I realize its busy there and things are crazy with Covid, but once we have made contact with someone and made it "through the queue" if you will, I would have expected better communication. It seems like its on us to take the initiative at every turn.

[howson]

I agree, I had always heard such good things about the GD customer service experience, but I have been unimpressed so far. I realize its busy there and things are crazy with Covid, but once we have made contact with someone and made it "through the queue" if you will, I would have expected better communication. It seems like its on us to take the initiative at every turn.

It does seem like if you "want grease" ya "gotta squeak", to rephrase the old metaphor...

[Guest]

I certainly appreciate what GDRV did for us in replacing a delaminating wall, but make sure you spend plenty of time there to inspect the completed work. I had to go over some items that were on the repair list and still need to straighten a crooked gutter that dumps water onto the slide roof. There is also that old adage, "do it right the first time".

[Cate&Rob]

ncitro howson Guest

I agree with and have experienced all of the above. We have been back to the factory service center several times (for different issues). As a bit of a "historical perspective" . . . in the early years the factory service center was operating out of a remote rented warehouse, but volume of repairs (and total sales) was much lower. They had very little to work with, but this was when/where they established their (deserved) reputation for customer service. Since then, Grand Design has spent millions on a world class on-site factory service center, but their sales volume and thus the requirement for factory service has grown exponentially. Neil: There is nothing unique about you needing to (politely) keep on them about addressing your concerns . . . this is just the current state of the RV business.

To the question of "why is the factory service center so busy?" . . . a large portion of their workload is factory repair of "damaged in transit" trailers. No fault of the manufacturing process or build quality . . . just part of the business. BTW . . . you can be sure that a damaged new unit repaired at the factory service center using all new production parts, leaves there in new condition.

Rob

[ncitro]

Update here, Grand Design has stepped up in a big way. We had to stay on them and spent a lot of time on hold, but we now have an appointment for March 25, and have been told the work will be covered even though we are out of warranty as a goodwill gesture. Sounds like they most likely will be replacing the wall. I am beyond ecstatic that they have gotten us in so quickly and will be covering the repair. Thank you to everyone here including Mariah who I know has reached out to our service rep to keep the ball moving along. While I think it could have been handled more efficiently, I am glad to see that the results are still there for Grand Designs customer service team.

I will keep you all updated on the repair, but based on what I have heard about the service center I am sure it will come back better than when it was new.

[Canyonlight]

Update here, Grand Design has stepped up in a big way. We had to stay on them and spent a lot of time on hold, but we now have an appointment for March 25, and have been told the work will be covered even though we are out of warranty as a goodwill gesture. Sounds like they most likely will be replacing the wall. I am beyond ecstatic that they have gotten us in so quickly and will be covering the repair. Thank you to everyone here including Mariah who I know has reached out to our service rep to keep the ball moving along. While I think it could have been handled more efficiently, I am glad to see that the results are still there for Grand Designs customer service team.

I will keep you all updated on the repair, but based on what I have heard about the service center I am sure it will come back better than when it was new.

Neil - great to hear that GDRV will be taking care of you......a wonderful unofficial ambassador (as many here are and have been for years) for the company ! I'm sure there are a few other things that will need attention and suspect that GDRV will be more than happy to take care of those for you. They will also take care of anything that they find which was a pleasant and much appreciated surprise for many of us who had the Factory CS Center work on our rigs. And, you are right.......it will probably be better than new in many ways.

Are they picking it up or are you delivering it and picking up when done ?

Dan