Bowed awning and striped back channel screws repair

[Yoda]

Keith and Rob,
I've finally got around to starting the repairs that have been mention in this thread. But first I would like to ask if there is any structural wall plans for my 303rls available for download. My # is in my profile. I was looking for the structural bracing behind the outside layer but the awning arm support was attracting the magnet to much to get a good feeling about what is there. I've gone over all of my fasteners on both of the awnings and most have been striped at installation and/or missed the support behind it in MO. So I want to ask is there a easy way to remove the FRTA from the arm assemblies without removing it from the awning rail? Just curious because after I practiced on the door holder, which was held on by two small screws and two rivets, of course the screws had pulled out and had rusted before and just a matter of time before the bottom rivets pulled out. The need for more room to install the plus-nuts and safety from winds. Didn't take a before picture should have, but if you enlarge you can see how the outside surface is cracked around the bottom two prior to installation. Still going to water proof it better. Any other suggestions would be welcomed on this endeavor.

howson TucsonJim

I copied Jim and Howard on your structural plans need. However on most models there is only the thin steel sheet mentioned above that was bonded to the wall.
Not sure what the FRTA is but everything comes apart on the awning rails. You just need to provide support. I used my ladder, but HD has numerous long poles that can be locked in various positions.

Hope this helps
Keith

[Cate&Rob]

Jbandtbone
Hi John,

There are no aluminum sidewall frames directly behind the awning attachment points. As “odd” as this sounds, the awnings are secured to the sidewall skin, reinforced with EGS (electro galvanized steel) bonded to the back of the exterior skin. The exterior walls contain rigid foam insulation, making expanding anchors sometimes difficult to install, although this can be done as described earlier in this thread.

If you contact Grand Design Customer Service directly, they will likely send you a sidewall drawing which will confirm the above. If you can catch just the right weather conditions, the dew pattern in the morning will confirm where the wall frames are (and are not). The magnet test (with awning removed) will confirm the EGS locations.

Rob

[Jbandtbone]

Keith and Rob,
I finished my bottom half of my awnings today. I'm not sure if I should post pictures or not but this should help someone else. The job started out with me thinking the fasteners were striped out by the 800lbs gorilla with a screw gun at the factory and/or dealer. But that was not the case. I have a 10 foot and a 13.5 foot awnings. Out of the four locations on the bottom half of each of the arms: All 16 fasteners were striped out, On the 10 footer which is on the slide the bottom fasteners missed the reinforced with EGS (electro galvanized steel) bonded to the back of the exterior skin by 4" plus low .
The magnet is at the bottom of said galvanizing. So I can understand why these were stiped. But that was just the beginning. On to the left side of the awning I ran into this.
So now I'm thinking that it wasn't the 800lbs gorilla, but the self tapers wallowing out the holes. Again I can understand that. Wrong installation setup? NOPE it gets better yet. I now move on the 13.5 footer. And this is the winner winner chicken dinner for the day.
Now I don't know what to think, maybe my rig was made on a MONDAY! My next pic is of my fix at this location. I have installed one of plusnut inserts and have placed my test insert to find my wall thickness to show how I bridged the extra hole gap. Also placed some loctite super glue gel to fill in the extra space.
Now The last one that I worked on today told me what happened on that fateful day at the factory/ dealer, when they butchered the install of the awnings. Funny thing is you couldn't have asked for better drilled holes. The self tapers were not rusted as bad as the others were. I was so Surprised that I forgot to take any pictures of the holes. Before or after.

Tapers on the top left are the ones from the last location. So in conclusion it was the original sealant, or lack of that cause most of the fasteners to rust out due to moisture intrusion. Not the installers, but I can't call them certified techs; because evidently In My HUMBLED Opinion they installed the one with all the holes drilled good and then proceeded to install the rest of the arms out of plumb and had to go back and adjust them, I just can't say they fixed them because they didn't try to fill the gaps. That can only explain why the extra holes had to be self taped again and or wallowed out. And if you are wondering. Yes I installed the plusnut even in the good holes!!
This is what they put on the back of the channel I put two pcs. of flex seal, one on the rig and one on the back of channel. Every one of the inserts drew up tight and with the unusually warm temps. in So. Fl. this week the flex seal is soft and pliable. Hopefully no moister intrusion from now on. Both of the awnings extend and retract much smoother and quieter and retract fully now. But, I know that I still have two of top tapers striped/rusted out on the right arm. At least one per top attachment on the rest of the arms. Keith when I mentioned the FTRA in the above post, that is the fabric roller. I feel that if it can removed safely and placed on top of the slide and or roof. The above fix could be done on those as well. Any ideas or recommendations would be helpful. I love my 303 RLS but the issues that I have found while doing maintenance on the rig with other non quality applications done by the suppliers that should have been nipped in the bud is wearing on me. But that is for another post. Thank you gentlemen for your wisdom. I hope this helps and gets someone's attention. It might never have happened or come to my attention if they had put the butyl rubber tape between the backing channel and the trailer to seal the new holes when installing. I used the same plusnut inserts that, Keith used. But I used a 3/4 " S10-320 flange head machine screw, instead of 1", scared of running out of room. And I used the 17/64" drill bit and used a little sand paper on the inserts sharp edges to get a really good snug fit in most of the holes. Sorry for the long winded version.

[Yoda]

Keith and Rob,
I finished my bottom half of my awnings today. I'm not sure if I should post pictures or not but this should help someone else. The job started out with me thinking the fasteners were striped out by the 800lbs gorilla with a screw gun at the factory and/or dealer. But that was not the case. I have a 10 foot and a 13.5 foot awnings. Out of the four locations on the bottom half of each of the arms: All 16 fasteners were striped out, On the 10 footer which is on the slide the bottom fasteners missed the reinforced with EGS (electro galvanized steel) bonded to the back of the exterior skin by 4" plus low .
The magnet is at the bottom of said galvanizing. So I can understand why these were stiped. But that was just the beginning. On to the left side of the awning I ran into this.
So now I'm thinking that it wasn't the 800lbs gorilla, but the self tapers wallowing out the holes. Again I can understand that. Wrong installation setup? NOPE it gets better yet. I now move on the 13.5 footer. And this is the winner winner chicken dinner for the day.
Now I don't know what to think, maybe my rig was made on a MONDAY! My next pic is of my fix at this location. I have installed one of plusnut inserts and have placed my test insert to find my wall thickness to show how I bridged the extra hole gap. Also placed some loctite super glue gel to fill in the extra space.
Now The last one that I worked on today told me what happened on that fateful day at the factory/ dealer, when they butchered the install of the awnings. Funny thing is you couldn't have asked for better drilled holes. The self tapers were not rusted as bad as the others were. I was so Surprised that I forgot to take any pictures of the holes. Before or after.

Tapers on the top left are the ones from the last location. So in conclusion it was the original sealant, or lack of that cause most of the fasteners to rust out due to moisture intrusion. Not the installers, but I can't call them certified techs; because evidently In My HUMBLED Opinion they installed the one with all the holes drilled good and then proceeded to install the rest of the arms out of plumb and had to go back and adjust them, I just can't say they fixed them because they didn't try to fill the gaps. That can only explain why the extra holes had to be self taped again and or wallowed out. And if you are wondering. Yes I installed the plusnut even in the good holes!!
This is what they put on the back of the channel I put two pcs. of flex seal, one on the rig and one on the back of channel. Every one of the inserts drew up tight and with the unusually warm temps. in So. Fl. this week the flex seal is soft and pliable. Hopefully no moister intrusion from now on. Both of the awnings extend and retract much smoother and quieter and retract fully now. But, I know that I still have two of top tapers striped/rusted out on the right arm. At least one per top attachment on the rest of the arms. Keith when I mentioned the FTRA in the above post, that is the fabric roller. I feel that if it can removed safely and placed on top of the slide and or roof. The above fix could be done on those as well. Any ideas or recommendations would be helpful. I love my 303 RLS but the issues that I have found while doing maintenance on the rig with other non quality applications done by the suppliers that should have been nipped in the bud is wearing on me. But that is for another post. Thank you gentlemen for your wisdom. I hope this helps and gets someone's attention. It might never have happened or come to my attention if they had put the butyl rubber tape between the backing channel and the trailer to seal the new holes when installing. I used the same plusnut inserts that, Keith used. But I used a 3/4 " S10-320 flange head machine screw, instead of 1", scared of running out of room. And I used the 17/64" drill bit and used a little sand paper on the inserts sharp edges to get a really good snug fit in most of the holes. Sorry for the long winded version.

John Great write up but none of the pictures came through. There is a limit of 5 per post. Glad it worked out for you.

[Jbandtbone]

Well then my story doesn't make to much sense without them. It's kind of funny, because I can see all of the pics on your reply post and mine post on my page. Is there a way to remove them and repost them?

[Jbandtbone]

@Keith and Rob,
I finished my bottom half of my awnings today. I'm not sure if I should post pictures or not but this should help someone else. The job started out with me thinking the fasteners were striped out by the 800lbs gorilla with a screw gun at the factory and/or dealer. But that was not the case. I have a 10 foot and a 13.5 foot awnings. Out of the four locations on the bottom half of each of the arms: All 16 fasteners were striped out, On the 10 footer which is on the slide the bottom fasteners missed the reinforced with EGS (electro galvanized steel) bonded to the back of the exterior skin by 4" plus low . The magnet is at the bottom of said galvanizing. So I can understand why these were stiped. But that was just the beginning. On to the left side of the awning I ran into this. The self tapers wallowing out the holes? Again I can understand that. Wrong installation setup? NOPE it gets better yet. I now move on the 13.5 footer.

[Jbandtbone]

The 13.5' awning holes. Now I don't know what to think! My next pic is of my fix at this location. I have installed one of plusnut inserts and have placed my test insert to find my wall thickness to show how I bridged the extra hole gap. Also placed some loctite super glue gel to fill in the extra space.

the fix

[Jbandtbone]

Now The last one that I worked on today told me what happened on that fateful day at the factory/ dealer, when they install of the awnings. Funny thing is you couldn't have asked for better drilled holes. The self tapers were not rusted as bad as the others were. I was so Surprised that I forgot to take any pictures of the holes. Before or after.
Tapers on the top left are the ones from the last location. So in conclusion it was the original sealant, or lack of that cause most of the fasteners to rust out due to moisture intrusion. Now I can't explain why one was installed with all the holes drilled good and then proceeded to install the rest of the arms out of plumb and had to go back and adjust them. That can only explain why the extra holes had to be self taped again and or wallowed out. And if you are wondering. Yes I installed the plusnut even in the good holes!!
This is what they put on the back of the channel I put two pcs. of flex seal, one on the rig and one on the back of channel. Every one of the inserts drew up tight and with the unusually warm temps. in So. Fl. this week the flex seal is soft and pliable. Hopefully no moister intrusion from now on. Both of the awnings extend and retract much smoother and quieter and retract fully now. But, I know that I still have two of top tapers striped/rusted out on the right arm. At least one per top attachment on the rest of the arms. Keith when I mentioned the FTRA in the above post, that is the fabric roller. I feel that if it can removed safely and placed on top of the slide and or roof. The above fix could be done on those as well. Any ideas or recommendations would be helpful. I love my 303 RLS but the issues that I have found while doing maintenance on the rig with other non quality applications done by the suppliers that should have been nipped in the bud is wearing on me. But that is for another post. Thank you gentlemen for your wisdom. I hope this helps and gets someone's attention. It might never have happened or come to my attention if they had put the butyl rubber tape between the backing channel and the trailer to seal the new holes when installing. I used the same plusnut inserts that, Keith used. But I used a 3/4 " S10-320 flange head machine screw, instead of 1", scared of running out of room. And I used the 17/64" drill bit and used a little sand paper on the inserts sharp edges to get a really good snug fit in most of the holes. Sorry for the long winded version.

[Guest]

Rusty bolts or screws indicate water is getting into the wall. Sad how these rigs are assembled. I will need to perform the same procedure this spring, along with correctly installing a sagging gutter.

Jim

[Yoda]

I'll try a few at a time. in the order of my write up.

The pictures worked this time. I noticed you drilled new holes beside the original. Did you fill them with epoxy. JB weld (putty) works great for that task. I also like the ladder trick to hold the arm up - where have I seen that before?

Nice job
Keith

[Cate&Rob]

Jbandtbone
Hi John,
See PM from me.
Rob

[Jbandtbone]

The pictures worked this time. I noticed you drilled new holes beside the original. Did you fill them with epoxy. JB weld (putty) works great for that task. I also like the ladder trick to hold the arm up - where have I seen that before?

Nice job
Keith

That is exactly as I found it. I only drilled with the 17/64" bit in the holes the screws came out of. Read my original post without the pics.

[Guest]

Yoda Keith,

I'm looking into a very small gap on my awning that only appears when its retracted. I called GDRV today who tells me the EGS is full length from the top to bottom. You may have posted this but did you determine the thickness of the wall skin including the EGS?

Jim

[Yoda]

Yoda Keith,

I'm looking into a very small gap on my awning that only appears when its retracted. I called GDRV today who tells me the EGS is full length from the top to bottom. You may have posted this but did you determine the thickness of the wall skin including the EGS?

Jim

The grip range on the plus nuts I used is .175-.320 I know its thin, probably less that 1/4 inch. The EGs is full height right behind the skin so you can probably add additional screws. I recommend pre-drill and us a standard sheet metal screw (not self drilling/tapping, no longer the 3/4" long. Be sure to seal around it before tightening down. You can pull one of the existing screws to check the thickness. Use a piece of wire bent at a 90 and insert and twist in the hole to remove the foam to get to the back of the egs, then mark the exterior and remove. Thats how I determined my plus nut range. I vaguely remember getting a 3/16 measurement.

Good luck
Keith

[Guest]

The grip range on the plus nuts I used is .175-.320 I know its thin, probably less that 1/4 inch. The EGs is full height right behind the skin so you can probably add additional screws. I recommend pre-drill and us a standard sheet metal screw (not self drilling/tapping, no longer the 3/4" long. Be sure to seal around it before tightening down. You can pull one of the existing screws to check the thickness. Use a piece of wire bent at a 90 and insert and twist in the hole to remove the foam to get to the back of the egs, then mark the exterior and remove. Thats how I determined my plus nut range. I vaguely remember getting a 3/16 measurement.

Good luck
Keith

Thank you Keith,

I've seen where GDRV are using rivets in making these repairs as well.

Jim