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Writeup of PDI Issues found - Curious to hear feedback

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  • Writeup of PDI Issues found - Curious to hear feedback

    Hi Everyone,

    I did a several hour PDI inspection yesterday on our new Imagine 2600RB. Paperwork / signing will be later today. I'm curious to hear feedback on the issues that I uncovered. I created a PDI checklist based on the list howson posted. I'll post mine later this week.

    The issue list is below. (Numbering didn't copy over). I have photos on dropbox but they're not yet available for public viewing. I can post pics here on individual issues if anyone is interested.

    My biggest issue is that the entry door fame has been badly dented/damaged from someone not being careful when stowing the entry steps. They must have really slammed it. Grrr. The door and frame will have to be replaced. I bought this off the lot, not a factory order.

    Other big issue is the roof AC - condensation runs across the roof and over the gutter onto the slide top. Is this normal? Pics attached. The butt joint in the middle of the gutter leaks - I saw that issue in someone else's post on this forum so I wasn't surprised.

    I've posted a couple of pics of the awning support not aligning well with the u-frame on the side of the RV since I'm curious for feedback about this. Does this look like it needs to be addressed?

    Thanks much, and thanks howson for the nice PDI checklist!

    Issues Discovered
    1. Entry Door Frame damaged (appears to be from improper step storage)
    1a. Door frame dented both sides. Entry steps have previously been slammed so hard against door frame that they have dented the door frame on both sides where the steps meet the frame. The entire door frame needs to be replaced. Photo: IMG_2446

    1b. Screen door doesn’t align with frame since it’s dented. There is a gap when the screen door is closed. Photo: IMG_2470

    1c. Screen door latch isn’t aligned with frame, not enough of the latch overlaps with door frame, so the screen doesn’t stay latched closed most times and can just be pushed open without the opening the door latch. Have to try multiple times to get screen door to latch and stay closed. No photo taken.
    1. Entry Door metal trim along floor damaged.2” wide Metal door threshold is held down by 3 screws.Two of the screws have had their screw heads sheared right off and the metal threshold is loose, only held on by one screw.Likely from the same incident with step storage as issue #1.Photos: IMG_2399, IMG_2400
    1. Entry steps.Extension foot - right hand side – doesn’t pivot freely, clogged up with dirt/crud.Needs to be cleared/cleaned.Photo: IMG_2389
    1. Entry door, exterior has sticker residue / dirt. Photo IMG_2382
    1. Entry screen door, scratch on exterior, approx. 3”.Photo: IMG_2478, IMG_2479
    1. Wheel skirts, slide side.Wheel skirt corners are not secured on slide side where they wrap under the side.Both the front and rear corners of the wheel skirt.The curb side has a screw at the skirt corner, slide side wheel skirt corners don’t.Photos: IMG_2340, IMG_2341, IMG_2342
    1. Slide, lower edge of rear back of slide.Metal slide trim molding is missing a screw and is bent.Rear lower edge of slide, when extended open.Photo: IMG_2423
    1. Slide gearing lubrication looks insufficient.Looks like it may not be greased or that is needs more.Photos: IMG_2375, IMG_2407
    1. Awning, front rail.Screw holding front U-rail against side is not set properly – not fully set and at an angle.Screw needs rebedding.Photo: IMG_2391
    1. Awning, rear and front U-rails. Gap between U-rail and exterior side, near top.Can see daylight between U-rail and side of RV.Definitely on the rear U-rail near top, looks like front U-rail near top too.No photo taken.
    1. Awning, rear support arm not properly aligned with U-rail.When retracking awning, rear support arm is not centered around U-rail.Makes contact as it is closing; this will wear over time.Would like this better aligned. Photos: IMG_2393, IMG_2394, IMG_2395
    1. Passthrough.Light switch on curb side is missing the rubber membrane that should cover the switch (like there is on the slide side light). No photo taken.
    1. Front cap hole for LED wiring needs silicon, on left side at bottom of LED strip were wiring goes though into cap.Not enough silicon sealing this hole.No photo taken.
    1. Front cap has 8” long scratch, not buffable.This is near the top of the of the cap, about 6” from where cap meets the roof.Visible / accessible from the roof.Photo: IMG_2441
    1. Roof – seal on top of fridge vent cap (or furnace?).There are four holes in top of this cap, likely for screwed.The holes are sealed with silicon.On one of them the silicon missed the hole, so the hole isn’t fully sealed.Photo: IMG_2426, IMG_2427
    1. Roof – bathroom vent cover is dented / pushed in.Photo: IMG_2512
    1. Roof – bathroom vent cover has a hole in it, about 1/8”-1/4”.Photo: IMG_2444.
    1. Roof – rear edge to roof seal has gaps.Curb side corner is worst.Other portions the seal is incomplete along the edge / doesn’t come to top of rear edge.Photo_IMG_2429.Video: IMG_2432
    1. Roof – AC.Lower rear edge has debris/crap on it.Needs to be cleaned and checked to make sure unit frame isn’t damaged.Photos: IMG_2436, IMG_2437, IMG_2440
    1. Roof – AC to roof seal has gaps, not butyl/silicon sealed.Appears to have a foam seal, but the foam doesn’t meet the roof as the roof curved slopes away.Leave more the 1/4” gap between foam and roof.Photo: IMG_2440.That is my finger in the photo.
    1. Roof AC condensation leak.AC Condensation runs along roof to the gutter.Seems excessive and there ought to be a condensation tray to catch this.IMG_2493, IMG_2494, IMG_2509, IMG_2510
    1. Gutter doesn’t catch the condensation, flows over onto the slide top.Unclear why.Photos: IMG_2496, IMG_2497, IMG_2507, IMG_2511
    1. Gutter butt joint leaks, runs down side of RV onto the topper.Photos: IMG_2502, IMG_2506
    1. Battery / tongue wiring.Wire along tongue with 30amp fuse is hanging loose.Needs a tie wrap to better secure it.IMG_2457
    1. Propane hose line to hot water heater is pinched.The last hose hanger clamp under the RV at the rear looks like it’s pinching the propane hose and flattening it.Photo: IMG_2466
    1. Window seals, exterior.Rear window in slide, bottom seal has a gap.IMG_2468
    1. Window seal, exterior.Curbside window forward of door.Seal not set fully in front corner, leaving gap.IMG_2469
    1. Sofabed, when extended for bed, legs are not flush with floor.At least a 2” gap from leg to floor.IMG_2490
    1. Bedroom window, forward track not secured (should be secured by screw at top of track).Window sticks when opening since track moves with the window.Not the emergency window.
    1. Shower, silicone seal questionable.Inside edge of shower pan as you step into the shower.Silicone seal is only at the corners, not along the entire length as you would expect.
    1. Bed storage, hydraulic lifts.Stuck open.Likely just a user error, need instruction.
    1. Stove burners not igniting.No ignition.Likely just a user error, need instruction.

    Joe
    Sailor_Joe, 2021 imagine 2600RB, 2017 Ford F-150, XLT super crew 3.5 eco boost with max tow.

  • #2
    That's quite a list. Glad the PDI checklist helped.

    Are all of the issues going to be fixed prior to signing? I'm surprised they could fix the door so quickly.

    Regarding the other questions--sorry, I'm not familiar enough to provide a knowledgeable response.

    Howard
    Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

    Howard, 2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

    Comment


    • #3
      I agree that is quite a list.

      I would not sign any papers until you are completely satisfied. After you sign they may take there sweet old time getting these items fixed because they already have your money. I am also surprised that your dealer would allow an RV with a damaged door to be sold , this at least should have been fixed before a potential buyer would have seen it. You also still have the chance to walk away from the deal up until you sign the papers.

      Brian
      Brian & Michelle
      2018 Reflection 29RS Oct.17 build date, EMS-HW50C , Lippert Remote
      2015 Chevy 3500HD CC LB Duramax , Reese Elite 18K

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Country Campers View Post
        I agree that is quite a list.

        I would not sign any papers until you are completely satisfied. After you sign they may take there sweet old time getting these items fixed because they already have your money. I am also surprised that your dealer would allow an RV with a damaged door to be sold , this at least should have been fixed before a potential buyer would have seen it. You also still have the chance to walk away from the deal up until you sign the papers.

        Brian
        100% Agree here, do not close until you are satisfied with the repairs. Do not accept an agreement that they will be fixed after closing or is likely to either never be fixed or take months. I would email them your list and ask that they be addressed before you return for closing.

        Neil Citro
        2018 Reflection 28bh
        2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

        Comment


        • #5
          Thus far all 3 of the campers I have owned had screen door latch issues. Seems like the latches are just too thin or they do not use shims to correct for door frame width (frames get deflected a bit when screwed to the wall). No one seems to go back and check the latch for proper engagement.

          I did not think Silicon was allowed on the roof? It should be a self leveling sealer. Hopefully that is what you are referring to.
          Tow Vehicle: 2018 GMC K2500 Denali Diesel
          Coach: 303RLS Delivered March 5, 2021

          Comment


          • #6
            I haven’t discussed any of this with the dealer yet. I did my inspection yesterday all the way until the dealership closed at 6pm, drove home and did my write up and emailed it to them about midnight. So we’ll see how it goes today.

            I still have some items I didn’t inspect yet so figured I’d get the rest of the inspection done and have my sit down with them after that.

            Cheers,
            Joe

            Sailor_Joe, 2021 imagine 2600RB, 2017 Ford F-150, XLT super crew 3.5 eco boost with max tow.

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi Joe,

              That’s quite a list! Some items are easily fixable but some are going to require new parts from Grand Design. The advice to get everything corrected before signing the deal is certainly the best way to go and might work in “normal business” times . . . but, the RV business is anything but normal right now. Dealers are having no problem selling every trailer they can get and manufacturers are in short supply for parts. Both of these things are going to work against you in taking a hard line with the dealer.

              It sounds like the door frame and entry stair issues are “show stoppers”. You will get a good read on this dealers service capability and willingness from how they respond to having to fix this.

              Rob
              Cate & Rob
              (with Border Collies Molly & Angel and their kitty Gracie)
              2015 Reflection 303RLS
              2014 Ecoboost F150 with Heavy Duty Payload Package
              Bayham, Ontario, Canada

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks everyone for the comments so far. Discussed with the DW this morning and I can let her do the push back with the dealer if needed :-)

                The big question I'd like feedback on is the AC. The condensation running across the roof seems bad. Is this normal? Doesn't seem like it to me. If so then I'd say it's a design flaw.. It's a Furrion AC. Has anyone else had this amount of AC condensation runoff, and is it supposed to just flow across the roof to the gutter?

                Also, the AC didn't have any of the soft white roof sealant around it. Instead has what seems like an inch thick foam type seal. And that didn't make complete contact with the roof. Again, is this as designed, to not use the soft white sealant around the AC? Here's a pic of the AC foam seal to roof gap. That's my finger in the photo. Is this normal too and just a bad design?

                Attached Files
                Sailor_Joe, 2021 imagine 2600RB, 2017 Ford F-150, XLT super crew 3.5 eco boost with max tow.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Sailor_Joe View Post
                  Thanks everyone for the comments so far. Discussed with the DW this morning and I can let her do the push back with the dealer if needed :-)

                  The big question I'd like feedback on is the AC. The condensation running across the roof seems bad. Is this normal? Doesn't seem like it to me. If so then I'd say it's a design flaw.. It's a Furrion AC. Has anyone else had this amount of AC condensation runoff, and is it supposed to just flow across the roof to the gutter?

                  Also, the AC didn't have any of the soft white roof sealant around it. Instead has what seems like an inch thick foam type seal. And that didn't make complete contact with the roof. Again, is this as designed, to not use the soft white sealant around the AC? Here's a pic of the AC foam seal to roof gap. That's my finger in the photo. Is this normal too and just a bad design?
                  I’ve never worked with a Furrion but I can tell you the Dometic and Coleman both dump the condensation on the roof and it just runs off the side. There’s normally no sealant, just the foam gasket. On the inside there’s four bolts that get tightened down and usually some amount of compression off the gasket is called for in the manual.

                  Neil Citro
                  2018 Reflection 28bh
                  2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Sailor_Joe From my understanding (and it makes a bit of sense) all roof top AC units use the foam gasket. If it were siliconed to the roof membrane, removal would be almost impossible. It may not be torqued down properly which is leading to the gap.

                    AC Condensation run off is just that, evaporator run off from the humidity its pulling out of the inside of the camper. The more humid the day, the more run off. I have filled a 5 gallon bucket in a day with run off. As to it running down on top of the slide, that sounds like a guttering issues. I thought most slide gutters were 1 piece, but I can see them using whatever is around to minimize waste. I have a makeshift down spout that I can connect to the ladder if needed b/c the water falling from 10" to the ground splashes and makes a mess, not to mention the small hole it pounds into the dirt, which compounds the explosive mess of dirt on everything.
                    Tow Vehicle: 2018 GMC K2500 Denali Diesel
                    Coach: 303RLS Delivered March 5, 2021

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      That is a long list. Some of those would be deal breakers. They would have to be repaired before I would sign anything. My comments on a couple of them. I know ordering one would be a long lead time. So these problems may give you some pretty good negotiating leverage. You should check to see when the unit was manufactured and see how long the unit has been on the lot.

                      We always have the front of our trailer a bit high otherwise the wife feels like she is sleeping down hill. Doing this also forces some of the A/C runoff to the back. You could also have the door side pitched up a tiny bit to have the water runoff go to the street side. Our A/C runoff seems to go down the gutter and off the drip spouts as designed.

                      As for 'grease' on the slide mechanisms. You really don't want a heavy grease on these. I use a dry lubricant on mine so they don't attract dirt and grime. While mine are lubricated you can't tell because there aren't globs of grease on them. Actually no grease, just dry lubricant.

                      Shower caulking. I have already replaced my lower shower enclosure caulking because what was used was yellowing and just didn't look like the bests quality for a shower.
                      Mike & Lisa
                      Central Florida
                      2021 Imagine 2970RL
                      1996 Chevy K3500 Crew SRW 7.4L Gas

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ncitro View Post

                        I’ve never worked with a Furrion but I can tell you the Dometic and Coleman both dump the condensation on the roof and it just runs off the side. There’s normally no sealant, just the foam gasket. On the inside there’s four bolts that get tightened down and usually some amount of compression off the gasket is called for in the manual.
                        x2 on Neil's comments WRT the AC unit. The condensation should be taken clear of the slide by the rain gutter . . . but, the trailer may not have been properly levelled on the dealer's lot. Ideally, the condensation should run across the roof to the left (street) side to stay away from the right (campsite) side . . . but, this is not always the case. Ours drips off the right rear corner (not ideal) and I have seen other same model units where it drips off the left rear corner. Seems to come down to exactly how the roof trusses were shaped in production that day.

                        Rob
                        Cate & Rob
                        (with Border Collies Molly & Angel and their kitty Gracie)
                        2015 Reflection 303RLS
                        2014 Ecoboost F150 with Heavy Duty Payload Package
                        Bayham, Ontario, Canada

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The condensation draining would be dependent on the location of the coil inside the A/C unit. Ours drains off of the door side rear , as others have stated. This would tell me that the condensate drain is located on the door side of the A/C and with the crown of the roof from side to side , being high in the middle , would most likely cause the water to drain off of that side. A TT's roof is flat front to back , fifth wheel is tapered , this does not help the water draining problem. Our previous TT did just about the same thing as the OP's. There was a small crack between the 2 pieces of gutter installed on the door side that allowed rain and A/C condensate to run down the wall , fixed this with a little silicone and always tried to pitch the RV towards the rear a little to help with draining.

                          Brian
                          Brian & Michelle
                          2018 Reflection 29RS Oct.17 build date, EMS-HW50C , Lippert Remote
                          2015 Chevy 3500HD CC LB Duramax , Reese Elite 18K

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Sailor_Joe
                            Personally with the issues you have discovered I would walk away. Sounds like the Dealer did not take care of it sitting on his lot. Is it a perfect match for you? Could you order what you want? Does another dealer have the same unit?
                            Just trying to help, but I am a picky buyer.

                            Keith
                            2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th wheel. Reese R20 Titan hitch, Steadyfast system, 2004 F350 King Ranch dually

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Jlawles2 View Post
                              I did not think Silicon was allowed on the roof? It should be a self leveling sealer. Hopefully that is what you are referring to.
                              This isn’t on the roof membrane, It’s on the top of the fridge vent cover. There and four screws holding it on and they have silicone sealant.
                              Attached Files
                              Sailor_Joe, 2021 imagine 2600RB, 2017 Ford F-150, XLT super crew 3.5 eco boost with max tow.

                              Comment

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