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  • Winter camping experiences

    My wife and I are shopping for a true 4 season trailer. We want to use it for weekend ski trips with the kids. Grand Design really hits all the high notes, but if there are existing threads regarding winter camping I’d appreciate if any of the regulars could guide to to them, maybe a link? This is a decent investment and I’m trying to be as careful as possible.

    Practical experiences, tips, tricks, recommended equipment. For example, I’m considering inflatable skirts. But have no idea if they make enough of a difference in practice. One of my biggest concerns is a slide out. Even with a cover, I’m concerned on how they perform in temperatures down to 0 Fahrenheit. As much as I’d like a slideout, I’d be happier without one if they perform poorly in cold weather, or are too much of a hassle to knock off any ice snow buildup


    For a dozen weekends between December to April above 5000’ in the Cascades, I really want this RV to work smoothly. I’d like to focus on the skiing and spending time with our kids, not chasing down drafts or fighting a stuck slide out, or frozen tanks when a little advice from experienced campers might have saved the day.

    t
    7
    Yes I use my Grand Design RV for winter camping
    71.43%
    5
    No I do not use my Grand Design for winter camping
    28.57%
    2

    The poll is expired.

    Last edited by Kerm; 06-12-2021, 01:30 AM.

  • #2
    d2reid

    Dallas is our resident ski camper and will be along to lend his knowledge.

    Brian
    Brian & Michelle
    2018 Reflection 29RS
    2022 Chevy 3500HD

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    • #3
      Kerm

      Welcome to our owners technical forum. When you have a chance, have a look at our welcome post. https://gdrvowners.com/forum/main-fo...to-new-members . This will help you set up your signature and navigate the forum.

      If you use the search function in the upper right corner on words such as "condensation", "insulation", dual pane", etc, you will find previous discussions on cold weather camping concerns and remedies.

      We have done some limited cold weather camping. Even a "4 season" trailer (any manufacturer) is still a box sitting above the ground with walls less than 2" thick and ceiling or floor insulation in the range of 4". Windows come in dual pane versions which will help, but window and door frames are aluminum, conducting the outside temperature to the inside. The best insulated trailer is still far less insulated than residential construction. So . . . how does this work? The answer is a relatively large propane furnace which can overpower the many sources of heat loss. You will use a lot of propane!

      You don't say whether your plan will involve moving the trailer to various locations or parked in one location for the winter. This will affect what you can do to mitigate heat loss. Things such as the skirting that you mentioned will definitely help, but are only viable if parked in one location for an extended time.

      Slides don't like to be moved in/out in very cold temperatures, but have similar insulation properties to the RV walls. Keeping the seals properly positioned will minimize air leaks around the slides. Closed cabinets on outside walls will get very cold inside and can develop condensation problems. Air circulation and humidity control are important.

      Rob
      Cate & Rob
      (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
      2015 Reflection 303RLS
      2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
      Bayham, Ontario, Canada

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      • #4
        In addition to the good advice from Cate&Rob amp;Rob, be aware that there are significant differences among the different lines within Grand Design: Transcend XPlor, Imagine, Reflection, Momentum and Solitude. The construction pages on the GD web site will give you information about insulation, etc. There are major differences in how the floors are constructed and insulated making some models not suitable for very cold temperatures.

        We have weathered temps in the low teens and, on rare occasions, single digits in both a Reflection fifth wheel and a Solitude. It was harder to keep the Reflection warm and water lines thawed in the Reflection (with single pane windows) than it has been the Solitude (dual pane windows and much better floor insulation). As mentioned, when Dallas comes along, he can really bring you up to speed.

        Rob
        Rob & Laura
        U.S. Army Retired (Rob)
        2012 F350 DRW CC Lariat PS 6.7, PullRite OE 18K
        2020 Solitude 310GK-R, MORryde IS and disc brakes, solar, BB LiFePO4, DP windows
        (Previously in a 2016 Reflection 337RLS)
        Full time since 08/2015

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Kerm View Post
          We want to use it for weekend ski trips with the kids.
          Welcome to the RV skiing life. The fact that you ski and have warm clothing and know how to use it is the first step. IMHO RV's will never be as comfortable as a house or apartment in the winter. They are difficult to keep warm, not impossible, just takes a bit more effort. So to start the conversation a couple of basics.

          Inflatable skirt. I am a huge believer in skirting in the winter, in fact I have upgraded my skirting several times and now own the most expensive one on the market. I saw my first inflatable skirt this last season. So I chatted my neighbor up about them and asked his opinion. His first comment was that they change inflation when the temperature changes. Other than that he liked them. Easy to install and uninstall, small storage footprint. He had some gaps around the stairs and utilities that I don't have with my custom made skirt. His cost less than $1000 mine cost more than $3000.

          Slides. I have had no difficulty moving slides in the really cold weather. They are a little slow. You have to remove ice. You have to make sure there is nothing on top of the slide. On mine, I have slide toppers. They help keep snow off, they really help when the snow starts to melt and the water drips down to form ice at night. The snow/melt/freeze/ice cycle must be taken into consideration. I have seen a TT with a collapsed roof in Canada. There was a snow/rain/freeze/snow/thaw/rain/freeze sequence that essentially turn 4 feet of accumulated snow into 3 feet of accumulated ice, they had left there RV unattended for the winter. Because I spend many months any ski country I keep my roof and slides clear. It just prevents a lot of potential problems. Not to mention that when you pull out if you have 2 feet of snow on top of an RV and it blows off into the windsheild of the guy behind you it could cause an accident.

          Slides insulation. Yup, they are cold spots. The cold spots will cause some condensation. I have read horror stories about condensation in winter RV's. It has not been a problem for us. Maybe we are just dry people. I get just a little frost in the corner behind the couch. Damp-Rid controls it. Slide floors tend to be colder. I have tried several different techniques. Putting foam board insulation under them, wrapping them in special custom blankets. Adding space heaters. Putting down more rugs. Using shrink plastic window insulation. All help a little bit. But my new custom skirt now encases them now I don't do anything special.

          Slide seals and cold weather. Slide seals aren't always adjusted correctly. My first indication of this was a tornado in Birmingham. Wind was 40+ mph, really heavy rain being blown sideways, I was watching the rain being forced through the seals on the windward side. When got to winter camping and the wind would come up I could feel the cold air being forced through the seals. My new Momentum is better than my old Cedar Creek in this regard. I have been know to put painters tape around the edge of the slides to stop the airflow. It doesn't insulate, but it does keep the cold air from creeping in.

          Cold weather and windows. I upgraded my new Momentum with dual pane windows. Pretty good improvement over my old single pane. Lots of folks say it's not necessary or good, I disagree. With the single pane windows I took the time and effort each year to insulate them with a Insulation Kit. That really helped a lot.

          If you are just weekend tripping your digging methods will be different than mine, I spend the whole season at the ski area. Mind your leveling pads, put down some sacrificial material. Metal can freeze to concrete. It gets worse when you are setting in the spring thaw/freeze cycles.

          Water lines. Let's see, I think there are about 3 methods for this. For a weekender the easiest is to fill the water tank and run off of the interior pump. Second method is to buy a heated hose. Two things to watch with that, one is the connection to the RV insulated. I have seen folks hook up a heated hose to an exposed outside water connection only to have the connection freeze up. In my Momentum the connection is inside a heated area. But that raises another problem with the heated hose, the sensor for the heated hose has to where it will get cold, in not, not heat to the hose. The years I used them I built a hose extension about 1' to get the sensor out into the cold. The third method is to wrap a regular water hose in electric heat tape and then add foam insulation around it. When you read the instructions on the heat tape it will tell absolutely don't do this. I guess there have been some people who have melted their water hose and caused issues, I have done this many years and have had no issues. I buy foam insulation at the hardware store for 1" inner diameter and self adhesive strips. I also toss the whole thing in the spring. I don't have much contamination phobia but by the end of the season an insulated heated hose looks kind of nasty.

          Some folks forget about their sewer pipe. On my Cedar Creek the handles where outside exposed to the elements. Road slush would get on them and cause issues. The Momentum the dump handles are all inside in a heated area. Some RV's have dual exposed sewer pipes. Lot's of pipe that can freeze. The Momentum has about 2 feet of exposed sewer pipe. This gets covered by the skirt with a zippered flap for the folding sewer hose to go through. Mostly it's not a big deal as you do not leave your dump valves open. You leave them closed and then make a dump on a warmer day, fully draining the exposed pipe. You must pay attention to how your sewer hose lays, you cannot have any dips in it. Sewer hoses become quit brittle when they freeze. I have crushed enough of them by stepping on them in the winter to know. Last winter I went so far as to set up my sewer system so I could leave the gray water open. Very careful to get the entire hose slope even. Then I added heat tape under it.

          Heating methodology. I get a kick out of the folks that say they run just an electric heater. In many RV's that works. But in my Momentum, and many other GD products, the has heater and tank positions are built such that the gas furnace must be run to keep the bays and bellies warm. Then you add electric heat for cold spot control. I run both. Mostly we can keep the RV near 70f inside. But when old man winter gets worked up, it drops to -22f, and the wind is blowing, 64f is the best we can do. Happens rarely, but it does happen. In those conditions I am changing a #40/9 gallon tank every day and half. Normal 15f-30f cycle I get about 4 days out of a #40/9 gallon tank. Mostly I try to rent a 100+ gallon and get it filled by a propane supply company. Lots and lots of discussion about this and many variants to circumstances that make huge differences.

          Neat trick for more electricity. My RV is 50amp, I always get on a 50amp post in the winter. But I run heat tape and engine block heater and sometimes christmas lights. So I bought a 30amp to 25 amp converter that plugs into the 30 amp hole on the pedestal. Usually in the winter the RV parks take up the 25 amp socket to run their water supply heat. I have seen folks run a cord from the 30amp socket to an extension cord through the edge seal of a slide to run a big electric heater.

          Stairs. Keep a broom by the door and sweep the stairs before you squish the snow. It turns to ice and the stairs get deadly.

          Shovels and other snow removal. RV parks will plow the streets. Some will do the sites, some do not. I have 4 different snow removal devices. One is a giant sled scoop thing I got in Canada for heavy we snow, regular snow shovel for quick light snow, square nose steel shovel for chopping ice, and a stiff broom for clearing the roof and slide toppers.

          Your way does not have to my way. I see lots of other ways people do things. One weekend friend I have has a very minimal setup, basically electricity, he dumps on the way home where it is warmer. You will find your way pretty quickly.

          Oh yeah, one final warning. If you tanks tend to seep a little and collect a little discharge in the sewer exit don't let this accumulate. Most folks just add a Valtera Twist Valve rather than replacing the worn dump valves. The first year I left mine closed and had to dig out a poop--cicle.




          2017 Momentum 376, 2019 Ford F450
          2022 Triumph Scrambler Motorcycle
          E-bikes, Hobi Pedal Kayaks
          Kota the dog and KC the Kitty Cat

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          • #6
            I love winter camping . . . In Arizona.

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