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2023 Converter (WFCO 9855-AD) and Battleborn (Lithium) batteries

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  • 2023 Converter (WFCO 9855-AD) and Battleborn (Lithium) batteries

    Hello! Just wanted to pass along some information I learned while working on my new trailer.

    I wanted to install two battleborn batteries and a BMV-712. I called battleborn to check about compatibility. I have a 2023 Imagine 2800BH. It came with a Furrion 25a solar charger, 165w panel and battery monitor. It came with a normal lead acid batter and has the WFCO converter WF-9855-AD.

    Battleborn advised the converter was not compatible and I could get a firmware update but it might not charge correctly with the sole panel. When I contacted WFCO they were very helpful and advised that their firm ware update would in fact charge the lithium batteries and they are working with different lithium manufacturers to make sure perimeters are correct.

    The firmware update is free and they will pay for shipping. Just fill out the form on the warranty section of their website.
    Attached Files
    • 2023 Imagine 2800BH
    • 2013 GMC Sierra 2500 6.6 Duramax (LML)
    • Family Travels with kids and dog
    • Love cool upgrades

  • #2
    Thanks for passing this information on to the group.

    It is interesting that there is a firmware update for this converter. Some owners have reported here that the converter does not always "auto detect" and switch to lithium mode, this has also been noted with the Furrion solar charger controllers. I wonder if the new firmware update for the converter will fix this issue.

    Brian
    Brian & Michelle
    2018 Reflection 29RS
    2022 Chevy 3500HD

    Comment


    • #3
      So what I was told by WFCO is that their converters don't automatically detect lithium. Mine was made just prior to them changing to a newer firmware, but with the new converters you have to do the following to make it switch to lithium:

      - Disconnect solar and unplug camper
      - Connect one battery to the system (Lithium of course)
      - run battery out as far as the BMV will allow it
      - then plug in the camper/charger and allow to fully charge the battery
      - Check through the side of the converter and make sure you see a blue light that indicates it is in Lithium mode
      - reconnect remaining batteries and use as normal.

      I haven't done this but that is what the WFCO person told me to do until we figured out my unit needed the firmware update. The Furrion solar charge controllers have to be manually switched to lithium on the controller itself. Pretty easy to do. just a button.
      • 2023 Imagine 2800BH
      • 2013 GMC Sierra 2500 6.6 Duramax (LML)
      • Family Travels with kids and dog
      • Love cool upgrades

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by AAMAFIGHTER View Post
        So what I was told by WFCO is that their converters don't automatically detect lithium. Mine was made just prior to them changing to a newer firmware, but with the new converters you have to do the following to make it switch to lithium:

        - Disconnect solar and unplug camper
        - Connect one battery to the system (Lithium of course)
        - run battery out as far as the BMV will allow it
        - then plug in the camper/charger and allow to fully charge the battery
        - Check through the side of the converter and make sure you see a blue light that indicates it is in Lithium mode
        - reconnect remaining batteries and use as normal.

        I haven't done this but that is what the WFCO person told me to do until we figured out my unit needed the firmware update. The Furrion solar charge controllers have to be manually switched to lithium on the controller itself. Pretty easy to do. just a button.
        This is what we have heard. We have also heard that the unit will sometimes revert back to wet cell charging. The other "bad" part is that one will have to fully discharge a lithium battery to get the charger to do its job resulting in one battery cycle. If it does revert back to we cell charging you will have to cycle the battery again. Easier to replace or add a dedicated charger for lithium and have no worries.

        Brian
        Brian & Michelle
        2018 Reflection 29RS
        2022 Chevy 3500HD

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Country Campers View Post
          We have also heard that the unit will sometimes revert back to wet cell charging. The other "bad" part is that one will have to fully discharge a lithium battery to get the charger to do its job resulting in one battery cycle. If it does revert back to we cell charging you will have to cycle the battery again. Easier to replace or add a dedicated charger for lithium and have no worries.

          Brian
          This is why I think I'm going the powermax route. Adjustable voltage to what you want with no auto feature to change things seemingly at random.

          To the OP, there are people that successfully used the WFCO AD chargers with no problem. Hope the new firmware works well. Let us know how it works out for you.

          2018 Dodge 3500 6.7 Cummins w Aisin and 9 cup holders
          Not to brag or anything about my finances, but my bank calls me about every day to tell me my balance is OUTSTANDING!

          Comment


          • #6
            I see what you mean with the concern about it changing. If you do the warranty work and send it in the firmware update is dedicated to lithium so no worry about auto switching back. It’s been working great since I got it back. I’ll update if any issues come up.
            • 2023 Imagine 2800BH
            • 2013 GMC Sierra 2500 6.6 Duramax (LML)
            • Family Travels with kids and dog
            • Love cool upgrades

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi everyone. We have a 2022 Imagine 2600RB and since buying it I knew we would be upgrading the battery / solar, etc. I have ordered (2) Lion UT 1300 to replace the lead weight (battery) and like many of you have decided to install them in the storage area. I also believe that the current WFCO WF-8955 PEC installed in my unit will need an upgrade to the converter. Not sure that the AD model that WFCO says will handle the lithium is really a good unit, meaning proper control and charge of the batteries. Does anyone have experience with this? Would upgrading to the AD model be a waste of money? Would the money be better spent on a different converter?

              We are also looking at installing (2) 200 watt solar panels later this year and will most likely have to upgrade the solar charge controller when that is done as it is my understanding that the Furrion 25a model that came with our rig will not be able to adequately manage all the power that the new panels will provide. In looking at the 200W solar panels I have found a few that have a footprint very close to the factory 165 watt panel. I'm looking at 200 watt panels because I just dont want to make more holes in the roof than necessary and using (2) 200 watt panels as opposed to (4) 100 watt panels accomplishes that.
              This all said, anyone using 200 watt panels? If so, what brand did you go with and why?

              Our eventual plan has us using a Victron Energy solar charge controller, and a Victron Energy Inverter/Charger along with the (2) 200 watt solar panels and (2) Lion UT 1300 batteries, associated components, wiring, etc.

              We don't have plans to go bigger that the (2) batteries and (2) solar panels. Since our unit has the 12v refrigerator installed the goal would be to ensure it continues running on overnight stays (boon docking, harvest hosts) while traveling. From what I have been able to find so far, it seems that this (kinda small) solar system would do the job.

              Sorry about being long winded and kinda all over the place. Just looking for input on this size system and what others have/are doing. Thanks


              Jim & Kathy
              2022 Imagine 2600RB
              2022 RAM 1500 Limited Longhorn, Hemi e-Torque, 3:92,
              trailer tow pkg, 4x air suspension, TT TPMS.

              Comment


              • #8
                Kathy&Jim_Imagine

                What Victron inverter/charger? If it will be a 3000VA unit, you'll need a minimum of three batteries to take full advantage of it's capabilities. If a 2000VA unit, the two batteries will be fine.

                Why?

                Because typically a 100aH battery has the ability to sustain a 100 ampere (100A) output. When inverted to 120vAC that 100a of 12vDC becomes 10A of 120vAC. (Losses in the system are ignored for this example.) A 3000VA (VA="volt amps", which can be thought of as watts for this simple example) means that inverter can output 25A.

                If you've followed all that math, 25A of 120vAC requires 250A of 12vDC (from the batteries). The assumption is the battery can only sustain 100A, so that means with an inverter capable of generating 25A of 120vAC with the limitation of the battery bank with two batteries (max output 200A) the most the system will sustain is 20A of 120vAC.

                Clear as mud?

                What I'm suggesting is if you're going to eventually get a 3000VA inverter/charger, buy three batteries. If it will be a 2000VA unit, two batteries will be fine.

                If I've confused you, please fire back with questions.

                Also--if you'll "eventually" get a Victron inverter/charger, get one now instead of getting a different converter in the interim. (I'm not a fan of the WFCO.)

                Howard
                Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

                Comment


                • #9
                  Kathy&Jim_Imagine

                  I started with a similar set up, Replacing Lead Acid Battery with Lithium - Grand Design Owners Forums (gdrvowners.com)​ and also the solar Solar Install, Reflection 29RS Fifth Wheel - Grand Design Owners Forums (gdrvowners.com)​ as well as the Victron Inverter Victron Multiplus II 2x120v 3kva install Reflection 29RS - Grand Design Owners Forums (gdrvowners.com)​.

                  Have a read thru those threads and you may find some helpful information.

                  Brian
                  Brian & Michelle
                  2018 Reflection 29RS
                  2022 Chevy 3500HD

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    @ howson. Yeah, that explanation... LOL. I'll have to read that a couple times... As far as the Victron products go, I've been looking at the Victron multiplus 2000VA, I'm not decided for sure just yet. Also looking at the Victron MPPT 100/30 charge controller and the Victron Lynx Distributor, associated fuses, cabling, etc...
                    As I see it, the WFCO is nothing more than a 120v breaker and 12v fuse panel once the converter is removed.

                    @ Country Campers. I will certainly look at the posts that you suggested.

                    I appreciate the input from both of you. Thanks
                    Jim & Kathy
                    2022 Imagine 2600RB
                    2022 RAM 1500 Limited Longhorn, Hemi e-Torque, 3:92,
                    trailer tow pkg, 4x air suspension, TT TPMS.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by AAMAFIGHTER View Post
                      Hello! Just wanted to pass along some information I learned while working on my new trailer.

                      I wanted to install two battleborn batteries and a BMV-712. I called battleborn to check about compatibility. I have a 2023 Imagine 2800BH. It came with a Furrion 25a solar charger, 165w panel and battery monitor. It came with a normal lead acid batter and has the WFCO converter WF-9855-AD.

                      Battleborn advised the converter was not compatible and I could get a firmware update but it might not charge correctly with the sole panel. When I contacted WFCO they were very helpful and advised that their firm ware update would in fact charge the lithium batteries and they are working with different lithium manufacturers to make sure perimeters are correct.

                      The firmware update is free and they will pay for shipping. Just fill out the form on the warranty section of their website.
                      I'm curious, what is manufacture date of your TT? I just brought home a 2023 Imagine XLS 23 BHE manufactured 06/2022. The power center is labeled 8735-AD-GE. Just received my SOK 200Ah Lithium battery. Thought the auto-detect would make this conversion "plug and play" minus the battery draining and plug in procedure. Also curious if anyone can post a link to a basic thread on relocating the battery into passthrough storage I found several articles but they all seem to have a lot electrical gear which I do not intend to add. Just need a basic version of this process.
                      Thanks Ya'll
                      2023 Imagine XLS 23 BHE, F-150 LWB Crew Cab

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I just went through this journey myself. Did enough research to be convinced that the WFCO auto detect technology either doesn’t work or is very unreliable. Also, if I was going to pull my whole converter out to send in for updates, no way I was putting that same unreliable unit back in. Why they don’t just put a physical switch in to choose Lithium is beyond me.

                        After talking to Battleborn techs, they recommended I talk to someone named Randy at best converter.com. He let me know Progressive Dynamics made a direct replacement for my power panel converter. It has a physical switch for Lithium or lead acid. It was only $180. Put it in and works great. Getting 14.5 volts to the batteries and time to charge to 100% went from about 36 hours with the WFCO to about 5-6 hours with the progressive Dynamics.

                        if you can get the WFCO to work that’s great. But if you’re doing the work to yank out your converter to send in, I wouldn’t put the same unreliable thing back in. On the Progressive Dynamics site the have a list of direct replacement models for many different WFCO units.
                        2023 Grand Design Imagine XLS 21BHE
                        2023 Ford F-350 12,000 lb GVRW w/tow tech package

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          goodXgang
                          hey sorry I’m just seeing your post.

                          The moving of the batteries to the pass through is pretty straight forward if that is all you are doing. You’ll have to trace the wires from your battery and disconnect them from The batteries. Then route them where you would like. I just installed some batteries and other items in my pass through storage. You could check out that post. Not to difficult though if you are just doing the batteries.

                          As far as the converter being plug and play I personally wouldn’t trust it as I’ve seen several have had issues with it on here. I am trusting it because I actually sent my converter back to WFCO and spoke with them over the phone to verify that they were making the converter a dedicated lithium (battleborn) compatible charger as well as running the 12v side of things when I’m plugged in. I am still monitoring closely with my BMV-712 to make sure the batteries are receiving sufficient charge and getting to 100%. Might do a science project and hook up a volt meter some day… I dunno

                          here’s a link to that thread with the pass through relocation on mine. It’s not a how to but there are some pictures.

                          https://gdrvowners.com/forum/operati...ns-no-inverter
                          So I posted a few different times asking questions and whatnot. I finally got around to doing my project and was going to update. I added the following - two battleborn heated 100ah batteries - Victron BMV 712 smart shunt - main cut off switch - 12v circuit panel (small for frame circuits) - Lynx distributor (
                          Last edited by AAMAFIGHTER; 05-11-2023, 10:53 AM.
                          • 2023 Imagine 2800BH
                          • 2013 GMC Sierra 2500 6.6 Duramax (LML)
                          • Family Travels with kids and dog
                          • Love cool upgrades

                          Comment

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