Coax Surge Protector

[howson]

gbkims (or anyone with knowledge on the topic!),

I have a TII 210FF75F225-31 Coax Surge Protector. I'm thinking of installing in place of the Female-to-Female connector on the Nautilus panel.





What I don't understand is if it needs a ground source. It *appears* that this particular unit can be mounted without one, unlike the model 212.

http://www.tiitech.com/products.php?cat=7
http://www.tiitech.com/repository/in...212_InstNt.pdf
http://www.tiitech.com/repository/da...ry/210_212.pdf

Any thoughts?

TIA!
Howard

[gbkims]

gbkims (or anyone with knowledge on the topic!),

I have a TII 210FF75F225-31 Coax Surge Protector. I'm thinking of installing in place of the Female-to-Female connector on the Nautilus panel.

What I don't understand is if it needs a ground source. It *appears* that this particular unit can be mounted without one, unlike the model 212.

http://www.tiitech.com/repository/in...212_InstNt.pdf

Any thoughts?

TIA!
Howard

Hi Howard,

Yes it needs a ground close to the protector so the voltage spike diverts to earth ground
In the case of residential house that'd be nearby ground rod electrode for the house.
The installation note Fig 2 shows they expect the 210OFF to be mounted to a grounded metal bracket.

I've used L-com coax protectors that used gas discharge tube before when I had OTA antenna up on the roof and had it grounded to part of my backyard's partial ground ring.

We used to use Tii protectors on our work telephone leased lines modems at remote RTU's sites.

[howson]

Hi Howard,

Yes it needs a ground close to the protector so the voltage spike diverts to earth ground
In the case of residential house that'd be nearby ground rod electrode for the house.
The installation note Fig 2 shows they expect the 210OFF to be mounted to a grounded metal bracket.

I've used L-com coax protectors that used gas discharge tube before when I had OTA antenna up on the roof and had it grounded to part of my backyard's partial ground ring.

We used to use Tii protectors on our work telephone leased lines modems at remote RTU's sites.

Thanks, Gene.

Update: See post 6 to read why the idea expressed below is not a good one. While the reply in post 5 is certainly valid, the potential of electrical gremlins from ground loops offsets the benefit.

Do you think a connector around the coax (held on by the coax nut) with a wire to the trailer frame will work? I realize a direct strike is going to fry everything regardless of the protection, but I'm hoping this setup will provide to some degree the devices hooked to the coax in the camper.

[gbkims]

Thanks, Gene.

Do you think a connector around the coax (held on by the coax nut) with a wire to the trailer frame will work? I realize a direct strike is going to fry everything regardless of the protection, but I'm hoping this setup will provide to some degree the devices hooked to the coax in the camper.

Howard,

I had to do some reading to try to understand the differences in grounding at a residence versus a RV for lightning induced voltage.
I did see there are some of these protectors sold that don't expect to be grounded, except via the coax shield.
Connecting the wire to your frame may help since the incoming shore power ground wire (PE) bonds to the frame and would tie back into the park's ground.
I assume this is for when connected to CATV service at a park.

Got a bit sidetracked when came across Hot Coax Connection/Melting Coax cables causing by RV Park electrical problems.
Came across a post where Mike Sokol had some comment on a different type of problem with CATV wiring Hot Coax,
CATV/RV Grounding Issue http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index....,162707.0.html

[howson]

Howard,

I had to do some reading to try to understand the differences in grounding at a residence versus a RV for lightning induced voltage.
I did see there are some of these protectors sold that don't expect to be grounded, except via the coax shield.
Connecting the wire to your frame may help since the incoming shore power ground wire (PE) bonds to the frame and would tie back into the park's ground.
I assume this is for when connected to CATV service at a park.

Got a bit sidetracked when came across Hot Coax Connection/Melting Coax cables causing by RV Park electrical problems.
Came across a post where Mike Sokol had some comment on a different type of problem with CATV wiring Hot Coax,
CATV/RV Grounding Issue http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index....,162707.0.html

Fascinating article on that prosound forum. Mike Sokol really knows his stuff, no doubt about that.

Thanks, as always, Gene for the comprehensive response.

Howard

[howson]

gbkims (Gene),
I called TII and was pleasantly surprised to be passed to an engineer who spent a few minutes discussing the 210 and 212 protectors.



The difference is that ground bar attached to the 212. The engineer said the 212 is for outside of a home where that ground can be attached to the main house ground. (Literally a bar in the ground?)

He wasn't enthusiastic about grounding the 210 to the RV as he said that could potentially set up a difference in voltage, as the case of the 210 is connected to the coax shielding which in itself is supposed to be grounded. Bottom line: I could introduce all kinds of unanticipated electrical nuisance problems installing that lug around the the 210. So that idea is out.

I wanted to install the 210 in place of the female-to-female adapter that's in the Nautilus panel, but that didn't work either. I did learn that the adapter in the Nautilus will come out--with a little convincing. Good to know if it ever gets damaged and needs replacing.

So what I did was make a very short coax cable and installed the 210 behind the Nautilus. Not ideal, as it will be a royal nuisance to replace if it goes bad, but I don't want it hanging out in front of the Nautilus, either. I could also put it further down-stream between the TV and the wall connection. I'll probably end up doing just that, as the point is to protect as much as possible the television from surges through the coax.

Below are some pics to show what I was doing. For those that may be interested, the kit from Lowes makes putting together a coax cable a simple task. Excellent kit with easy-to-use tools.

[gbkims]

gbkims (Gene),
I called TII and was pleasantly surprised to be passed to an engineer who spent a few minutes discussing the 210 and 212 protectors.

The difference is that ground bar attached to the 212. The engineer said the 212 is for outside of a home where that ground can be attached to the main house ground. (Literally a bar in the ground?)

He wasn't enthusiastic about grounding the 210 to the RV as he said that could potentially set up a difference in voltage, as the case of the 210 is connected to the coax shielding which in itself is supposed to be grounded. Bottom line: I could introduce all kinds of unanticipated electrical nuisance problems installing that lug around the the 210. So that idea is out.

I wanted to install the 210 in place of the female-to-female adapter that's in the Nautilus panel, but that didn't work either. I did learn that the adapter in the Nautilus will come out--with a little convincing. Good to know if it ever gets damaged and needs replacing.

So what I did was make a very short coax cable and installed the 210 behind the Nautilus. Not ideal, as it will be a royal nuisance to replace if it goes bad, but I don't want it hanging out in front of the Nautilus, either. I could also put it further down-stream between the TV and the wall connection. I'll probably end up doing just that, as the point is to protect as much as possible the television from surges through the coax.

Below are some pics to show what I was doing. For those that may be interested, the kit from Lowes makes putting together a coax cable a simple task. Excellent kit with easy-to-use tools.

Looks good Howard. Glad you got the info from Tii.
Good snap-n-seal style coax kit, very reasonable price.

The ground rods at houses are sometimes buried in the dirt near the incoming electric service. The NEC requires 8' of the rod in contact with the soil.
Mine sticks up since I replaced the builder's 8' galvanized rod with 10' copper clad rod.
There's easier ways to bond to the ground rods now also like: http://www.aifittings.com/landing/gr...bridge-clamps/


My house's main ground rod:

[bellis]

So, I hadn't put much thought into this because we are primarily interested in boondocking AND while we have primarily been at campsites so far, it has not been at full hookups or sites that provide cable. Next month, we are camping for a week at a full hookup location that has cable. I have looked through the posts above and from what I can gather:

1. Surge protection on coax is needed.
2. A grounding rod is needed?

So, if you all were going to do this over - would you do anything differently? Does it make sense to have the ground near the source? Are you splitting it for multiple TV's (docking station has bedroom + living room connection)?

[howson]

So, I hadn't put much thought into this because we are primarily interested in boondocking AND while we have primarily been at campsites so far, it has not been at full hookups or sites that provide cable. Next month, we are camping for a week at a full hookup location that has cable. I have looked through the posts above and from what I can gather:

1. Surge protection on coax is needed.
2. A grounding rod is needed?

So, if you all were going to do this over - would you do anything differently? Does it make sense to have the ground near the source? Are you splitting it for multiple TV's (docking station has bedroom + living room connection)?

A model 210 is not intended for an additional ground. Attach it inline with the coax and you're done. (Full explanation in post #6 above. Gene's reply in post 7 is referencing the model 212, the external version meant for a home installation.)

I installed 210's between each of my TV's in the RV and the coax outlet on the wall. Super easy to install. Five minutes to attach and it's done.

[bellis]

A model 210 is not intended for an additional ground. Attach it inline with the coax and you're done. (Full explanation in post #6 above. Gene's reply in post 7 is referencing the model 212, the external version meant for a home installation.)

I installed 210's between each of my TV's in the RV and the coax outlet on the wall. Super easy to install. Five minutes to attach and it's done.

Excellent.

I will pick up (1) https://www.amazon.com/TII-210-Coaxi...%2C160&sr=8-13

I assume the hookups at a campground will only have one spot for me to plug in (coax) at the pedestal. Would you not be ahead to buy only (1), run your wire from pedestal to TII 210 (inside the passthrough) and then split it (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...KIKX0DER&psc=1) then run 2 shorter coax cables to each input (IE so both TV's work)?

[howson]

Excellent.

I will pick up (1) https://www.amazon.com/TII-210-Coaxi...%2C160&sr=8-13

I assume the hookups at a campground will only have one spot for me to plug in (coax) at the pedestal. Would you not be ahead to buy only (1), run your wire from pedestal to TII 210 (inside the passthrough) and then split it (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...KIKX0DER&psc=1) then run 2 shorter coax cables to each input (IE so both TV's work)?

It could be done that way. I chose to install them inside between the wall plate and TV so there's installed and I don't have to think about it again. Doing it that way protects the TVs if I'm using the antenna, too, and there's a surge that comes up the coax in the trailer. (Within reason--a very close or direct lightning strike will smoke everything regardless. These things do have there limits.)

[bellis]

Still not sure why the 3 connections. Again, never been to a camp ground with cable, so are the rest of you splitting? Unplugging it and plugging it back in? Running multiple cables? Trying to figure out the best way to do this (prefer wires behind the dock). Splitting seems to make the most sense to me....not sure what all 3 connections are though....bedroom and living room OK...but what is CABLE/CABLE?

[howson]

Still not sure why the 3 connections. Again, never been to a camp ground with cable, so are the rest of you splitting? Unplugging it and plugging it back in? Running multiple cables? Trying to figure out the best way to do this (prefer wires behind the dock). Splitting seems to make the most sense to me....not sure what all 3 connections are though....bedroom and living room OK...but what is CABLE/CABLE?

Same for the second TV. Everything else is connected normally.

[bellis]

Same for the second TV. Everything else is connected normally.

I mean in the trailer. IE 3 inputs on the dock.

[howson]

I mean in the trailer. IE 3 inputs on the dock.

Oh--it didn't "click" that we'd transitioned to a different topic.

I only use the one cable connection at the Nautilus panel for those rare times when the campground actually has cable. I watch so little actual "TV" anymore I'm not the best one to consult on that issue. Most of my time is online, either on forums or watching something (hopefully) educational on YouTube.

Hopefully a fellow cable TV aficionado can provide a better answer.