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  • Inverter, multiplus, solar addition begins

    I am starting my design to add an Victron Multiplus inverter. Let the planning and parts list begin!
    My 297 RSTS is a bumper pull trailer and I want to mount the system in the pass thru storage.
    I have 2 tongue mounted 12V 105A LiFeP04 batteries, and want to keep them on the tongue due to space limitations.
    My thought is a Victron Multiplus 12/2000/80, but, reading the specs, it is too tall for the 18 1/2" (20" max) height of the pass thru. Unless it can be mounted sideways? Looking at the manual, it says vertical is preferred for best heat dispersion but horizontal is acceptable.
    Looks like size limitations will be driving much of this build.

    Erik
    Erik & Tea
    2021 Reflection 297RSTS
    2005 Ford Excursion 6L diesel
    ProPride hitch

  • #2
    Originally posted by Popga View Post
    I am starting my design to add an Victron Multiplus inverter. Let the planning and parts list begin!
    My 297 RSTS is a bumper pull trailer and I want to mount the system in the pass thru storage.
    I have 2 tongue mounted 12V 105A LiFeP04 batteries, and want to keep them on the tongue due to space limitations.
    My thought is a Victron Multiplus 12/2000/80, but, reading the specs, it is too tall for the 18 1/2" (20" max) height of the pass thru. Unless it can be mounted sideways? Looking at the manual, it says vertical is preferred for best heat dispersion but horizontal is acceptable.
    Looks like size limitations will be driving much of this build.

    Erik
    While Jim didn't incorporate a Multiplus, he'll should be able to advise about locations. TucsonJim
    Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

    2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

    Comment


    • #3
      Popga -- moved your thread to the Electrical channel.
      Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

      2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

      Comment


      • #4
        I am ok with more economical solutions not using Multiplus also.

        Erik
        Erik & Tea
        2021 Reflection 297RSTS
        2005 Ford Excursion 6L diesel
        ProPride hitch

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Popga View Post
          I am ok with more economical solutions not using Multiplus also.

          Erik
          As you may have read in a previous post, a good resource is Will Prowse' DIY Solar website. https://www.mobile-solarpower.com/ It's a good place to look for economical alternatives to Victron. Don't get me wrong--I'm (mostly) "all in!" when it comes to Victron kit 'cause it's so dang cool, but it does tend to bust the budget.

          Howard
          Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

          2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by howson View Post

            As you may have read in a previous post, a good resource is Will Prowse' DIY Solar website. https://www.mobile-solarpower.com/ It's a good place to look for economical alternatives to Victron. Don't get me wrong--I'm (mostly) "all in!" when it comes to Victron kit 'cause it's so dang cool, but it does tend to bust the budget.

            Howard
            I have his book (its been sitting in front of me, only thumbed thru, for 6 months) and have watched most of his videos...brilliant!
            It seems like the MultiPlus systems aren't "That much more" when you add up all the individual components of a stand alone inverter. I'm really looking for ease of use, and convenience after build is done.

            Just spoke to a tech at Signature Solar and he said not all LiFeP04 battery BMS' work on the MultiPlus. Since I went with Lion Energy, not Battleborn or SOK, it may be an issue? I may also have to swap out my batteries (Costco) if not compatible.

            For now, I'll plan to use the one of the MultiPlus systems. But how do you know which one?

            Erik
            Erik & Tea
            2021 Reflection 297RSTS
            2005 Ford Excursion 6L diesel
            ProPride hitch

            Comment


            • #7
              I am using the Lion Energy UT 1300's in my setup, ncitro and WondersAwait are using them as well with no issues with the Victron equipment. Here is the thread for my install Victron Multiplus II 2x120v 3kva install Reflection 29RS - Grand Design Owners Forums (gdrvowners.com)​ and here is David's WA's 303RLS Electrical Mods - Grand Design Owners Forums (gdrvowners.com)​.

              I realize these are in fifth wheels and not bumper pulls but will shed some light on the install and what is needed.

              I chose the Multiplus 2 because it is a "all in one" unit. I was thinking about a stand alone inverter but when the rest of the parts were bought and installed the cost was pretty close. It is a great unit and easy to use and install. They are a little tall and may not fit in your pass thru but you could mount it on its side, it is pretty thin also. It is heavy so when you mount it be sure it is sturdy and heavy duty mounting.

              Brian
              Brian & Michelle
              2018 Reflection 29RS
              2022 Chevy 3500HD

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Popga View Post

                I have his book (its been sitting in front of me, only thumbed thru, for 6 months) and have watched most of his videos...brilliant!
                It seems like the MultiPlus systems aren't "That much more" when you add up all the individual components of a stand alone inverter. I'm really looking for ease of use, and convenience after build is done.

                Just spoke to a tech at Signature Solar and he said not all LiFeP04 battery BMS' work on the MultiPlus. Since I went with Lion Energy, not Battleborn or SOK, it may be an issue? I may also have to swap out my batteries (Costco) if not compatible.

                For now, I'll plan to use the one of the MultiPlus systems. But how do you know which one?

                Erik
                Some batteries have BMS' that will connect to Victron equipment via one of the available bus systems. In the case of Victron batteries, a separate BMS is required since the battery does not have one incorporated into the case.

                For the vast majority of us on the forum the battery type purchased was a battery with an internal, stand-alone BMS. For example, the Battle Borns I have do not "talk" to my Victron setup. None of the Battle Born batteries have a BMS that will "talk" with a Victron GX device. As you probably know, every LifePO4 battery has (or needs) a BMS (either internal or external).

                For sake of clarity, don't confuse the Battery Management System (BMS) and it's ability (or not) to communicate with Victron equipment with the values calculated by a Victron Battery Monitor like the BMV-712. The BMV-712 (and other similar components that are essentially a battery "fuel gauge") are a completely different and separate component with a different function provided by a BMS.

                Clear as mud?
                Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Country Campers View Post
                  I am using the Lion Energy UT 1300's in my setup, ncitro and WondersAwait are using them as well with no issues with the Victron equipment. Here is the thread for my install Victron Multiplus II 2x120v 3kva install Reflection 29RS - Grand Design Owners Forums (gdrvowners.com)​ and here is David's WA's 303RLS Electrical Mods - Grand Design Owners Forums (gdrvowners.com)​.

                  I realize these are in fifth wheels and not bumper pulls but will shed some light on the install and what is needed.

                  I chose the Multiplus 2 because it is a "all in one" unit. I was thinking about a stand alone inverter but when the rest of the parts were bought and installed the cost was pretty close. It is a great unit and easy to use and install. They are a little tall and may not fit in your pass thru but you could mount it on its side, it is pretty thin also. It is heavy so when you mount it be sure it is sturdy and heavy duty mounting.

                  Brian
                  Thanks, Brian...

                  I will for sure be looking at those threads!

                  If I want it to fit, looks like I may need to go with the MultiPlus 1 (12/3000/120), or build a platform to lie the MultiPlus 2 horizontally on its back. Apparently the Victron definition of horizontal is not horizontal on its side, but horizontal with the back mounted to the floor....more limitations to over come. Comments and corrections appreciated!

                  My current understanding:

                  -MultiPlus 2 will handle both lines (Line 1 and 2) on a 50A park plug making connecting very easy.

                  -MultiPlus 1 (12/3000/120), line 1 goes to the AC power box and powers whatever is on that side of the box. Line 2 goes to the Multiplus then back to the AC power box and powers the other side. Meaning, I think, that if you are not plugged into shore power, you are only powering half your box?

                  -Perhaps if the air conditioning is on the un-powered side that would be ok, because I can't run air conditioning without generator or shore power anyway?

                  -Would my Honda 2000 still power air conditioner through 115A shore power plug (it does now with micro-air)?

                  -Would I have to turn off the MultiPlus 1 if running air conditioner so I'm not powering the charger?


                  Erik
                  Erik & Tea
                  2021 Reflection 297RSTS
                  2005 Ford Excursion 6L diesel
                  ProPride hitch

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by howson View Post

                    Some batteries have BMS' that will connect to Victron equipment via one of the available bus systems. In the case of Victron batteries, a separate BMS is required since the battery does not have one incorporated into the case.

                    For the vast majority of us on the forum the battery type purchased was a battery with an internal, stand-alone BMS. For example, the Battle Borns I have do not "talk" to my Victron setup. None of the Battle Born batteries have a BMS that will "talk" with a Victron GX device. As you probably know, every LifePO4 battery has (or needs) a BMS (either internal or external).

                    For sake of clarity, don't confuse the Battery Management System (BMS) and it's ability (or not) to communicate with Victron equipment with the values calculated by a Victron Battery Monitor like the BMV-712. The BMV-712 (and other similar components that are essentially a battery "fuel gauge") are a completely different and separate component with a different function provided by a BMS.

                    Clear as mud?
                    Ha! Translating that into something my mind understands might look like: "Don't worry about it, they'll work"?


                    Erik
                    Erik & Tea
                    2021 Reflection 297RSTS
                    2005 Ford Excursion 6L diesel
                    ProPride hitch

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Popga View Post

                      Ha! Translating that into something my mind understands might look like: "Don't worry about it, they'll work"?


                      Erik
                      Yep--I get it. As one who has been where you are--IMO it is critical to understand what you're buying and why before outlaying any cash to buy equipment.

                      So let's start with the BMS (Battery Management System). A BMS is a dedicated component that keeps the battery safe and healthy.

                      Sorry for the repetition, but in the case of a Battle Born (or SOK, and lots of others) the BMS is internal to the battery and does not communicate with the outside world. Victron, on the other hand, uses an external BMS with their battery. Victron's many different BMS' have cool features that can be viewed by the owner. There may even be a battery with an internal BMS that can also communicate with Victron's system. Regardless, no matter the configuration or location, any BMS will perform the basic functions of keeping the battery safe and healthy.

                      Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                      2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Just a thought...I have been running a system on my Imagine 22MLE for 7 months and been using it for boondocking all across the US. I installed the system using Bluetti components (Bluettipower.com)_. I have one AC300 which contains two 3000 w MPTT controllers inside and then I have 2 B300 battery banks which supply 3100 watts each. The system can accommodate a total of 4 B300 packs for a whopping total of over 12000 watts. I remove the GD supplied batteries and have the DC 30 port on the AC300 hooked to the old battery cables. I currently have 6 Rich Solar 200watt panels suppling the unit since I only have limited space on the roof. of this 22MLE. I installed the solar panels using strut channels and tiltable brackets to allow move to move things around in the future. The BLUETTI system is not cheap but very easy to install. When I boondock all I do it hookup up a standard 30amp TT power cord to the TT and the other male end plugs into the TT30 receptacle on the Bluetti AC300. Black Friday sales rock!!!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          howson

                          Thanks for the video and the clear explanation of the 2 different BMS systems. You are correct....lots to learn. And I'd rather know what's behind the switch I'm flipping than just flipping it.


                          Erik
                          Erik & Tea
                          2021 Reflection 297RSTS
                          2005 Ford Excursion 6L diesel
                          ProPride hitch

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by howson View Post

                            Yep--I get it. As one who has been where you are--IMO it is critical to understand what you're buying and why before outlaying any cash to buy equipment.

                            So let's start with the BMS (Battery Management System). A BMS is a dedicated component that keeps the battery safe and healthy.

                            Sorry for the repetition, but in the case of a Battle Born (or SOK, and lots of others) the BMS is internal to the battery and does not communicate with the outside world. Victron, on the other hand, uses an external BMS with their battery. Victron's many different BMS' have cool features that can be viewed by the owner. There may even be a battery with an internal BMS that can also communicate with Victron's system. Regardless, no matter the configuration or location, any BMS will perform the basic functions of keeping the battery safe and healthy.

                            About a battery BMS I'll add this: in looking at a lithium battery, a BMS is the most important component IMO. When looking at batteries, I would make sure the BMS has: Charge/discharge over/under Temp protection, charge and discharge over current protection, over/under voltage protection (both battery and cell), basic over current/over voltage protection and at least 1 temp sensor for every 4 cells.

                            I bought cells and added an Overkill BMS to make my own batteries. With Overkill I can monitor each battery (actually each cell of each battery), I can program the parameters of the BMS through an app on my phone using Bluetooth.

                            Here you can see the information I can see for each battery (each BMS). These are 24V batteries with 8 cells each.

                            Below is the "main" screen where I can see current voltage, current charge/discharge rates, temperature from each sensor (one on each side of the "battery"), and voltage for each cell.

                            I can also turn off charging and/or discharging for the specific battery and turn the battery on or off.

                            Click image for larger version

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                            If I want to configure the parameters, there are many options.

                            I can configure the "protections" parameters per cell and battery.

                            Click image for larger version

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                            I can also configure cell balancing parameters:

                            Click image for larger version

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                            And I can configure capacity parameters.

                            Click image for larger version

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                            If anybody does this, I HIGHLY recommend using the parameters the battery cell manufacturer recommends. Unless you really know what you're doing, you can mess up your battery pretty good if you do something wrong.

                            So, the advantage of purchasing a battery (with a BMS - Like Battle Born) is that all these parameters and settings are already done and is a "plug-and-play" component. Disadvantage is that you cannot customize any parameters and, as Howard pointed out, you may not be able to get a lot of info about the battery itself.

                            Advantage of building your own battery is that you can customize, monitor and make it the size/shape you want. Disadvantage is you have to build your own battery.

                            So, good luck with your build. The journey is the fun part
                            Allen

                            2021 Momentum 21G

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                            • #15
                              acoleman43

                              That is incredible....


                              Erik
                              Erik & Tea
                              2021 Reflection 297RSTS
                              2005 Ford Excursion 6L diesel
                              ProPride hitch

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