Residential Fridge Outlet has Open Neutral

[SolitudeAtLast]

We left for a week for thanksgiving, and came home to our residential refrigerator not working; meat thawed etc. Fridge working fine on an extension cord plugged into nearby outlet. Test of the outlet shows an Open Neutral. I shut off the breaker and opened up the outlet and it seems okay.
The fridge outlet is on the same breaker (marked GENERAL) as the coffee bar outlets, bunk room outlets, and bedside outlets in the main bedroom. ONLY the fridge outlet does not work. All others work fine.
The breaker marked REFER powers the microwave, TV, Rear Sofa, and Recliner outlets (but not the fridge).

The romex to the faulty outlet comes in from the frame to the rear corner of the kitchen slide (behind the fireplace). Looking under the fireplace, it looks like there may be some connectors there. Then the bundle runs along the floor behind the fireplace, pantry, and stove, and then goes up in the space between the stove/microwave with separate romex to the microwave outlet, & different romex to the fridge outlet (which are almost directly opposite each other).

Since the trailer is parked permanently since new, it is not subject to road vibrations etc.

My next step is to remove the fireplace and check the connectors where the wire bundle comes in. I’m not sure yet how to remove the fireplace.

Any suggestions on how to isolate where the open neutral is? Or guidance on how to remove the fireplace?

Thanks!

[Country Campers]

Is the fridge the last item on the circuit? If so check the plug prior to it for the proper wire connections.

The receptacles are terrible on how the connections are made and it may look good but the wires may not be making the proper connection.

Do you have a plug checker?, really technical there, like this Klein Tools RT110 Outlet Tester, AC Electrical Receptacle Tester for North American Outlets - - Amazon.com, can be found at local hardware stores as well. This will help you check each one to see where the issue may be. The next place to look would be under the slide where the wire bundle is tied, there may be a broken wire in this area as it is flexed when the slide is moving. If all of the receptacles have the same issue on that line then it may be a faulty Molex connector which will be found in the under belly where the wring from the slide goes thru the frame, there have been some faults found with these in the past.

After all of that you may want to check the wiring connections in the power distribution panel, where the breakers are, maybe check those first. Make sure that all screws are tight and the wires are inserted properly. Before checking this make sure that all power is off inside the RV, shore power disconnected, inverter off if you have that, battery cables removed, so there is no chance of shock or grounding a terminal and causing other issues.

Brian

[howson]

Any suggestions on how to isolate where the open neutral is?

Great job describing the problem, Doug. I'd be looking for the Molex connector that interfaces the "hard" wiring (typical romex) to the "soft" wiring GD uses to power items in a slide room. See https://gdrvowners.com/forum/operati...lex-connectors

There's a lot documented on the forum about molex--do a search (in Google or DuckDuckGo, etc) and use this search criteria: molex site:gdrvowners.com

For help with the fireplace a model (or picture) will help us identify it.

Howard

[SolitudeAtLast]

1. Yes, I have the Plug checker, which shows the open neutral..
2. Also have a VOM. It shows continuity of the neutral wire to the metal “blades” which pierce the insulation. But, there is no continuity of the metal blades to the center ground wire. Also no continuity of the visible end of the neutral wire itself to the ground wire.
3. The cable/Romex comes all the way to the outlet. The wires are “hard” copper wire, not the soft stranded type.
4. I took the cover off the Dist center for a look, but didn’t want kill power at the post unless early in the morning when its cooler here.
5. The fridge outlet (only one with a problem) is obviously the last one in the circuit. It is also the only one in the Kitchen slide; other outlets on that breaker are the coffee bar and bunk room & bedroom (outlets not in slide). So its hard to know which is the last one before the fridge.
6. The fridge outlet has Brown romex coming to it.
7. Fireplace is a Greystone 26in, Model WF2613L per the owner manual stuff.

Is there a wiring diagram or schematic that would show where the fridge outlet it tied into the rest of the breaker circuit?

[Jlawles2]

Check the perimeter of the fireplace for a trim piece that will snap off, or screws straight through the face. Some fireplaces have a glass screen that needs to be removed to find the screws that hold it in place.

I would do as Howard suggest and find where the umbilical goes into the frame. There should be 1 - 2 screws through a metal plate and behind this plate you will find the Molex solid to stranded wire interface. There are a topic of many headaches.

[howson]

3. The cable/Romex comes all the way to the outlet. The wires are “hard” copper wire, not the soft stranded type.

I'd be very surprised to find out your RV is not utilizing Molex connectors. This is your floorplan, right?



If the answer's "yes", then the refrigerator is in the slide (and I assume the outlet is, too). To my knowledge and without exception, GD transitions from hard wire to flexible (using a molex connector) to accommodate movement of the wiring coincident with the slide. Given what you can see (there's romex at the refrigerator outlet) it's possible there's a second junction where the flexible wiring transitions back to the romex through another molex connector.

Let's put that aside for a moment and go back to your second point.

2. Also have a VOM. It shows continuity of the neutral wire to the metal “blades” which pierce the insulation. But, there is no continuity of the metal blades to the center ground wire. Also no continuity of the visible end of the neutral wire itself to the ground wire.

The neutral and ground are not bonded in an RV, so what you found (no continuity from ground to neutral) is good.

If anything in this next paragraph is "greek"--don't try it. Unless you're 100% sure best to hire someone (or collar a knowledgeable friend to help).

How I'd test (with all power confirmed off):I'd jumper the ground wire and neutral in the electrical outlet. Now, in the Power Distribution Box (PDP), I'd check for continuity between the neutral bar and ground bar. If there's continuity, there's no problem with the wiring from the PDP to the outlet on either the ground or neutral wire. No continuity? I'd change the jumper in the electrical box to the hot and ground and check for continuity from the circuit breaker output ("hot") to the ground bar in the PDP. There should be continuity. Which would tell me definitively that there's a break in the neutral between the PDP and the outlet. Now it's down to physically tracing the wiring, including looking under the coroplast near the kitchen slide. Note: Make sure and remove any and all jumpers before reapplying power.

While I was in the PDP (with power off) I'd check that all the neutral and ground wire retaining screws are snug.

Is there a wiring diagram or schematic that would show where the fridge outlet it tied into the rest of the breaker circuit?

No. The most commonly asked (and answered) question. Every owner wishes GD would create one for their rig (including me).

Howard

[SolitudeAtLast]

Jlawles2

Thanks Joseph & Howard. Good ideas for further troubleshooting. I did get the outer trim off the fireplace, exposing the 4 mounting screws of the fireplace. I’ll tackle more troubleshooting in the next few days. The fridge is running on the extension cord and all other outlets are working normally, so will take my time on further troubleshooting. The outlet does have 120v on the black hot lead. I’ll post results/resolution when its resolved.
Thanks again,
Doug

[ncitro]

SolitudeAtLast I know in mine I had two Molex plugs one under the slide to convert from Romex to SO cord. Then when it came into int inside of the slide there was another Molex where it converted back to Romex. I would definitely be looking to check the Molex plugs.

[TucsonJim]

SolitudeAtLast I know in mine I had two Molex plugs one under the slide to convert from Romex to SO cord. Then when it came into int inside of the slide there was another Molex where it converted back to Romex. I would definitely be looking to check the Molex plugs.

Same here. And here's an example from the belly of my RV. The outer insulation was not trimmed to the correct length, and the inner insulation was cut. It would be very easy for this type of workmanship to result in a wire that did not make contact.


Jim

[SolitudeAtLast]

Problem Found (lsorry for delay, had fridge plugged into another circuit, took my time investigating)
1. Checked Molex connector inside the kitchen slide; all okay.
2. Opened the inspection cover under under the frame where wiring comes out and up into the slide. Molex attached to a steel plate on the outside of the frame with 2 screws. Removed screws and pulled out the plate & wiring. Molex connections were okay. NOTE: Our unit had an inspection opening in the Coroplast right under that corner of the frame, with a zippered cover glued/adhesive to the Coroplast. Zipper wouldn’t work after 2 1/2 years, so I pulled off the cover to get in. Then used small 1/2 in screws every 2in to reattach the cover to the coroplast, since the adhesive wasn’t going to hold again after being pulled off.
3. The romex for the fridge went all the way forward, into the Inverter. The inverter was plugged into the last receptacle of the circuit. So, the residential fridge gets its power from the inverter as the inverter takes the power from the receptacle and passes it thru to the fridge romex. When power is lost, you can turn on the inverter and it will power only the fridge romex, and not back to the rest of the other receptacles.
4. FINDINGS:
a. The clamp on the inverter to hold the romex securely in place had not been tightened at all, and was completely loose.
b. At the small 2-wire connector, the romex neutral (solid copper wire) part of the connector had not been pushed down at all. leaving a potential loose connection. The white neutral from the inverter was properly inserted and connector properly pressed down. The connectors for the black and ground wires were done properly.
c. When the 3 connectors were pushed into the small space inside the inverter, the romex neutral laid over the white inverter neutral. The loose romex neutral eventually resulted in overheating and burned the insulation back for about 2 1/2 inches, causing a burn mark on the white inverter neutral.
d. I repaired with new connector from Ace Hardware, and cutting off the damaged neutral wires.
This was clearly a factory workmanship problem of not getting the connector snapped down properly, and not tightening the clamp on where the romex enters the inverter.

Thanks to the moderators for advice. I was fortunate that I could take my time to trace it thru the connectors all the way back to the inverter.

[SolitudeAtLast]

Basement storage photo (with false wall removed) shows stacked Converter Charger (top) and Inverter (bottom).

[Cate&Rob]

Hi Doug,

Thanks for posting that picture. A good reference for other Solitude owners. Lots of soft hose that could be relatively easily replaced with Pex tubing. I note the black flush soft hose connecting to blue Pex . Yours is not the only one like this . . . I have seen others. Just something to be aware of . . . blue Pex is carrying black tank flush.

Rob