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  • Water Tank Heaters and OneControl

    I own a Momentum with two gray tanks (kitchen/WD)(bathroom), two fresh water tanks (~150 gallons), and one black tank (bathroom). Assumption was the tank heaters for all of them were wired through OneControl and when set to off, power would not reach any of them.

    I'm camped in Arizona and it got below the thermostat setting of the Facon tank heaters for several nights. When I opened the door, I could smell something hot/electrical like when a space heater overheats, etc. Initially, I didn't believe it was me as the only thing I had on was the exterior LED lights. I opened the front bay and pass-through and the smell was not coming from either of them. I even removed the interior panel to make sure.

    The second night, it did it again and it was pretty strong so I turned off the LED lights and although the OneControl switch was off for the tank heaters, I also pulled the fuse. The next night, everything was fine. Although the LEDs were still working, I suspected perhaps a control box was getting hot. I placed the tank heater fuse back in and the next night, the strong smell did not return.

    A couple of days later, it was really bad again and it was then I realized that on the days it happened, the tank heater fuse was installed AND the bathroom gray tank was empty. There had been no changes in the fresh water tank levels (basically empty) and the black tank was more than 1/2 full the whole time. The rear gray tank was too far away. I pulled the tank heaters fuse again and have not had it happen since. I obviously need to check the tank heater on the front gray tank.

    I received the Facon manual with the trailer but the component sheet doesn't list versions, sizes, or where installed. I posted a question on the Grand Design main site a month ago but received NO reply even after following up a week later.

    Does anyone know how the Facon tank heaters are wired on the Momentums? (349M specifically)? It acts like one or more are powered and turn on when below the default thermostat setting even though they have been turned off in OneControl the whole time. I know I'll need to drop the cover and check with a meter/heat sensor but wanted to gather any information you may have first.
    Last edited by Craig Carter; 01-12-2023, 07:38 PM.
    2020 Momentum 349M
    2019 F350 Platinum Super Duty
    U.S. Air Force Retired

  • #2
    Originally posted by Craig Carter View Post
    Does anyone know how the Facon tank heaters are wired on the Momentums? (349M specifically)? It acts like one or more are powered and turn on when below the default thermostat setting even though they have been turned off in OneControl the whole time. I know I'll need to drop the cover and check with a meter/heat sensor but wanted to gather any information you may have first.
    First--USAF retired? Me too.

    I must admit to being a bit confused. There's a 30A fuse in the Power Distribution Panel (PDP) that's labeled "Tank Heater". There's also a Tank Heater Out (see below) on the Unity X4 board (the OneControl "brain"). It was my understanding that the Unity board provided circuit protection using onboard configurable fuses. So I can't connect the PDP 30A "Heated Tank" fuse and the fact that the Unity X4 also has an output. (I expected to only find one or the other, not both.)

    You're sure that pulling the PDP 30A fuse turns off the tank heaters?


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    FYI, I found the tank heater(s) used in your Momentum under ACCESSORIES in the Parts Lookup website (link on main menu above). The part is here: https://www.granddesignrv.com/owner-...s/detail/11240

    Unfortunately GD doesn't link OEM part numbers so it will take some investigation to use the description and find the "real" part number.

    Howard




    Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

    2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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    • #3
      HI Howard, yes Retired USAF (2001) and I really appreciate your reply.

      You make a great point about the OneControl having internal fuse settings and I hadn't reviewed the control board at all since I knew the physical fuse was present. I did go in and update the fuse value for the slide-outs when I first received the RV because it was set too low. I'll need to log into the interface to see if I can find a fuse setting for tank heaters.

      Agree it doesn't really make sense to have both which is why I was looking for wiring schematics. My best guess at this time is some are controlled by OneControl and some are direct wired through that fuse. If true, at least one of them has been coming on automatically whenever the temperature dropped below 45 degrees and perhaps is no longer shutting off 68 degrees (+/- 5 degrees) which is allowing it to overheat. I would prefer to not have them active at all when the switch is off. At this time, I don't know what was installed or how they were wired. Since I haven't received any reply to my emails, I may just need to call GD and open a case.

      I did find the tank heaters under accessories as well but I'm not confident that is the correct size (up to 50 gallons) and/or how many are used on each tank? The included manual shows various sizes and I have five tanks and one fresh water is 100 gallons. The only way to know for certain is to pull the belly, get eyes on each one, and take readings with fuse in/out, switch on/off, etc.

      Do you know what the AMP output of that board connection is? If each of these pull 5.8 AMPS, that would be a total of 29 AMPS for 5 of them. Since the Momentum has a 100 gallon fresh, it may have two pads. Assuming one for each of the smaller tanks and two for the large one, that may be the reason for the extra fuse and some of them being connected directly? (34.8 AMPS total)

      P.S. Similar to other identical items not being controlled via OneControl (rear porch light, rear awning, rear ceiling lights).
      Last edited by Craig Carter; 01-13-2023, 12:34 AM.
      2020 Momentum 349M
      2019 F350 Platinum Super Duty
      U.S. Air Force Retired

      Comment


      • #4
        Craig Carter
        Unfortunately the information provided to the moderators about the 349M doesn't include detailed information about the heaters.

        I remembered discussing heaters in a previous thread and found it: see https://gdrvowners.com/forum/operati...e-tank-heaters

        Specifically take note of post 2 and the FAQ from the manual--you shouldn't have a problem even if the tank(s) are empty.

        In the manual are individual listings for the wattage used by a given heater pad model. They use a nominal 13.5VDC and give the wattage, so expected amperage can be calculated.

        Example--the SL-T1812 is rated at 65 watts. Therefore 65 / 13.5 = 4.8 amps. Each model has a different wattage, so depending on what's actually in your Momentum that could be calculated.

        One more bit of info--the connection on the X4 Unity board is labeled LATCH OUT. If desired, pull the plug and (to my knowledge) the pads will not get power.

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        Suggest a call to GD Customer Service to get the actual configuration information (pad model and location) is warranted.

        Howard

        P.S. I've attached the manual to this response.

        Therma Heat Tank Heater Pad Own - Therma Heat.pdf
        Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

        2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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        • #5
          Howard,

          I'd already searched for and reviewed previous threads but didn't really find what I was looking for. Appreciate the info regarding the plug label on the board.

          While I know Facon states there should not be an issue if the tanks are empty, there could be an issue if one of the thermostats fails for some reason and no longer shuts off at the high temperature limit. It will be interesting to see once I drop the belly to get access to it.

          Craig
          2020 Momentum 349M
          2019 F350 Platinum Super Duty
          U.S. Air Force Retired

          Comment


          • #6
            I just got off of the phone with customer service and they were unable to provide a wiring diagram or clarify why I have an extra 30 AMP breaker when they are supposed to all be wired through OneControl. The specifications they provided were 5.8 AMPS, 65 Watts for each pad and they believe there is only one per tank (29 AMPS total). They said they were ThermaHeat but I received a Facon manual.

            They confirmed the only way to know will be to drop the belly and check the pads and wiring.

            Their documentation states you should not have them turned on when the tanks are empty (maintain at least 1/4" of fluid). Specifically "When you go to vacate your holding tanks you must power “Off” rocker switch(es) prior to doing so."

            In my case, I've never turned them on via OneControl so they should not be powered at all. Removing the 30 AMP fuse resolved my problem so I'm expecting to find one or more wired directly to the fuse box.

            As usual, Jen was great and could only provide what she had available.

            I did access the OneControl setup and did find the Water Tank Heater configuration. It's currently set to a 30A fuse with lockout disabled and "toggle switch". Appears to be fine but just need to figure out what heaters are using that.
            Last edited by Craig Carter; 01-13-2023, 04:17 PM.
            2020 Momentum 349M
            2019 F350 Platinum Super Duty
            U.S. Air Force Retired

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Craig Carter View Post
              I just got off of the phone with customer service and they were unable to provide a wiring diagram or clarify why I have an extra 30 AMP breaker when they are supposed to all be wired through OneControl. The specifications they provided were 5.8 AMPS, 65 Watts for each pad and they believe there is only one per tank (29 AMPS total). They said they were ThermaHeat but I received a Facon manual.

              They confirmed the only way to know will be to drop the belly and check the pads and wiring.

              Their documentation states you should not have them turned on when the tanks are empty (maintain at least 1/4" of fluid). Specifically "When you go to vacate your holding tanks you must power “Off” rocker switch(es) prior to doing so."

              In my case, I've never turned them on via OneControl so they should not be powered at all. Removing the 30 AMP fuse resolved my problem so I'm expecting to find one or more wired directly to the fuse box.

              As usual, Jen was great and could only provide what she had available.

              I did access the OneControl setup and did find the Water Tank Heater configuration. It's currently set to a 30A fuse with lockout disabled and "toggle switch". Appears to be fine but just need to figure out what heaters are using that.
              Yep--confusing to say the least. I'll be very interested in what you find. Please take good notes (and pictures!) if you don't mind documenting the results.

              Howard
              Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

              2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

              Comment


              • #8
                howson The issue appeared again last night even with the fuse pulled and the switch off so I'm going to check to see if they are powered from that board connection regardless of the switch setting. I noticed the OneControl board is flashing a 47 code; are there a list of codes we can get? I've been searching for an online resource but no luck so far.

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                There were multiple programming issues with the OneControl system when I received the RV; (1) The fuse setting in the slide was 5A so it constantly tripped while extending/retracting until I went in and updated it, (2) The Flood and Porch lights were reversed until I went in and renamed them, (3) and there is a second black tank present even though the RV has only one black tank.

                Below are two of the water tank heater screens showing 30A setting, no lock-out, and toggle switch:

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                There is an "Artic Power" cable coming in but I still need to trace that; perhaps it goes to the 30A fuse in the 12V panel?

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                Attached Files
                2020 Momentum 349M
                2019 F350 Platinum Super Duty
                U.S. Air Force Retired

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Craig Carter View Post
                  ​I noticed the OneControl board is flashing a 47 code; are there a list of codes we can get?
                  Hmmm...lots going on!

                  Suggest giving Lippert a call to identify the error code. They will also step you through any programming steps that may be required.

                  https://support.lci1.com/
                  Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                  2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    howson Have some answers:

                    1. The 30A Fuse in the main panel labeled "Tank Heaters" goes directly to the input side of the X4 Unity board labeled "Artic Power". With the fuse out, OneControl would not even activate the tank heaters when I attempted to turn them on. With the fuse in, I have the full 13+ volts to Artic Power. Once I activated the Tank Heaters in OneControl, I then had the same voltage on Artic Out for the tank heaters. All of that appears to be wired correctly and is working.

                    2. The "47" code is just a latching fuse error that apparently sometimes triggers and is not serious (according to Lippert). Based on the programmed fuse number (5), I believe it was the awning light and once I extended the awning and powered it on/off, the flashing code cleared. Lippert support said you could disconnect the X4 board power for a minute and reconnect it to try and clear codes but it wasn't necessary.

                    3. There are three wires coming off of the Artic Out connection (white w/black stripe, white w/orange stripe, and brown w/white stripe). There appeared to be room in the connector for more so it will be interesting to see where these show up underneath since there are supposed to be five panels wired in parallel. The black wire is coming from the Artic Out plug.

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                    2020 Momentum 349M
                    2019 F350 Platinum Super Duty
                    U.S. Air Force Retired

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Craig Carter -- that's awesome info, Craig!

                      When you're done with all of this troubleshooting and posting information, I'll make a summary and post it in the Reference Library (with the info credited to you, of course).

                      Howard
                      Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                      2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        howson I've pulled enough of the lower cover to get access to the front tank warmer labels; the front bathroom gray and front bathroom black are both using the Facon CW-ST725 13.5V, 78 Watt panels (25 inch by 7.25 inch). These are rated for up to 50 gallons according to the Facon manual (page 5). They are also rated at 5.8 Amps each. I believe one/both of these are NOT running through OneControl and have been turning on/off based on thermostat. It's supposed to get below 45 degrees every night for the next week so I'll be able to check temperatures to see if one/both come on as expected. Unfortunately, I'll have to remove a lot more of the cover to access the wire connections.

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                        Attached Files
                        2020 Momentum 349M
                        2019 F350 Platinum Super Duty
                        U.S. Air Force Retired

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          If I remember correctly the tank heaters are on a thermostat that is automatic, there is no need to turn them on or off, but you know what they say about memory.

                          Brian
                          Brian & Michelle
                          2018 Reflection 29RS
                          2022 Chevy 3500HD

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                          • #14
                            Country Campers The tank heaters are switchable (on/off) via OneControl. While they do have thermostats, there is no reason to have them come on and waste power below 45 degrees if there is no water in the tanks. Additionally, I called GD Customer Service and was told they should be turned off unless the tanks have at least 1/4 inch of water in them. The Facon manual even states "Please ensure connection to the proper voltage and on/off switch is used."

                            The issue I'm facing is I've NEVER turned them on this year yet a couple of times when the temperatures fell below 45 degrees, I could smell something electrical and it was coming from the front tank heater locations (suspect the gray tank). I'm trying to confirm wiring and see if there is another issue like heater separating from the tank, etc.

                            I just dropped the plastic and now have access to both; time for some testing.

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                            2020 Momentum 349M
                            2019 F350 Platinum Super Duty
                            U.S. Air Force Retired

                            Comment


                            • #15
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                              The two front bathroom tank heaters are working; I turned them on and checked temps/took FLIR pictures overnight last night. Both have a non-active section with one having a 4-5 wire section out. I'm not sure what the cold spot is on that same heater but I've already ordered new ones since I had this open anyway. I've also ordered manual switches so once the OneControl setting is on, I can still turn on/off the black, gray, and fresh circuits individually. The fresh water tanks could be empty (running on city water) so I like the idea of being able to control them separately.

                              Temperatures were in the upper 60s or below each time I checked and those dark areas were colder confirming no active heating there.
                              2020 Momentum 349M
                              2019 F350 Platinum Super Duty
                              U.S. Air Force Retired

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