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  • Inverter Floating Ground Issue

    I just received a 1KW Renogy inverter and have a floating ground. I'm looking at building an Edison plug so not to be blocked by the onboard EMS. However this model has only 1 AC outlet. I'm wonder if I build an adapter with both a male (for the inverter plug) tied to a female plug (for the AC cord)? My thought is if I can do this, I could then use my12 gauge extension cord to plug into a 30amp to 15 amp dogbone at the AC trailer hookup.

    If this could be done, do I wire one side normally and the other as the N-G bond? I don't know if making this adapter would work or cause damage.

    Or can I do the G-N bond on the outlet itself and just plug in and go?

    I'd prefer not to have return the 1KW unit and upgrade to the 2KW unit for $100+ more. The 1KW fits best into the area I would to mount it.

    Hopefully someone has been through this type of issue and can provide a bit of guidance.
    2020 F-250 Lariat 2WD SuperCrew 6.7L, Blue Ox SwayPro hitch w/ 1000lb bars
    2020 Imagine 2600RD w/ Road Armor + wet bolt suspension, Yakima Longhaul Bike Rack, MicroAir EasyStart 364 for AC, Lion Energy 105 amp Lithiium Ion X2
    Amateur Radio Call N9XGZ
    FMCA # 489460

  • #2
    Originally posted by Running from Gnats View Post
    I just received a 1KW Renogy inverter and have a floating ground. I'm looking at building an Edison plug so not to be blocked by the onboard EMS. However this model has only 1 AC outlet. I'm wonder if I build an adapter with both a male (for the inverter plug) tied to a female plug (for the AC cord)? My thought is if I can do this, I could then use my12 gauge extension cord to plug into a 30amp to 15 amp dogbone at the AC trailer hookup.

    If this could be done, do I wire one side normally and the other as the N-G bond? I don't know if making this adapter would work or cause damage.

    Or can I do the G-N bond on the outlet itself and just plug in and go?

    I'd prefer not to have return the 1KW unit and upgrade to the 2KW unit for $100+ more. The 1KW fits best into the area I would to mount it.

    Hopefully someone has been through this type of issue and can provide a bit of guidance.
    Moved to the Technical Forum > Electrical channel.

    TucsonJim , OffToHavasu (or anyone else)--any insights?
    Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

    2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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    • #3
      Here's how I'd tackle it. I'd plug in a multi-outlet adapter into the inverter. Then I'd plug the Edison plug and extension cord for the RV into the adapter. Something like this:

      https://smile.amazon.com/Electric-54...589317&sr=8-11

      Jim
      Jim and Ginnie
      2024 Solitude 310GK
      GDRV Technical Forum Moderator
      GDRV Rally Support Coordinator

      Comment


      • #4
        Unfortunately there is no clearance for a multi-outlet adapter. However, there are terminals for what they call "high output" for AC requiring more than 8.3 amps. It's designed to hook into the distributed wiring of the trailer. Think connecting Neutral to Ground at this point would give me the "ground" signal the EMS is looking for?
        2020 F-250 Lariat 2WD SuperCrew 6.7L, Blue Ox SwayPro hitch w/ 1000lb bars
        2020 Imagine 2600RD w/ Road Armor + wet bolt suspension, Yakima Longhaul Bike Rack, MicroAir EasyStart 364 for AC, Lion Energy 105 amp Lithiium Ion X2
        Amateur Radio Call N9XGZ
        FMCA # 489460

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Running from Gnats View Post
          Unfortunately there is no clearance for a multi-outlet adapter. However, there are terminals for what they call "high output" for AC requiring more than 8.3 amps. It's designed to hook into the distributed wiring of the trailer. Think connecting Neutral to Ground at this point would give me the "ground" signal the EMS is looking for?
          That sounds reasonable. Here's another way you could do it:

          https://smile.amazon.com/Cablelera-P...2593949&sr=8-5

          Jim
          Jim and Ginnie
          2024 Solitude 310GK
          GDRV Technical Forum Moderator
          GDRV Rally Support Coordinator

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by TucsonJim View Post

            That sounds reasonable. Here's another way you could do it:

            https://smile.amazon.com/Cablelera-P...2593949&sr=8-5

            Jim
            Thanks, that looks interesting. I have to think about this. I see the biggest advantage of tying the N and G together at terminals of it always being in place and one less thing to loose.

            Am I to understand having an Edison Plug on the same circuit provides the bonding no matter which outlet it's plugged into?

            Norris
            2020 F-250 Lariat 2WD SuperCrew 6.7L, Blue Ox SwayPro hitch w/ 1000lb bars
            2020 Imagine 2600RD w/ Road Armor + wet bolt suspension, Yakima Longhaul Bike Rack, MicroAir EasyStart 364 for AC, Lion Energy 105 amp Lithiium Ion X2
            Amateur Radio Call N9XGZ
            FMCA # 489460

            Comment


            • #7
              I'm on the same page a Jim, but I'd go heavier than 16 awg. Places like Home Depot usually have a heaving gauge that contractors use.
              Curtis, Christine, Cole, and Charlotte
              2007 Chevrolet Silverado Duramax LBZ, CCLB
              2020 Momentum 351M
              2004 Essex Vortex

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              • #8
                Like this:

                https://www.amazon.com/Voltec-04-000...2647730&sr=8-5
                Curtis, Christine, Cole, and Charlotte
                2007 Chevrolet Silverado Duramax LBZ, CCLB
                2020 Momentum 351M
                2004 Essex Vortex

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Running from Gnats View Post
                  I just received a 1KW Renogy inverter and have a floating ground. I'm looking at building an Edison plug so not to be blocked by the onboard EMS. However this model has only 1 AC outlet. I'm wonder if I build an adapter with both a male (for the inverter plug) tied to a female plug (for the AC cord)? My thought is if I can do this, I could then use my12 gauge extension cord to plug into a 30amp to 15 amp dogbone at the AC trailer hookup.

                  If this could be done, do I wire one side normally and the other as the N-G bond? I don't know if making this adapter would work or cause damage.

                  Or can I do the G-N bond on the outlet itself and just plug in and go?

                  I'd prefer not to have return the 1KW unit and upgrade to the 2KW unit for $100+ more. The 1KW fits best into the area I would to mount it.

                  Hopefully someone has been through this type of issue and can provide a bit of guidance.
                  This may be a stupid question(s) so please forgive me. I see from the manual on the Renogy site that your inverter has a spot to attach a ground (neutral) wire. Did you attach this to a bare metal spot on the frame? Wouldn't this keep you from having a "floating" neutral?
                  Norm & Karla
                  2019 Imagine 2150rb
                  2018 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD
                  2016 - 2018 Hobie Kayaks

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Oregon Fun-Guy View Post

                    This may be a stupid question(s) so please forgive me. I see from the manual on the Renogy site that your inverter has a spot to attach a ground (neutral) wire. Did you attach this to a bare metal spot on the frame? Wouldn't this keep you from having a "floating" neutral?
                    Neutral and Ground should only be bonded at the source of the electricity. This is how the (safety) ground can carry the current back to the source if there is a break elsewhere in the circuit. You would not want N & G connected through the generator wiring when you are on shore power.

                    Rob
                    Cate & Rob
                    (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
                    2015 Reflection 303RLS
                    2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                    Bayham, Ontario, Canada

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post

                      Neutral and Ground should only be bonded at the source of the electricity. This is how the (safety) ground can carry the current back to the source if there is a break elsewhere in the circuit. You would not want N & G connected through the generator wiring when you are on shore power.

                      Rob
                      Have you been reading your handbook?
                      Curtis, Christine, Cole, and Charlotte
                      2007 Chevrolet Silverado Duramax LBZ, CCLB
                      2020 Momentum 351M
                      2004 Essex Vortex

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post

                        Neutral and Ground should only be bonded at the source of the electricity. This is how the (safety) ground can carry the current back to the source if there is a break elsewhere in the circuit. You would not want N & G connected through the generator wiring when you are on shore power.

                        Rob
                        Oregon Fun-Guy

                        Rob - I believe this question is for the DC ground on the case of the inverter. From the Renogy manual:

                        "Grounding

                        The Renogy Pure Sine Wave inverters come equipped with a grounding lug for appropriate grounding to earth ground or to another designated ground (For example, a metal frame of an RV). The connections to ground must be tight and against bare metal. Whether using the inverter in a mobile application, such as an RV or in a building, grounding is highly recommended. The recommended wire size for grounding is 10 AWG insulated copper strand wire. For more information regarding grounding, users and/or installers must consult with the Local and National Electric Codes (NEC) for more specific grounding regulations and suggestions as they can change per scenario."

                        On my 2,000W inverter, I ran 10AWG copper wire to the frame. I scraped off the paint and screwed the wire to the frame to provide the ground.

                        Jim
                        Jim and Ginnie
                        2024 Solitude 310GK
                        GDRV Technical Forum Moderator
                        GDRV Rally Support Coordinator

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I contacted WFCO who supplies the converter/charger for our Imagine 2600RB. I asked if they had a unit which is 1) multi type charger (flooded/AGM/Lithium) and 2) if so, could the converter/charger be a direct swap without changing out the entire power center.

                          Here is the answer they provided:

                          "We are coming out with a converter that will charge both types of batteries shortly. You would have to replace the entire power center though."

                          They did not give an estimate on timing or costs in the email.
                          Last edited by Running from Gnats; 03-03-2020, 10:59 PM.
                          2020 F-250 Lariat 2WD SuperCrew 6.7L, Blue Ox SwayPro hitch w/ 1000lb bars
                          2020 Imagine 2600RD w/ Road Armor + wet bolt suspension, Yakima Longhaul Bike Rack, MicroAir EasyStart 364 for AC, Lion Energy 105 amp Lithiium Ion X2
                          Amateur Radio Call N9XGZ
                          FMCA # 489460

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by TucsonJim View Post

                            Oregon Fun-Guy

                            Rob - I believe this question is for the DC ground on the case of the inverter. From the Renogy manual:

                            "Grounding

                            The Renogy Pure Sine Wave inverters come equipped with a grounding lug for appropriate grounding to earth ground or to another designated ground (For example, a metal frame of an RV). The connections to ground must be tight and against bare metal. Whether using the inverter in a mobile application, such as an RV or in a building, grounding is highly recommended. The recommended wire size for grounding is 10 AWG insulated copper strand wire. For more information regarding grounding, users and/or installers must consult with the Local and National Electric Codes (NEC) for more specific grounding regulations and suggestions as they can change per scenario."

                            On my 2,000W inverter, I ran 10AWG copper wire to the frame. I scraped off the paint and screwed the wire to the frame to provide the ground.

                            Jim
                            I know this is an old thread, but I cannot really find any definitive answer to best practices for grounding in inverter. I'm about to install an Renogy 2000 W inverter... My thoughts were.
                            • Connect the chassis ground to the DC- bus bar, which is directly connected to the frame with a 2 AWG cable.
                            • Route the AC power into a small Square-D power distirbution box, where AC N & G will be connected on a bus bar.
                            • Ground the Square-D box to the frame with a separate 10 AWG to the same point on the frame.
                            • The PDP will be on a WFCO distribution switch, which will keep the AC N/G and DC- isolated in the RV, and bonded via the shore receptical when on shore power, and bonded at the Inverter power box when on the inverted.
                            For some context, I have all the DC- loads routing to a bus bar, which is grounded by the 2 AWG cable on the street-side tongue.
                            The 7-pin junction box ground is routed to the curb side tongue with a 10 AWG. Since the brakes, and the e-brakes run DC- back to the junction box, it seems like a good idea to keep the redundant ground connection.

                            Thoughts?
                            - Eric P. (2021 Transcend XPLOR 200MK)

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                            • #15
                              epearce

                              Check out Victron's (free) Wiring Unlimited ebook at https://www.victronenergy.com › upload › documents › Wiring-Unlimited-EN.pdf​ . Chapter 7 has a lot of information on the topic. (Some specific to Victron, but it applies to similar components.)
                              Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                              2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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