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  • Victron Inverter / Battleborn Battery Install Question(s)!

    First off, hello from New Mexico! I've been here a while and have really enjoyed reading the posts on the forum. I'm in the final stages of gathering materials to install a victron 12/3000 inverter and three battleborn batteries but have a couple questions to clear up in my mind before starting.

    1. The installation of the inverter calls for the AC input be protected by a circuit breaker. I've seen some installations and diagrams that include an additional main breaker prior to the inverter, where many more installations do not include this additional breaker box. Is it correct to assume that if shore power is originating from a circuit protected pedestal then this requirement has been met and there isn't a need to install a new breaker box in the rv?

    2. I understand that the oem converter/charger cannot run concurrently with the inverter. Can the breaker to the converter simply be shut off or is it recommended that it be completely disconnected?

    3. I think I read somewhere that since the lithium batteries charge at such a different rate than a flooded battery that they could effect the battery in the tow vehicle when connected. Did I read that wrong or does the current setup prevent that?

    That's all I can think of right now, any comments are appreciated.
    Brian
    2017 Silverado 2500 HD diesel
    2018 Reflection 230RL

  • #2
    Originally posted by Retgw2 View Post
    First off, hello from New Mexico! I've been here a while and have really enjoyed reading the posts on the forum. I'm in the final stages of gathering materials to install a victron 12/3000 inverter and three battleborn batteries but have a couple questions to clear up in my mind before starting.

    1. The installation of the inverter calls for the AC input be protected by a circuit breaker. I've seen some installations and diagrams that include an additional main breaker prior to the inverter, where many more installations do not include this additional breaker box. Is it correct to assume that if shore power is originating from a circuit protected pedestal then this requirement has been met and there isn't a need to install a new breaker box in the rv?

    2. I understand that the oem converter/charger cannot run concurrently with the inverter. Can the breaker to the converter simply be shut off or is it recommended that it be completely disconnected?

    3. I think I read somewhere that since the lithium batteries charge at such a different rate than a flooded battery that they could effect the battery in the tow vehicle when connected. Did I read that wrong or does the current setup prevent that?

    That's all I can think of right now, any comments are appreciated.
    Hello from NW Florida, Brian! As you've been here awhile surely you've seen my thread on the inverter / Battle Born installation in my 315RLTS. If not--link here: https://gdrvowners.com/forum/operati...s-in-a-315rlts

    I am not an electrician--there are folks here who know far more than yours truly, so weigh my response accordingly.

    To your questions.

    1) Breaker: AMSolar's diagram for their Victron Multiplus Inverter Kit does run through the main panel. (Their diagrams are here: https://amsolar.com/rv-solar/support)

    There are even more diagrams in their archive: https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...C1YbLzdNrrT32E

    Click image for larger version

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    Mine isn't wired with a main breaker on the trailer side...and my system design was approved by AMSolar engineers. So in my case, yes, the input side of my inverter setup is protected by the pedestal.

    Click image for larger version

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    2. With the work you'll be doing I suspect you'll find it is very easy to just pull the converter. If you have the same WFCO I have, it has a NEMA plug that inserts into the back of your distribution panel so removal couldn't be easier.

    3. I *think* modern vehicles have circuitry that prevents the flow of energy from trailer to TV. Guest (Jim) can probably speak to that issue on your truck. It's never been an issue on my Ford.

    I look forward to reading more about your setup and install. I hope you'll keep posting!

    -Howard
    Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

    2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by howson View Post

      Hello from NW Florida, Brian! As you've been here awhile surely you've seen my thread on the inverter / Battle Born installation in my 315RLTS. If not--link here: https://gdrvowners.com/forum/operati...s-in-a-315rlts

      I am not an electrician--there are folks here who know far more than yours truly, so weigh my response accordingly.

      To your questions.

      1) Breaker: AMSolar's diagram for their Victron Multiplus Inverter Kit does run through the main panel. (Their diagrams are here: https://amsolar.com/rv-solar/support)

      There are even more diagrams in their archive: https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...C1YbLzdNrrT32E

      Click image for larger version

Name:	AMSolar1.JPG
Views:	1424
Size:	94.9 KB
ID:	13304

      Mine isn't wired with a main breaker on the trailer side...and my system design was approved by AMSolar engineers. So in my case, yes, the input side of my inverter setup is protected by the pedestal.

      Click image for larger version

Name:	AMSOlar 2.JPG
Views:	3211
Size:	131.3 KB
ID:	13305

      2. With the work you'll be doing I suspect you'll find it is very easy to just pull the converter. If you have the same WFCO I have, it has a NEMA plug that inserts into the back of your distribution panel so removal couldn't be easier.

      3. I *think* modern vehicles have circuitry that prevents the flow of energy from trailer to TV. Guest (Jim) can probably speak to that issue on your truck. It's never been an issue on my Ford.

      I look forward to reading more about your setup and install. I hope you'll keep posting!

      -Howard
      Thank you Howard!

      I have followed your installation and downloaded the pdf presentation. I suspected I already knew the answers but you know how that can go sometimes. It will probably be another month before I can get started but am so looking forward to getting more flexibility out of the trailers systems.
      Brian
      2017 Silverado 2500 HD diesel
      2018 Reflection 230RL

      Comment


      • #4
        I think I read somewhere that since the lithium batteries charge at such a different rate than a flooded battery that they could effect the battery in the tow vehicle when connected. Did I read that wrong or does the current setup prevent that?


        Brian,

        Your GM truck will increase system voltage levels to the charge line on your 7 pin connector when the Tow/Haul mode button is activated. I however do not know what this voltage level is and would need to measure it. Also the original intent is to aid in charging a lead acid deep cycle battery where OEMs are not offering up any special treatment for RV Lithium batteries that I am aware of. My concern since I have recently purchased a Lithium battery is avoiding overcharging the Lithium battery and not relying on the BMS to control this. As a result, I'm planning on installing a DC DC charger like Howard has already done. This will ensure the constant current/constant voltage (different charge algorithm from lead acid types) is delivered to the battery but most importantly, the charger will turn off when the battery is fully charged while traveling.

        Jim

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by MidwestCamper View Post
          I think I read somewhere that since the lithium batteries charge at such a different rate than a flooded battery that they could effect the battery in the tow vehicle when connected. Did I read that wrong or does the current setup prevent that?


          Brian,

          Your GM truck will increase system voltage levels to the charge line on your 7 pin connector when the Tow/Haul mode button is activated. I however do not know what this voltage level is and would need to measure it. Also the original intent is to aid in charging a lead acid deep cycle battery where OEMs are not offering up any special treatment for RV Lithium batteries that I am aware of. My concern since I have recently purchased a Lithium battery is avoiding overcharging the Lithium battery and not relying on the BMS to control this. As a result, I'm planning on installing a DC DC charger like Howard has already done. This will ensure the constant current/constant voltage (different charge algorithm from lead acid types) is delivered to the battery but most importantly, the charger will turn off when the battery is fully charged while traveling.

          Jim
          Jim,

          So if I understand you correctly there really is no concern for the tow vehicles battery but just the opposite for the trailers lithium batteries IF the batteries BMS fails to protect it from over charging. Thanks for that clarification and I've also been following Howard's DC/DC install with interest.

          Brian
          Brian
          2017 Silverado 2500 HD diesel
          2018 Reflection 230RL

          Comment


          • #6
            Brian,

            This would be my understanding. Since there are a variety of opinions out there if its acceptable to have a Lithium battery tied to the TV lead acid battery I decided to connect them indirectly through the Renogy charger. The BMS will protect the Lithium battery but I do not want to rely on a single device but rather control the charge and have the BMS serve as redundant protection.

            The Renogy charger from their description will draw more current than what it puts out where I read this as a voltage boosting function to ensure the higher voltage required by the Lithium battery. An EE or electricians opinion would be welcome if I'm reading into this correctly.

            Jim
            Last edited by Guest; 03-05-2020, 06:35 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by MidwestCamper View Post
              Brian,

              This would be my understanding. Since there are a variety of opinions out there if its acceptable to have a Lithium battery tied to the TV lead acid battery I decided to connect them indirectly through the Renogy charger. The BMS will protect the Lithium battery but I do not want to rely on a single device but rather control the charge and have the BMS serve as redundant protection.

              The Renogy charger from their description will draw more current than what it puts out where I read this as a voltage boosting function to ensure the higher voltage required by the Lithium battery. An EE or electricians opinion would be welcome if I'm reading into this correctly.

              Jim
              Hi Jim,

              Using the Renogy DC-DC charger protects your alternator from overheating.
              If the BB batteries were somewhat discharged the truck alternator would put out as much current (+150 amps) as possible to charge the batteries.
              The alternator could overheat and self-destruct if your were idling along in traffic where there isn't enough airflow through the alternator's cooling fan.
              Also the Renogy shuts off when your truck ignition is turned off so there's no back feed of the BB batteries charging the tow vehicle battery.
              You can also use a function of the BMV-712 to turn off the Renogy preventing an overvoltage condition of the BB batteries.
              Hope this helps.

              Best regards,

              Jon

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks Jon,

                I will be using the 20amp Renogy and have been planning to activate the ignition circuit by connecting it to the RV marker lights. Once I re-wire my back up camera to the marker lights I will be able to control both functions from the truck without much additional wiring.
                I was not aware of the additional BMV712 function where its always nice to have several options. I purchased the smart version and will plan to mount this in the passthrough. Having blue tooth communication in what's going on with the Lithium battery on the RV will be nice.

                Jim

                Comment


                • #9
                  Wanted to get in a short update as a thanks to the previous replies to my questions. Since my trailer is in storage (super jealous of those who have room at home to park an rv) and I have to work around the covid stay at home orders it is taking longer than I would like. None the less all of the DC connections have been completed. I'm really happy with the modular type of connections that the BEP electrical components have that makes for an easy and clean installation.

                  Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1693.jpg
Views:	1747
Size:	113.8 KB
ID:	17213

                  As a couple side notes that came up during this work one of my earlier questions answered itself when I found that there is a separate pigtail circuit connected to the load wire of the converter/charger that would have lost power if I would have simply turned off the circuit breaker. Unlike howson my converter is hardwired into the power distribution center so I had to disconnect the pigtailed circuit and reinstall it into the circuit breaker to maintain it's power. If anyone happens to know what this separate blue colored romex circuit feeds i would be interested to know. Without checking all of the circuit individually all I can see at this point is that the line disappears up into the wall above the power distribution center.

                  The other thing I found was that the OEM positive battery cable was only hand tight at best to the relay circuit and I wonder if that was causing the intermittent error I was receiving in my truck to check the trailer connection while towing that I think Jim Guest mentioned in another post.

                  Anyway the AC connections are next along with running lines for the monitors!
                  Brian
                  2017 Silverado 2500 HD diesel
                  2018 Reflection 230RL

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Retgw2 View Post
                    ...my converter is hardwired into the power distribution center so I had to disconnect the pigtailed circuit and reinstall it into the circuit breaker to maintain it's power. If anyone happens to know what this separate blue colored romex circuit feeds i would be interested to know. Without checking all of the circuit individually all I can see at this point is that the line disappears up into the wall above the power distribution center.
                    Brian,
                    No idea what those wires are by consulting the 230's Electric Plan. The Converter is (supposed to be) by itself on circuit G. The only other 120v electrical item even close is the outlet under the flip-up counter extension. On the electric plan it's on circuit "B" (GFCI) but perhaps whomever wired your camper decided differently? Easy enough to test. Let us know what you find.

                    Howard

                    Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                    2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by howson View Post

                      Brian,
                      No idea what those wires are by consulting the 230's Electric Plan. The Converter is (supposed to be) by itself on circuit G. The only other 120v electrical item even close is the outlet under the flip-up counter extension. On the electric plan it's on circuit "B" (GFCI) but perhaps whomever wired your camper decided differently? Easy enough to test. Let us know what you find.

                      Howard
                      Howard @howson,

                      Is there anyway to get a copy of the 230's Electric Plan?

                      Brian
                      Brian
                      2017 Silverado 2500 HD diesel
                      2018 Reflection 230RL

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Retgw2 View Post

                        Howard @howson,

                        Is there anyway to get a copy of the 230's Electric Plan?

                        Brian
                        Absolutely. GDRV-Megan will send you an Electric Plan for your 230RL since your VIN is your profile. Keep in mind it is *not* a "schematic". Also, be very skeptical of it even as it is. The one for my 315 is not right. I highly encourage you to map out your trailer yourself, one outlet/circuit breaker at a time and then one 12v fuse at a time. Painful, but worth it!

                        She'll send the plan by Private Message, so keep an eye out for it.

                        Give Megan a few days to respond. She will get to it, but it may take a bit.

                        Howard
                        Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                        2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by howson View Post

                          Absolutely. GDRV-Megan will send you an Electric Plan for your 230RL since your VIN is your profile. Keep in mind it is *not* a "schematic". Also, be very skeptical of it even as it is. The one for my 315 is not right. I highly encourage you to map out your trailer yourself, one outlet/circuit breaker at a time and then one 12v fuse at a time. Painful, but worth it!

                          She'll send the plan by Private Message, so keep an eye out for it.

                          Give Megan a few days to respond. She will get to it, but it may take a bit.

                          Howard
                          Thank you Howard!
                          Brian
                          2017 Silverado 2500 HD diesel
                          2018 Reflection 230RL

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Retgw2 View Post
                            Wanted to get in a short update as a thanks to the previous replies to my questions. Since my trailer is in storage (super jealous of those who have room at home to park an rv) and I have to work around the covid stay at home orders it is taking longer than I would like. None the less all of the DC connections have been completed. I'm really happy with the modular type of connections that the BEP electrical components have that makes for an easy and clean installation.

                            Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1693.jpg
Views:	1747
Size:	113.8 KB
ID:	17213

                            As a couple side notes that came up during this work one of my earlier questions answered itself when I found that there is a separate pigtail circuit connected to the load wire of the converter/charger that would have lost power if I would have simply turned off the circuit breaker. Unlike howson my converter is hardwired into the power distribution center so I had to disconnect the pigtailed circuit and reinstall it into the circuit breaker to maintain it's power. If anyone happens to know what this separate blue colored romex circuit feeds i would be interested to know. Without checking all of the circuit individually all I can see at this point is that the line disappears up into the wall above the power distribution center.

                            The other thing I found was that the OEM positive battery cable was only hand tight at best to the relay circuit and I wonder if that was causing the intermittent error I was receiving in my truck to check the trailer connection while towing that I think Jim Guest mentioned in another post.

                            Anyway the AC connections are next along with running lines for the monitors!
                            Brian,

                            If you were not getting codes with the trailer disconnected from the truck, this could have been triggering the message in your IP while underway.

                            Jim

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              So I have a head scratcher with my install that hopefully those of you with more knowledge than I will have an explanation for.

                              As a refresher my battery/inverter install includes 3 Battleborn lithium batteries, a Victron 12/3000 inverter, a BMV-712 battery monitor and a Victron Color Control GX. I ran the typical battery connections through 2 BEP brand battery switches. The first switch isolates the batteries from the entire electrical system while the second switch isolates the inverter from the battery power.

                              Anyway, when I turn on the first battery switch the 12 volt portion of the electrical system lights up and all is good! Yay!! The battery monitor has indicated good numbers from 13.42 to 13.6 volts (depending on when I did it). Then when I turn on the second switch to power the inverter the entire system including the previously operating 12 volt leg goes dead and the batteries show around 2 volts through a multi-meter. The one thing I will add is that when this happens I had the main 30amp AC switch in the power distribution center turned off.

                              When I talked to Battleborn's technical support they suggested that I check the voltage of each battery and make sure that there isn't an issue with one of them. By time I can get the batteries disconnected from each other the BMS(s) have reset and they are all reading good voltage and equal to each other. Another interesting point is that technical support told me than when the voltage drops to that level it will take a 12 volt jump to reset the BMS, but that hasn't been the case and it/they do it on their own within a couple of minutes.

                              To further confuse me, if I plug into shore power I do not get the same results and the 12 volt system stays powered up even if I then disconnect from the shore power. Additionally I have not (at least yet) had the same issue when the main power distribution 30amp switch is turned on before sending 12 volt power to the inverter. In that case the 12 volt system stays active and the inverter powers up like it is supposed to.

                              I assume that the batteries BMS is not liking something and shutting the batteries down to protect them, but from what? Any thoughts would be appreciated cuz it's driving me nuts.
                              Brian
                              2017 Silverado 2500 HD diesel
                              2018 Reflection 230RL

                              Comment

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