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  • Battery wire sizing for optional factory 300w solar system

    We picked up our 2020 Solitude 310GK-R yesterday with the optional 300w factory solar system. I see two problems so far:

    1- There is one 4/0 wire from the 2000w inverter to the positive side of one battery and another 4/0 wire from the inverter to the negative side of the second battery. However, the dealer installed either 8awg or 6awg wires (didn't look that close) to connect the batteries in parallel. I'm no electrical engineer but it seems to me the wires connecting the batteries should also be 4/0. Is that correct? If so, it seems Grand Design should instruct the dealers in the correct way to wire up the batteries.

    2- I'm getting an error on the Jaboni solar charge controller. It displays "Error Code 01: High Bat Voltage". I looked at the Jaboni manual and it says this error can be caused by "The battery bank is receiving charge from another controller; Battery cable loose or was disconnected while charging." I tightened the rats nest of wires connected to the batteries but I still get the error even after turning the charge controller on and off several times. Has anybody else seen this error?
    Last edited by bertschb; 03-31-2020, 09:39 PM.
    Brian & Kellie
    2020 Grand Design Solitude 310GK-R, FBP, MORryde IS, 1,460w solar and 540ah BBGC3
    2020 Ford F-350 Platinum SRW PSD Tremor, 60g TF fuel tank, Hensley BD3-F air bag hitch

    Previous setups:
    2019 Grand Design Solitude 373FB-R, 2019 Ford F-350 Platinum DRW Powerstroke, Hensley BD5 air bag hitch
    2016 Grand Design Reflection 318RST, 2016 GMC 3500 Denali SRW Duramax, Hensley BD3 air bag hitch

  • #2
    Hi Brian,

    Congratulations on the new rig!
    Your assumption in question 1 is correct. All the battery wires should be the same (heavier) gauge.
    I can't offer an opinion on your second question . . . I’m sure the solar experts will be along shortly!

    Rob
    Cate & Rob
    (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
    2015 Reflection 303RLS
    2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
    Bayham, Ontario, Canada

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post
      Your assumption in question 1 is correct. All the battery wires should be the same (heavier) gauge.
      Thanks for confirming that Rob. Looks like I need to order more wire and lugs :-(

      I had my dealer swap the lead acid batteries they installed in error for my LiFePO4 batteries. I thought that would take 5 minutes. But, the "technician" spent 45 minutes modifying the top of the battery boxes and venting. I guess he hasn't got the message that LiFePO4 batteries don't need to be vented. I was going to ask the dealer to replace the battery wires with the correct size but after seeing their wiring jobs on the past three rigs we've bought from them, I'll pass. They do a great job prepping their RV's but their wiring guys need to go back to school.
      Last edited by bertschb; 03-31-2020, 09:47 PM.
      Brian & Kellie
      2020 Grand Design Solitude 310GK-R, FBP, MORryde IS, 1,460w solar and 540ah BBGC3
      2020 Ford F-350 Platinum SRW PSD Tremor, 60g TF fuel tank, Hensley BD3-F air bag hitch

      Previous setups:
      2019 Grand Design Solitude 373FB-R, 2019 Ford F-350 Platinum DRW Powerstroke, Hensley BD5 air bag hitch
      2016 Grand Design Reflection 318RST, 2016 GMC 3500 Denali SRW Duramax, Hensley BD3 air bag hitch

      Comment


      • #4
        bertschb -- the wires connecting the batteries to each other do not need to be 4/0. Assuming your LifePO4 batteries have a max output 100 amps from a single battery, the wire connecting the batteries in parallel don't have to be 4/0. Since you have two batteries, the total output is 200 amps to the inverter, so that wire must be able to carry all 200 amps. 4/0 is appropriate for that segment.

        The main wire going from the battery bank to the inverter on my setup is 4/0. The interconnecting battery wires are 2/0. You can certainly go with 4/0 to interconnect your batteries, but that large gauge is not needed. Below is a snip from my diagram:

        Click image for larger version  Name:	snip of diagram.JPG Views:	0 Size:	79.8 KB ID:	15793

        Not convinced? Below is one of many examples from AMSolar's wiring archives https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...C1YbLzdNrrT32E

        Click image for larger version  Name:	AMSolar.JPG Views:	0 Size:	85.1 KB ID:	15792

        For the solar controller error--I'm afraid your issue is not unique. Jim Kerr on Facebook is a good resource for you as he just went through all of this. While I wish the conversation would happen here, the goal is to get you help not boost the post count here.

        Click image for larger version  Name:	Jim Kerr.JPG Views:	0 Size:	166.4 KB ID:	15794
        Last edited by howson; 04-01-2020, 10:22 AM.
        Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

        2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

        Comment


        • #5
          bertschb howson
          Brian & Howard:

          Howard is (of course) correct if the current from each battery is limited to 100 amps by the batteries rather than the draw from the inverter. (This is where my knowledge of lithium battery systems is lacking).

          In my lead/acid/battery bank experience, the batteries will give all that they can to meet the demands of the inverter. There is also the possibility that one battery has failed (or been shut off in my installation, since I have a switch on each individual battery in the bank). This could mean several hundred amps from one battery (for a brief time) to cover the start-up load of some device. In this situation, wiring of too small a gauge will cause a voltage drop that will shut down the inverter.

          I would go with Howard's advice on this topic.

          ​​​​​​​Rob
          Cate & Rob
          (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
          2015 Reflection 303RLS
          2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
          Bayham, Ontario, Canada

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks for the Facebook info Howard. I VERY begrudgingly logged back into FB after being off that site for two years. I really need help with the Jaboni charge controller errors so I'm desperate...
            Brian & Kellie
            2020 Grand Design Solitude 310GK-R, FBP, MORryde IS, 1,460w solar and 540ah BBGC3
            2020 Ford F-350 Platinum SRW PSD Tremor, 60g TF fuel tank, Hensley BD3-F air bag hitch

            Previous setups:
            2019 Grand Design Solitude 373FB-R, 2019 Ford F-350 Platinum DRW Powerstroke, Hensley BD5 air bag hitch
            2016 Grand Design Reflection 318RST, 2016 GMC 3500 Denali SRW Duramax, Hensley BD3 air bag hitch

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by bertschb View Post
              Thanks for the Facebook info Howard. I VERY begrudgingly logged back into FB after being off that site for two years. I really need help with the Jaboni charge controller errors so I'm desperate...
              If you'd like I'll ask Jim Kerr if he'll post over here...I personally really dislike how convoluted a Facebook conversation can get with all the intertwining threads.
              Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

              2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by howson View Post
                If you'd like I'll ask Jim Kerr if he'll post over here...I personally really dislike how convoluted a Facebook conversation can get with all the intertwining threads.
                Thanks for the offer Howard but that's not necessary. I asked to join the Grand Design solar group on Facebook. Just waiting to be "accepted". I really appreciate the head's up for a possible solution to the error I'm getting.
                Brian & Kellie
                2020 Grand Design Solitude 310GK-R, FBP, MORryde IS, 1,460w solar and 540ah BBGC3
                2020 Ford F-350 Platinum SRW PSD Tremor, 60g TF fuel tank, Hensley BD3-F air bag hitch

                Previous setups:
                2019 Grand Design Solitude 373FB-R, 2019 Ford F-350 Platinum DRW Powerstroke, Hensley BD5 air bag hitch
                2016 Grand Design Reflection 318RST, 2016 GMC 3500 Denali SRW Duramax, Hensley BD3 air bag hitch

                Comment


                • #9
                  Update on factory Jaboni solar charge controller Error 01 - High Bat Voltage:
                  After reading a bunch of Facebook posts, it appears the most common problem people are experiencing with this Jaboni controller are wiring related. Some folks are reporting Grand Design used 12awg rather than 10awg Jaboni recommends in the wiring from the solar panel to the charge controller and controller to the batteries. I wasn't able to determine what mine are. I checked the wires going into the controller and they seemed snug but a couple of them didn't seem to be seated as far as the others so I removed the wires and reseated them. This seems to have partially worked because the controller started charging again with no error - for about 10 minutes. What was different today is the charge controller was cycling between the "High Bat Voltage" error message and actually charging properly. Last night it seemed to just be stuck on the error message.

                  The other thing I did today was use the inverter to run the vacuum cleaner and one of the 110 outlets in the bedroom to pump up the Sleep Number bed. After doing this, the solar charge controller was bulk charging the batteries at around 9 amps. It's almost like the charge controller errors out with the high bat voltage when the battery is full. Seems to work fine when it's bulk charging. I dunno. At this point, this is the only part of the new Solitude I'm not liking. I will most likely just replace the Jaboni solar charge controller with a Victron because Victron seems to have better documentation, a much larger following and I love their app.

                  I'll have to admit it's pretty cool having the 2,000w inverter. It's not very big so it can't run much but just being able to run a few things on A/C from the batteries is pretty cool. I can see why people geek out on this stuff and add huge solar/battery systems to their RV!
                  Brian & Kellie
                  2020 Grand Design Solitude 310GK-R, FBP, MORryde IS, 1,460w solar and 540ah BBGC3
                  2020 Ford F-350 Platinum SRW PSD Tremor, 60g TF fuel tank, Hensley BD3-F air bag hitch

                  Previous setups:
                  2019 Grand Design Solitude 373FB-R, 2019 Ford F-350 Platinum DRW Powerstroke, Hensley BD5 air bag hitch
                  2016 Grand Design Reflection 318RST, 2016 GMC 3500 Denali SRW Duramax, Hensley BD3 air bag hitch

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I have no familiarity with the Jaboni solar charger you are asking about but I have had over voltage problems with Lithium battery charging. I recently converted to a Lithium battery and the charger in my GoPower charger/inverter began getting over voltage faults. After many discussions with the GoPower support (which is excellent), they determined that the battery monitor in the battery generates a very short transient 17+ volt signal to the charger while shutting off charging when the battery is fully charged. It is harmless because it is a transient but the charger firmware over reacts to it and shuts down. They are in the process of testing a firmware fix against a wide range of Lithium batteries before propagating it to people who need it. Something similar could be going on with Jaboni controller - just speculation. The symptom is that the charger works fine when the battery is discharged and charging but will error as the charging completes. Just fyi.
                    2018 Reflection 303rls
                    MORryde IS, FlexArmor roof
                    Blue Ox Super Ride hitch
                    2017 Ford F350 CCSB SRW

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by wygieman View Post
                      The symptom is that the charger works fine when the battery is discharged and charging but will error as the charging completes. Just fyi.
                      I really appreciate the reply. I'll contact Jaboni and ask if their charger is doing something similar to your GoPower.
                      Brian & Kellie
                      2020 Grand Design Solitude 310GK-R, FBP, MORryde IS, 1,460w solar and 540ah BBGC3
                      2020 Ford F-350 Platinum SRW PSD Tremor, 60g TF fuel tank, Hensley BD3-F air bag hitch

                      Previous setups:
                      2019 Grand Design Solitude 373FB-R, 2019 Ford F-350 Platinum DRW Powerstroke, Hensley BD5 air bag hitch
                      2016 Grand Design Reflection 318RST, 2016 GMC 3500 Denali SRW Duramax, Hensley BD3 air bag hitch

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Fyi the GoPower techs said it took a bunch of work with an oscilloscope to see the problem as it is a very short transient.
                        2018 Reflection 303rls
                        MORryde IS, FlexArmor roof
                        Blue Ox Super Ride hitch
                        2017 Ford F350 CCSB SRW

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          wygieman
                          Thanks for adding what you know, to this discussion, It is researched and knowledgeable input like yours that makes this forum as valuable as it is.

                          Rob
                          Cate & Rob
                          (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
                          2015 Reflection 303RLS
                          2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                          Bayham, Ontario, Canada

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post
                            bertschb howson
                            Brian & Howard:

                            Howard is (of course) correct if the current from each battery is limited to 100 amps by the batteries rather than the draw from the inverter. (This is where my knowledge of lithium battery systems is lacking).

                            In my lead/acid/battery bank experience, the batteries will give all that they can to meet the demands of the inverter. There is also the possibility that one battery has failed (or been shut off in my installation, since I have a switch on each individual battery in the bank). This could mean several hundred amps from one battery (for a brief time) to cover the start-up load of some device. In this situation, wiring of too small a gauge will cause a voltage drop that will shut down the inverter.

                            I would go with Howard's advice on this topic.

                            Rob
                            Guys,

                            I believe the Lions Energy batteries will allow up to 150A discharge. Or >150A for 50 seconds which would result in the BMS shutting the battery down. Nice info on the wire sizing where someday I may add some panels.

                            Jim

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by MidwestCamper View Post

                              Guys,

                              I believe the Lions Energy batteries will allow up to 150A discharge. Or >150A for 50 seconds which would result in the BMS shutting the battery down. Nice info on the wire sizing where someday I may add some panels.

                              Jim
                              Battle Borns also have a surge capacity (#2 and #3 below). They can do it--but certainly not something anyone should (IMO) plan on regularly utilizing! From their website https://battlebornbatteries.com/life...surge-ratings/

                              1. 100 amps continuous (1200 watts at 12 volts) – this means you can pull 100 amps out of the battery when you need it until the capacity is all used up. This would be a 1C discharge rate.

                              2. 200 amps for 30 seconds (2400 watts at 12 volts) – if your device has a surge an individual battery can deliver 2400 watts for 30 seconds.

                              3. ½ second surge up to the max capacity of the battery. If you have a high momentary over 200 amps the battery will handle this for ½ second.

                              Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                              2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

                              Comment

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