2018 2150RB Electrical plan

[dpruitt]

Hi, I have installed a larger battery bank/box and am currently installing an inverter and GoPower 30A automatic transfer switch to enhance our boon docking capabilities. I have a request and a few questions:
1) would it be possible to obtain a wiring plan for this model?
2) any suggestions on the best physical location for the automatic transfer switch?
3) This model came equipped with a Furrion solar port at the side of the pass-through. This fused link appears to run up to the pass through ceiling and back into the cabin interior. I believe I understand the basic ATS wiring but don’t know how the solar port is connected/switched to the converter or battery. Any suggestions on making this work with the ATS would be greatly appreciated. Currently not using solar but might in the future and I would like to wire this just once because it looks like a really tight fit.
4) I would greatly appreciate any suggestions that you might have.



Don & Melanie
2018 Imagine 2150RB
573TE2720J5500965

[Country Campers]

The electrical plans are less than desirable. It is not a plan that shows each wire and outlet connection , rather just a general location and what "may" be attached to a breaker. You would be further ahead to go through your unit and document what is wire to what so you have the right info for how yours is wired.

Brian

[howson]

Hi, I have installed a larger battery bank/box and am currently installing an inverter and GoPower 30A automatic transfer switch to enhance our boon docking capabilities.
1) would it be possible to obtain a wiring plan for this model?

I have to agree with Brian on this one--the "Electric Plan" is very basic and not the schematic you want. A schematic doesn't exist. The Electric Plan for my 315RLTS is inaccurate, so I ended up mapping out the outlets and circuits myself. If you still want the plan, ask again and we'll tag our GD host to send you a copy by Private Message (PM).

2) any suggestions on the best physical location for the automatic transfer switch?

The converter and distribution panel are at the base of the pantry. While my 315RLTS is completely different, once I removed the converter (the inverter I installed is also a converter/charger) there was room for the ATS. The pantry is the area I'd look at for the ATS, with the inverter near the battery (in the pass-thru?) to minimize the length of the large-diameter wires for the 12v side.

3) This model came equipped with a Furrion solar port at the side of the pass-through. This fused link appears to run up to the pass through ceiling and back into the cabin interior. I believe I understand the basic ATS wiring but don’t know how the solar port is connected/switched to the converter or battery. Any suggestions on making this work with the ATS would be greatly appreciated. Currently not using solar but might in the future and I would like to wire this just once because it looks like a really tight fit.

I'm a bit confused on the question...so my answer may be skewed. A Furrion solar port is typically wired down through self-resetting breakers and then directly to the battery. When discussing solar think 12v (the ATS will handle switching 120vAC). The only job for solar is charging the battery. Bottom line: you shouldn't need to do anything with the port except connect a portable panel kit (with integrated solar controller) like the Renogy Traveler. https://www.renogy.com/200-watt-12-v...r-starter-kit/

Might be overwhelming (at first) but I've documented everything done to my 315RLTS (and truck) here: https://gdrvowners.com/forum/operati...lts-f-350-mods

My fellow moderator, TucsonJim, is also very knowledgeable in this area (he answered a host of questions for me as I went through the process) so hopefully he'll chime in soon.

Howard

[Oregon Fun-Guy]

Hi, I have installed a larger battery bank/box and am currently installing an inverter and GoPower 30A automatic transfer switch to enhance our boon docking capabilities. I have a request and a few questions:
1) would it be possible to obtain a wiring plan for this model?
2) any suggestions on the best physical location for the automatic transfer switch?
3) This model came equipped with a Furrion solar port at the side of the pass-through. This fused link appears to run up to the pass through ceiling and back into the cabin interior. I believe I understand the basic ATS wiring but don’t know how the solar port is connected/switched to the converter or battery. Any suggestions on making this work with the ATS would be greatly appreciated. Currently not using solar but might in the future and I would like to wire this just once because it looks like a really tight fit.
4) I would greatly appreciate any suggestions that you might have.

Don,

I have an Imagine 2150rb 2019 version. I have upgraded my electrical system so I am somewhat familiar with the location of the parts. The "pre-wired solar system" as you said runs from the outside connection to a 10 amp fuse just behind the connector. The wire then crosses over the ceiling of the pass-thru to the "convenience center" and then out behind the pass-thru (accessible from the bottom of the trailer) over to the fused link on the back portion of the A-frame under the connection box that attaches the wires coming from the 7-pin truck connection. Your batteries were also attached to the same fused link. At this same point, your power wires run back to the converter which as Howard said is under the pantry. There is room and the 120v wiring to install the ATS behind the converter.

I would suggest that you would improve your boondocking capabilities even more by replacing the main power wire from the converter to the battery system, if you haven't done it already. Replacing this 8 gauge wire with a 4 gauge wire will improve your battery recharging capabilities by 20%.

Norm

[howson]

I have an Imagine 2150rb 2019 version. I have upgraded my electrical system...

Dang, I should have remembered this, Norm! If dpruitt has any follow-up questions I'm going to defer them to you, OK? (Thanks!)

Howard

[dpruitt]

Gentlemen, this is excellent information and just what i was looking for. I noticed that the converter only runs at the high charge rate of 14.2 for a very short time before jumping into “float” mode. Does the large gauge wire reduce the resistance and allow the high charge rate longer? I will attempt to source the 4 AWG battery wire. Ran 4/0 AWG from the battery box between the tongue rails to the inverter between cap and front pass through wall. I’m installing screen mesh to allow for airflow. I really appreciate the assistance!

Don Pruitt

[howson]

Gentlemen, this is excellent information and just what i was looking for. I noticed that the converter only runs at the high charge rate of 14.2 for a very short time before jumping into “float” mode. Does the large gauge wire reduce the resistance and allow the high charge rate longer? I will attempt to source the 4 AWG battery wire. Ran 4/0 AWG from the battery box between the tongue rails to the inverter between cap and front pass through wall. I’m installing screen mesh to allow for airflow. I really appreciate the assistance!

Don Pruitt

Don,
If you haven't seen Will Prowse's video on wiring and connectors, I highly recommend it.

Howard

[Oregon Fun-Guy]

dpruitt

Don,

Let me address two separate issues. The biggest issue is the wire size. As I said above, the main wire from the converter to the batteries is an 8 gauge. This wire is 32 - 34 ft long as it travels from the converter, through the disconnect switch and back to the battery. Electricity is like water through a pipe. A bigger pipe allows you to move more water over a distance. In essence the resistance through the pipe is reduced by using a bigger pipe. In the case of electricity, a situation called called "voltage drop" is created by using too small a wire over the distance travelled. In your instance the voltage drop reduces the available electricity by approximately 20%. Using a bigger wire like 4 gauge will reduce the the voltage drop to 3 - 5%. Then other factor in play is the distance traveled by the electricity. A longer wire will cause more voltage drop. I reduced the distance of my charging wire by about 17' by moving my disconnect switch to the curbside of the trailer.

The other issue is the WFCO8955 charging process you described in your original post. The WFCO charger has three charging rates to charge the battery. The default charge rate is the middle rate. It starts at this middle rate and adjusts to another rate after a short period of time based on the charge condition of the batteries. Anecdotally I have heard and also observed that the converter seldom uses the top rate, the bulk rate. Other brands of converter can either use the bulk rate as the default rate or you can manually set the charge rate at bulk. If your camping style is to usually have a shore power connection, the WFCO works great. If you do a fair amount of dry camping or boondocking another converter might best suit your needs.

When I upgraded my charge wiring, I bought ultra flexible welding wire from Windy Nation's website. They could get me the length of wire I wanted along with color, red and black, and the proper connectors in a short period of time. The type of wire materials and quality appear to fit with the recommendations given in the Will Prowse video recommended by howson .

Norm

[RLB348]

Don,
If you haven't seen Will Prowse's video on wiring and connectors, I highly recommend it.

Howard

Easily one of the most informative videos out there

[Eric Farmer]

Hello all,

I'm working on my 2019 2150RB (so sad GD doesn't make this anymore). I decided I wanted to replace my LA with Lithium. Simple enough, swap batts and converter/charger and hey presto. .............. Yea of course that plan immediately fell apart.

I started with a single Renogy 200 watt suitcase. Once I ordered it, I thought I'd really prefer an MPPT controller. But when I looked at the controller's I thought, if I end up really liking the suitcase, I may actually want a second one so as long as I'm spending the money, I'll get the 40 amp model so I can handle 400 watts of solar. BUT! The Furion solar plug is only rated for 10 amps, and potentially, 400 watts of solar could produce up to 20 amps. So, I modified the solar plug to an SAE style that would handle 20 amps and rewired from the plug to the controller in the basement. I then ran new leads to the battery from the controller using seal tite (man I was pleased with that bit). Things are doing what things always do when ever I do anything. But the plot thickens.

Once I got the solar set up the way I wanted it, it was time to address the batteries. Originally I had two interstate 12v LA batts. After 3 years, I destroyed them because basically even though I know better, I just tend to abuse my batteries. Always have. I replaced them this year with two 6v Interstate "EXTREME" GC batts. The very first trip out this year with new batts and I was frankly VERY disappointed. These batts are not working out for me at all. These are actually much worse than the previous 12v batts. I think it may be down to the PD9270 and how its charging them? The charger changes charging states, but I keep finding the charger in float mode when the battery is at like 12.1v. I have no idea what's going on but when we run the generator 5 hours a day at the camp ground, the battery just isn't taking enough charge. Part of this is down to the fact that I've never seen the charge current over 14amps out of a 70amp charger. That was true of the previous 12v batteries as well. As it turns out, this was a blessing I think because the 8awg wire used by the factory would burn the whole rig down if it ever flowed 70amps. My base assumption (which could be altogether incorrect) is that the LA batteries just don't draw more than 14amps. So I let sleeping dogs lay on that one. However, now I want to replace the LA batts with Lithium and I know those batts WILL draw up to 100 charging amps. The 8awg wire has to go. I'm not at all looking forward to having to pull the underbelly apart and rout 4awg wire, but my intention is to use pvc conduit and weather proof boxes. Then comes the issue of the converter/charger itself. With one exception, every single place I've looked says the PD9270 cannot be used with Lithium. Not a problem, PD makes a Lithium version so I'd swap them out. Problem is, Renogy is adamant that the max charging current their smart batts can handle is 14.4v. The PD puts out 14.6 and Renogy says this is right out. OK,,,,, I'll look for another brand of charger. Basically, nearly every charger available is set to 14.6v. PowerMax allows you to set a fixed voltage, but then the voltage is fixed at 14.4,,,,,,,, for ever,,,,,, as long as there is shore power. For the crying out loud,,,, Renogy says that you shouldn't leave 14.4v connected to the batts for long periods of time. While the RV is in the driveway, its connected to shore power because we use the RV in our Driveway. PowerMax suggested using the battery disconnect once the batts are full charged and allowing the converter to supply the DC circuits while plugged into shore power. Ok, we're getting closer, but do I really want to feed my DC circuits 14.4v for long periods of time? I'm told that as long as I stay under 14.8v, "Most" things will be ok. Still,,,, i'm not thrilled with that solution.

Then I see a YouTube video where a guy who has the exact same PD92070 as me, shows how he's charging his Lithium batts by using the manual button to place the charger in boost mode. And wouldn't you know it, boost mode for the PD9270 is 14.4v. I'm told that the boost mode will remain in that sate for 4 hours before returning to automatic mode. That should be plenty of time to bring the batts back up. Then, I can use the batt disconnect when applicable and the PD will return to a reasonable 13.2-13.6v.

This whole experience started out with me wanting to add a solar suitcase and two lithium batteries. This should have been about as basic an upgrade as one could ever hope for. And in the grand design of things, this project is still pretty basic. But boy howdy is this costing a lot more money and time than I had originally thought. I'm not even too chuffed about the money part (though it's not making me smile either). The biggest thing is how frankly difficult the physical work is. Sourcing good material is a whole experience in and of itself. Then there is the tearing apart of the rig to install new wire. I'm not looking forward to the work as i'm fat and out of shape. But mostly, I'm timid about tearing into the camper. I'm a one man crew and I don't want to get into something that I can't get out of on my own, or clip a wire or damage something. Grand Design has a "Wiring diagram". But in talking to Grand Design, they basically told me the diagram is more of a aspiration than a hard and fast picture, and basically the exact same model made in the exact same year only weeks apart might have wires ran in different places depending on who was building the coach on any given day. So one does not simply start punching holes blindly. Now it's not just a matter of running new wires which is PITA enough, but one must also basically physically ensure that every place a hole is drilled that there is nothing on the other side.

One last thought for now. I went with Renogy because I started with their suitcase and controller. I want to stick in the renogy family because all of their equipment talks to each other. But I gotta say that renogys tech support and customer service is,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, lacking. I have questions still that I don't have answers to. And renogy was not able to help me out in the least. Frankly, they don't seem to even understand their own equipment that well. I saw a YouTube video that said lithium batteries could destroy your alternator with basically no other information. I spent hours looking online to understand this and still don't have a straight answer. The seven pin plug that supplies the trailer lights and charges the house batts is in play. Again, my base assumption was that LA batts just don't draw more than 14amps based on observation. But Lithium batts will certainly draw more than that. 70 amps through the tiny wire in the 7pin would instantly evaporate it. So,,,, is this a problem? Do I need to disconnect the wiring from the 7 pin to the battery? Is this even possible without also disabling the trailer lights? I don't know the answer to this after hours of searching. I also have seen some YouTube videos that lead me to believe that (FOR REASONS UNEXPLAINED) that the lithium batts simply won't draw enough through the 7 pin to even start charging them, and therefore the alternator is safe. In my situation, I don't ever need to charge batteries off the alternator. I'm either plugged into shore power, have Solar and or a generator to top off the batteries. Lithium batts will charge so much faster that the pitiful amount of charging one might get out of the alternator is moot. I'm more worried about melting wires and destroying my alternator than anything else. One would think that this kind of information (which I feel should be pretty basic) would be everywhere on the internet. And yet,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

That's my story so far. Thought I'd share.