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  • #76
    bellis

    Most likely your equipment would need to be set up to do this. I read in one of Howards topics that BB does not recommend a temperature corrected charge profile and it would be nice to know why since this is another one that does not add up. For instance, many of us use a lower capacity DC DC charger while towing. I use a Renogy 20amp DC DC and it works great. So why would you not be able to charge at 0.5C and when the temp hits 41F, to go to 15 amps, then cut off the charge. Both would be constant current/constant voltage.
    The temperature probe has no input the battery so this should not have any impact on the BMS.

    Jim

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    • #77
      bellis Thanks again for starting this great thread. Your wiring diagrams have really helped me make sense of all of the new concepts and put a plan together.

      I noticed in diagram V4 that you have the Battery + from the solar charger intersecting between the 400A fuse and the shutoff. How are you going to connect that? I was going to run mine to the busbar but I wanted to make sure I wasn't screwing something up.
      2021 Imagine XLS 23BHE
      2019 Ford Expedition w/HD Tow

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      • #78
        Originally posted by sanjoserob View Post
        bellis Thanks again for starting this great thread. Your wiring diagrams have really helped me make sense of all of the new concepts and put a plan together.

        I noticed in diagram V4 that you have the Battery + from the solar charger intersecting between the 400A fuse and the shutoff. How are you going to connect that? I was going to run mine to the busbar but I wanted to make sure I wasn't screwing something up.
        I thought about that, but due to howson 's influence...I plan on putting it after the battery disconnect.
        2020 Imagine 2400BH
        2017 Ford F350 Platinum FX4/4x4 SuperCrew 6.7L V8 Diesel 9' Bed SRW, Leveled + Airbags

        Our Mods

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        • #79
          Overdue Update - Here is where things stand.

          1. Battery shelf built, stained, and installed.
          2. 3/4" Oak Veneer backer board stained, poly'd and installed. (Have had a few people look and didn't realize there was a backer board /smile
          3. Batteries installed on shelf. Used leftover flood padding for a little vibration absorption. They also act as an anti-slide device? I don't think the batteries would come forward with this alone...but...
          4. Some small pieces of trim getting last coat of stain tonight in prep for install tomorrow. Going to use these to make it so the batteries cannot come forward.
          5. Battery bus / distribution bars installed and wired up.
          6. Smartshunt mounted/installed. Connected to phone and wired up.
          7. 400 amp fuse installed.
          8. 12V bus bar distribution (after shunt / fuse) installed and wired up.
          9. 8 AWG wire x2 pulled from Fuse/Breaker box to pass through.
          10. EMS wired in and tested.
          11. Multiplus mounted and wired to out of EMS. Output wired back to Main input on breaker box.
          12. Junction box installed to pass source power to above 8 AWG wire behind breaker/fuse box.
          13. Battery disconnect switch installed after fuse before 12V distribution bar.

          So, right now my 12V DC network is not connected to the camper. But my AC network can bridge my 12V DC network (by inverting to AC, going to the breaker box, and then to the converter back to 12V DC) - which is terribly inefficient I am sure. But, that is where I am at in the install (it works) and we are taking our first trip this weekend (with AC hookup).

          For grins, I removed 1 side of the positive wire on the OEM battery disconnect.....and hooked it up to my 12V DC network (with the multiplus off and the breaker for the converter off). Nothing worked. Switched to the other side of the factory OEM battery disconnect and again no dice. I just did this quickly while fixing a couple of small things tonight. I am not sure if this is because my 12V DC setup (negative) is not connected to the frame? OR if this is because I need to reverse the wires on the DC distribution panel OR both?

          Interesting Note: When inverting to AC and converting back to DC....everything works when the OEM battery disconnect is ON. When it is OFF the power jack and jack light do not work...but it appears all other 12V items do.

          I still need to do some wire management, install the solar charge controller, install my cerbo gx (not in yet), remove converter and connect DC networks, as well as look into GPS and buy some solar panels (figure out mounting?) or temporarily just go with a ground panel array?

          I am looking at the 2 following products:

          https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008200LHW...v_ov_lig_dp_it
          https://nocache.victronenergy.com/ac...g#pd-nav-image

          GPS is free I think worldwide. But, that usually works with "offline" maps. For it to report to me where it is and use geofencing etc...I think I need to have an internet connection.
          Attached Files
          2020 Imagine 2400BH
          2017 Ford F350 Platinum FX4/4x4 SuperCrew 6.7L V8 Diesel 9' Bed SRW, Leveled + Airbags

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          • #80
            Forgot to mention. Ordered towing mirrors to replace my mirrors. Working with my mechanic to get them...I may lose my puddle light =/ but, will maintain every feature my current mirrors have and gain power extension if all goes as planned. This is what was ordered:

            https://www.1aauto.com/products/i/1A...nfirmation+Old


            https://www.1aauto.com/products/i/1A...nfirmation+Old

            Mechanic is ordering a new switch for the truck and taking care of the install....not because I cannot do it...but I have too much work to do!

            Forgot to mention I need to still install my easystart....
            2020 Imagine 2400BH
            2017 Ford F350 Platinum FX4/4x4 SuperCrew 6.7L V8 Diesel 9' Bed SRW, Leveled + Airbags

            Our Mods

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            • #81
              That's looking great so far! I love the idea with the battery rack. Do you mind sharing the dimensions you cut the board for the panel? And what color is that stain, it's spot on!! It looks like the pass through is the same in the 23bhe floor plan so it should translate pretty well. I don't have my TT yet but I'd like to get the panel, the cables, and the battery box done before I get it so I can get it all installed in 1-2 days once I have it. I already started getting the components tonight!!

              Did you use a stud finder to find the studs or peel back the panel to mount the 3/4 ply?
              2021 Imagine XLS 23BHE
              2019 Ford Expedition w/HD Tow

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              • #82
                bellis ,

                A excellent install! Yes for GPS, you would need some type of internet connection.

                Jim

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                • #83
                  Congrats on getting this far! It is a lot of work. I hope you don't mind a couple of thoughts/observations.

                  Originally posted by bellis View Post
                  So, right now my 12V DC network is not connected to the camper. But my AC network can bridge my 12V DC network (by inverting to AC, going to the breaker box, and then to the converter back to 12V DC) - which is terribly inefficient I am sure. But, that is where I am at in the install (it works) and we are taking our first trip this weekend (with AC hookup).
                  Yep. Not the way to do this. I think I know what is happening...read on.

                  What happened to the original wire that went from the positive side of the dealer-supplied battery to the OEM 30A self-resetting circuit breaker? I'm going to make an assumption that the wire was removed. (In the pictures below, it is bottom red wire attached to the gold, or power, side of CB1.) I'm also going to make an assumption that a new wire was not added from the positive side of the Battle Born bus bar back to CB1 (again, the gold side).

                  Originally posted by bellis View Post
                  For grins, I removed 1 side of the positive wire on the OEM battery disconnect.....and hooked it up to my 12V DC network (with the multiplus off and the breaker for the converter off). Nothing worked. Switched to the other side of the factory OEM battery disconnect and again no dice. I just did this quickly while fixing a couple of small things tonight. I am not sure if this is because my 12V DC setup (negative) is not connected to the frame? OR if this is because I need to reverse the wires on the DC distribution panel OR both?

                  Interesting Note: When inverting to AC and converting back to DC....everything works when the OEM battery disconnect is ON. When it is OFF the power jack and jack light do not work...but it appears all other 12V items do.
                  So with these assumptions in place and your note above, why is the trailer working the way it is? In the pictures below, the bottom left is my 315RLTS' original OEM wiring. On the right side is the same diagram but the wire from the battery to CB1 is removed.

                  Click image for larger version

Name:	OEM Wiring.JPG
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ID:	23816

                  The only source for 12v in the diagram on the right (above) is the WFCO converter. With the OEM shufoff disconnected (OFF), the power tongue, stabilizers, and emergency brakes will not work. If the WFCO isn't powered by 120vAC, the emergency brakes will not work.

                  I would not tow the camper in this condition and urge you to fix it.

                  I don't know the wiring in your camper, but it should be similar to mine. It might be an easy fix. Run +12v from a bus bar to OEM CB1. In the picture below (the way mine is wired as an example) this is the wire labeled Red Wire from Shutoff 2 IN. If you study the schematic below and compare to the one (left one) above what you should find is the new circuit mimics how the OEM configured the trailer with the additional shutoff providing a means to completely disconnect the batteries.

                  Let me repeat for emphasis that the wiring in your camper may be different so verify, verify, verify!

                  Click image for larger version

Name:	Final Wiring.JPG
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ID:	23817

                  Finally (and maybe I missed it) but are the Battle Born battery connections going to be protected from an accidental short? The way they are facing in the rack it could happen.

                  Please continue to post updates!

                  Howard


                  Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                  2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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                  • #84
                    howson Howard,

                    Good point on the unprotected terminals. Assumed he would be covering this up but its should be stated to provide the necessary protection.

                    Jim

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by sanjoserob View Post
                      That's looking great so far! I love the idea with the battery rack. Do you mind sharing the dimensions you cut the board for the panel? And what color is that stain, it's spot on!! It looks like the pass through is the same in the 23bhe floor plan so it should translate pretty well. I don't have my TT yet but I'd like to get the panel, the cables, and the battery box done before I get it so I can get it all installed in 1-2 days once I have it. I already started getting the components tonight!!

                      Did you use a stud finder to find the studs or peel back the panel to mount the 3/4 ply?
                      I peeled back the panel to locate the boards. I have a stud finder...but I wanted to see what was back there. As thin as that stuff is, a stud finder would probably be fine....I just wanted to see what wiring was back there in an attempt to miss it. All along the bottom there is a steel plate several inches high.

                      Classic Grey #271 from minwax. Bought at Lowes. Also bought the 3/4" oak veneer from Lowes years ago for another project....4x8 sheet is probablt $50 bucks. 3/4" plywood would be cheaper, and I was about to buy some or 1/2 plywood...but I had this already. I am GLAD I used 3/4". I don't think 1/2" would be enough (for me...but I over build things). Lot of weight and a little deeper for a longer screw helps. I also did a clear semi gloss poly over the 3/4" veneer board on both sides. I did not on the shelf (time constraint).

                      Outside dimensions are 14 3/8" across. Height is just under 24". Depth is Just under 7". I used premium pine 1x2(I think)? for the shelves vertically and for the batteries to rest on. Also had this from another project, also from Lowes. Padding is blue if you can see in the picture...I have it under each battery. I got this recently when remodeling the basement...it is a lifetime warranty under carpet pad.

                      2020 Imagine 2400BH
                      2017 Ford F350 Platinum FX4/4x4 SuperCrew 6.7L V8 Diesel 9' Bed SRW, Leveled + Airbags

                      Our Mods

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by howson View Post
                        Congrats on getting this far! It is a lot of work. I hope you don't mind a couple of thoughts/observations.

                        Yep. Not the way to do this. I think I know what is happening...read on.

                        What happened to the original wire that went from the positive side of the dealer-supplied battery to the OEM 30A self-resetting circuit breaker? I'm going to make an assumption that the wire was removed. (In the pictures below, it is bottom red wire attached to the gold, or power, side of CB1.) I'm also going to make an assumption that a new wire was not added from the positive side of the Battle Born bus bar back to CB1 (again, the gold side).

                        So with these assumptions in place and your note above, why is the trailer working the way it is? In the pictures below, the bottom left is my 315RLTS' original OEM wiring. On the right side is the same diagram but the wire from the battery to CB1 is removed.
                        Howard: I assume my inefficient operation of DC to AC back to DC (battery to inverter to converter) is not unsafe or a problem other than it is just not the way to do it. I do not intend to leave it this way....but if I don't get that fixed before leaving for a camping trip (to a campground with power) that is probably not a big deal? I am going to try to look at it a little closer tonight if I have time. I was just quickly playing with it last night. Let me clarify - I plan on travelling with the inverter on....and all AC/DC power on. Fridge cooling...trailer brake/emergency operational. Which leads me to another question - isn't there a small battery in line for the trailer break rip cord?

                        I have NOT removed the battery wire that is up on the tongue yet. I am curious what will happen if I flip the breaker on the converter (off), then on the DC fuse box side reverse the wiring...IE plug the output from the board to the input....then take both sides of the OEM switch and attach to my positive bus bar (after switch and fuse). I am very curious to see if that works. If it does, should I re-wire the cables on the OEM to just one large cable? I do think I need to run one from negative bus bar to the frame. I will keep everyone posted.

                        Originally posted by howson View Post

                        Finally (and maybe I missed it) but are the Battle Born battery connections going to be protected from an accidental short? The way they are facing in the rack it could happen.
                        Originally posted by MidwestCamper View Post
                        howson Howard,

                        Good point on the unprotected terminals. Assumed he would be covering this up but its should be stated to provide the necessary protection.

                        Jim
                        Yes, I plan on putting covers on those. I just have not done it yet. Haven't traveled yet and it has just been me crawling around in there. I also missed a washer when putting those terminals on...I may remove bolt/nut tonight and add it in. It's not absolutely needed...but might as well....just takes time.
                        Last edited by bellis; 07-09-2020, 05:20 PM.
                        2020 Imagine 2400BH
                        2017 Ford F350 Platinum FX4/4x4 SuperCrew 6.7L V8 Diesel 9' Bed SRW, Leveled + Airbags

                        Our Mods

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by bellis View Post
                          Let me clarify - I plan on travelling with the inverter on....and all AC/DC power on. Fridge cooling...trailer brake/emergency operational. Which leads me to another question - isn't there a small battery in line for the trailer break rip cord?
                          I'm sure you understand why I have to write that I do not recommend this configuration with a new, untested setup. The fact that you ask that second question almost makes me think I'm being trolled. If the intent was to get a reaction--consider the post a success. (I need a beer.)

                          Originally posted by bellis View Post
                          I have NOT removed the battery wire that is up on the tongue yet. I am curious what will happen if I flip the breaker on the converter (off), then on the DC fuse box side reverse the wiring...IE plug the output from the board to the input....then take both sides of the OEM switch and attach to my positive bus bar (after switch and fuse). I am very curious to see if that works. If it does, should I re-wire the cables on the OEM to just one large cable? I do think I need to run one from negative bus bar to the frame.
                          Sorry--I don't understand the process, or DC wiring end goal, therefore I can't comment.

                          Please be safe. As a last thought and input on your project, double-check the DC wiring after making a change (with a multimeter) prior to re-applying power. If there's no resistance between the ground and a positive wire do not apply power--find out why there's a short and fix it.

                          Howard
                          Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                          2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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                          • #88
                            Here's an idea for some wire management. nice and tidy: https://www.facebook.com/QualityRVSo...25112807678278
                            2021 Imagine XLS 23BHE
                            2019 Ford Expedition w/HD Tow

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by bellis View Post

                              I peeled back the panel to locate the boards. I have a stud finder...but I wanted to see what was back there. As thin as that stuff is, a stud finder would probably be fine....I just wanted to see what wiring was back there in an attempt to miss it. All along the bottom there is a steel plate several inches high.

                              Classic Grey #271 from minwax. Bought at Lowes. Also bought the 3/4" oak veneer from Lowes years ago for another project....4x8 sheet is probablt $50 bucks. 3/4" plywood would be cheaper, and I was about to buy some or 1/2 plywood...but I had this already. I am GLAD I used 3/4". I don't think 1/2" would be enough (for me...but I over build things). Lot of weight and a little deeper for a longer screw helps. I also did a clear semi gloss poly over the 3/4" veneer board on both sides. I did not on the shelf (time constraint).

                              Outside dimensions are 14 3/8" across. Height is just under 24". Depth is Just under 7". I used premium pine 1x2(I think)? for the shelves vertically and for the batteries to rest on. Also had this from another project, also from Lowes. Padding is blue if you can see in the picture...I have it under each battery. I got this recently when remodeling the basement...it is a lifetime warranty under carpet pad.
                              Thanks bellis ! you saved me a ton of time trying to match the stain and I can get to work wiring this thing up! Now, I just need to get measurements for the hatch door on the XLS series to see if the panel will fit with everything assembled!
                              2021 Imagine XLS 23BHE
                              2019 Ford Expedition w/HD Tow

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by howson View Post

                                I'm sure you understand why I have to write that I do not recommend this configuration with a new, untested setup. The fact that you ask that second question almost makes me think I'm being trolled. If the intent was to get a reaction--consider the post a success. (I need a beer.)

                                Sorry--I don't understand the process, or DC wiring end goal, therefore I can't comment.

                                Please be safe. As a last thought and input on your project, double-check the DC wiring after making a change (with a multimeter) prior to re-applying power. If there's no resistance between the ground and a positive wire do not apply power--find out why there's a short and fix it.

                                Howard
                                Oh absolutely. I want this to be a safe setup. I have it tested the way it is....which is not ideal and everything is working. As long as my AC and DC power networks have good safe power...I think I am good while travelling until I can get the OEM 12V DC system connected to the battery 12V DC system.

                                Certainly not trying to troll you! My intent was to get a response. Only because safety is very important.

                                I will definitely break out the multimeter. I have simply been hoping the DC side of things may be simpler than I thought originally. I haven't given that up just yet. As of right now, there are definitely no shorts in the system and the way I have tested things there have not been shorts either (tests have not have a circuit....so they are failed tests haha).

                                Last night, I quickly tried one more thing. I turned the breaker off (power was off) to the converter, and then swapped the wires. I then connected both wires from the back up the factory battery disconnect to my positive bus bar. This did not result in anything on the 12V side working once I turned my battery switch on. I think this is because I do not have my 12V bus bar connected to the frame yet....so a circuit has not been made. I put it all back. So OEM switch is turned on, but only to supply 12V power from the converter (Which will get AC power from my inverter/batteries while travelling for this weekend) until we get to the park/hookups.

                                If the negative to frame does not fix the above, I am definitely going to have to pour over your 12V posts with a closer eye...look at what I have...and then maybe re-read your posts again. I am still hoping that it may be a simple thing...
                                2020 Imagine 2400BH
                                2017 Ford F350 Platinum FX4/4x4 SuperCrew 6.7L V8 Diesel 9' Bed SRW, Leveled + Airbags

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