Lithium + Victron + Solar Install and questions

[howson]

bellis

I have to "see" things in order for them to make sense to me, so I've attempted to convert the verbiage from post 124 and Guest's very helpful pictures (thanks, Jim!) into one combined image. Below is that attempt (it is very basic).




As noted by Jim, there is definitely a difference in the wiring to the circuit breaker (yours on the left, Jim's on the right). There's a second red wire on the silver terminal where on Jim's there's only one (plus the black wire, which is the emergency brake switch). We can not assume the wires serve the same purpose on both campers, so please verify by tracing each wire or a method that proves what it does.

The issue not discussed (yet) is how the negative side of the battery is configured. (The diagram is only showing the positive side of the 12v system.)

Is any of this helpful or too much?

Howard

[bellis]

I don't want to make any assumptions, so the first statement means the original battery wire is not connected where the battery was (at one end) and also not connected to the circuit breaker (at the other end). The OEM provided battery wire is not connected to anything at either end.

Is that right?

Eh - let me clarify....clarity matters so thanks for asking.

Original factory battery wire is taped up on the tongue. No battery and nothing connected on this end. The other side is connected to the self-resetting circuit breaker (now flipped). I could just remove the wire. It's not doing anything; but I don't exactly need the wire either....never know if it may come in handy when out.

So it is connected to the self resetting circuit breaker on the frame. But it doesn't need to be.

[howson]

I did not install my batteries on the tongue and I did not use that wire (it's still hanging there and visibly traceable).

I don't want to make any assumptions, so the first statement means the original battery wire is not connected where the battery was (at one end) and also not connected to the circuit breaker (at the other end). The OEM provided battery wire is not connected to anything at either end.

Is that right?

[Guest]

bellis ,

It looks like your rig is wired different than mine. For the solar port I checked this by installing a volt meter into the terminals and while disconnecting the white/pink wire from the frame mounted breaker, I witnessed the voltage drop. This wire was connected to the battery feed side where there may be a fuse behind the plug? Another forum member was looking for this and I do not think he found a dedicated fuse. So it may be best to install a fuse at the solar panel if using the solar plug. My tongue jack was/is connected to the frame mounted breaker but it was on the battery side with its own in-line fuse. On my OEM wiring, the frame mounted breaker was protecting the entire rig while on battery power through wire #5 on my pic.
I realized I had a very small draw on the OEM battery when I purchased a clamp on current meter and checked the main battery feed with the switch open.

Jim

[bellis]

So - let me back up and if nothing else for my own benefit (thinking out loud) describe what I have done as it is relevant to the self-resetting circuit breaker.

1. I did not install my batteries on the tongue and I did not use that wire (it's still hanging there and visibly traceable).
2. My batteries are in the pass through, flow through a distribution block, then a fuse, then the master switch, then another distribution block.
3. The above final distribution block has the multiplus, solar charge controller, cerbo, AND I removed a wire from the OEM switch and wired it directly to the distribution block. This is the feed that goes to the self resetting circuit breaker.
4. I then wired the distribution block to the OEM switch and the other side is the rest of the camper's 12V.
5. The wire that is going to the self resetting circuit breaker (now flipped to the brass side) is a dual wire, both crimped to one lug.
6. Everything else on the self-resetting circuit breaker is pretty easy to visually trace at least to the next step (a couple of small black wires are going to the box just above where the 7 pin wire comes in).

When I flip my OEM switch off all lights, the slide, the radio?, the fridge (DC/propane part), carbon monoxide detector(?), sky fans, USB ports(?), all are out. When the master battery switch is on....the tongue jack, trailer brake, tongue light and old battery wires on the tongue are all live.

Is the other wire possibly the solar? I haven't torn that panel off to get to the port on the side for solar wiring.

I'm still wrapping my head around the sparks though....flipping the self-resetting circuit breaker has made no (As of yet) noticeable change in function. Hopefully it is providing protection (but it would only be protecting my unused battery cable, the tongue jack, the tongue jack light, and the trailer brake.

Should I have everything running through that self-resetting circuit breaker before the rest of the trailer? I'm not now....everything works.

[mpking]

Look at the CO alarm for the green light that is illuminated when power is fed to this device. While each rig may be wired differently ...

That's what I meant by the Propane alarm. It is the unit with the constant green light, mounted on the wall by the bathroom door. My CO (Carbon Monoxide alarm) appears to be a battery operated unit. It's not hardwired.

When I pull shorepower, and kill the battery switch, the light on the Propane detector goes out. I'd post a photo, but it'd be pitch black now.

I think the summary is, each rig, even in the same model line, might be wired differently. We've seen enough variance to prove that out.

[Guest]

You know. I'm going to challenge you guys on this statement today. I've seen it made several times.

I was wiring in my USB power ports today. I had the fuse for the Radio pulled for the better part of 2 hours. It still had all its radio Presets.

I just ran out and pulled my shorepower cord, and flipped the kill switch. The Propane alarm went off. (as in all lights went out)

And my CO2 and Smoke detectors both needed there batteries replaced this week.They are not hardwired.

In conclusion:

When kill switch is flipped, on the 2017 Imagine 2800BH, all power to the coach is shut off. I will confirm this when I get a Victron or similar on the battery later this month,

Maybe the 5th wheeler's are different.

mpking I originally made this assumption as well when I purchased my Imagine but I was incorrect. The radio presets were erased each time I disconnected the AC and the battery switch but the CO alarm was on at all times. Look at the CO alarm for the green light that is illuminated when power is fed to this device. While each rig may be wired differently its best to sort out the wires where it may indeed be true that your killing all power to the rig via the battery switch.
I could have traced this junction down where I had performed a rough check on the protected battery feed from the breaker which ran across the rig just behind the passthrough and to the switch. See pic.

Correction: Propane alarm at the floor.

Jim

[mpking]

5) Protected breaker output to the battery switch - somewhere connected to this circuit are the wire(s) that power CO, Propane alarms radio and memory functions

You know. I'm going to challenge you guys on this statement today. I've seen it made several times.

I was wiring in my USB power ports today. I had the fuse for the Radio pulled for the better part of 2 hours. It still had all its radio Presets.

I just ran out and pulled my shorepower cord, and flipped the kill switch. The Propane alarm went off. (as in all lights went out)

And my CO2 and Smoke detectors both needed there batteries replaced this week.They are not hardwired.

In conclusion:

When kill switch is flipped, on the 2017 Imagine 2800BH, all power to the coach is shut off. I will confirm this when I get a Victron or similar on the battery later this month,

Maybe the 5th wheeler's are different.

[Guest]

original frame mounted breaker with wires labeled (hopefully!)

howson Howard,

Turns out there was only one wire I needed to run down and I assumed correctly on that one which was the white/pink for the solar feed. Here is the same pick where I've included numbers next to the associated wires. This pic is of the original unmodified wiring on my 2017 Imagine 2600RB.

1) Tongue Jack Power - Can barely be seen
2) OEM Battery Positive Feed
3) Power Feed to break away emergency brake switch
4) Solar plug power feed
5) Protected breaker output to the battery switch - somewhere connected to this circuit are the wire(s) that power CO, Propane alarms radio and memory functions
6) Battery Charging from the tow vehicle

Hope this helps.

Jim

[Guest]

original frame mounted breaker with wires labeled (hopefully!)

howson Howard,

This evening when I'm off work, I'll run down the wires on my frame mounted breaker. There are two of the six that I would need to run down so this should be fairly quick.

Jim

[howson]

Are you looking for a pic of my original frame mounted breaker or the OEM switch Pic?

original frame mounted breaker with wires labeled (hopefully!)

[Guest]

howson Howard,

Are you looking for a pic of my original frame mounted breaker or the OEM switch Pic? I have pics of the OEM wiring.

Hopefully without interjecting confusion, I connected both leads of my OEM switch to the output side of a new breaker. The input side was connect to the OEM switch. With battery power at the other side of the OEM switch, this resulted in the ability to completely disconnect the battery from the entire coach.
Since power is now reversed to the frame mounted beaker, I also reversed the wires that were connected there. The black charge lead from the TV was directly connected to a 20amp Renogy for charging while traveling.
So in short (pun) my frame mounted breaker is just acting as a junction block, except for the solar plug which is connected there as an input.

Reading quickly through these posts I can offer some advice in chasing down circuits on these rigs. Disconnect one wire at a time and simply determine what has stopped functioning. For connections such as the solar plug, a volt meter can be used to determine if power is present or lost. Don't forget the trailer break away switch which is wired (unprotected) directly to the battery.

Attached are two pics of the OEM wiring.

I was not concerned about the ID of each circuit since the frame mounted breaker was reversed and power was fed from the other end of the circuit via a new breaker in the passthrough. This way, protection to these circuits were unchanged and in some instances double protected. The OEM battery feed was removed and the heavy black wire (TV Charge) was connected to the Renogy.

The break away switch (small black wire at the OEM battery input) is another discussion.


Jim

[howson]

Going to have to cut the crimped end off and then it is just a matter of testing each wire to know which ones comes from the batteries (well OEM switch, distribution block, master switch, then batteries). I would then have to re-crimp new ends on both wires and install on the appropriate portion of the self-resetting circuit breaker.

I haven't gotten that far in life just yet! I don't have small lugs to re-crimp those connections so I will need to go buy them.

I don't suggest cutting the connectors off..just try and trace them visually. A multimeter will tell you which one has power.

For those following this thread, if you have a 2400BH (or similar Imagine) and if your wiring to the auto-disconnect is OEM, can you take a picture of how yours is configured? ( Guest -- Jim -- do you have anything? )

[bellis]

bellis -- do you have a picture of the circuit breaker wiring as it came from the factory (OEM setup)?

Do you know where each of the wires come from or where they are going to? (To label the wires in the picture.)

As stated in post #104, I don't know the technical reasons for why, but the gold side of a self-resetting breaker is the power side and the silver is the load side. There are many references to this configuration with just a cursory google search. I could not, however, determine why. A guess...there's a mechanical construct and due to the way current flows the manufacturer wants current to flow in a specific direction.

Going to have to cut the crimped end off and then it is just a matter of testing each wire to know which ones comes from the batteries (well OEM switch, distribution block, master switch, then batteries). I would then have to re-crimp new ends on both wires and install on the appropriate portion of the self-resetting circuit breaker.

I haven't gotten that far in life just yet! I don't have small lugs to re-crimp those connections so I will need to go buy them.

[howson]

bellis -- do you have a picture of the circuit breaker wiring as it came from the factory (OEM setup)?

Do you know where each of the wires come from or where they are going to? (To label the wires in the picture.)

As stated in post #104, I don't know the technical reasons for why, but the gold side of a self-resetting breaker is the power side and the silver is the load side. There are many references to this configuration with just a cursory google search. I could not, however, determine why. A guess...there's a mechanical construct and due to the way current flows the manufacturer wants current to flow in a specific direction.