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  • Moving 12V ground

    I'm in the process of installing 3 lithium batteries on the A-frame of our 2020 Imagine 2600RB. I plan on running them in parallel but want to minimize the length of cables running from the trailer to the battery bank. I thinking of moving the ground to the opposite side (from curb to street side) and attaching it to the frame. Anyone able to tell me if that is reasonable or should I just run a longer cable? I can attach the cable by either using a self tapping screw or drill through the I frame, attaching the ground cable with a nut and bolt.

    Right now, running two batteries in parallel has the positive cable about as far as it will reach. I'm thinking the shorter run ground cable would be more efficient. Or am I going in the wrong direction?
    2020 F-250 Lariat 2WD SuperCrew 6.7L, Blue Ox SwayPro hitch w/ 1000lb bars
    2020 Imagine 2600RD w/ Road Armor + wet bolt suspension, Yakima Longhaul Bike Rack, MicroAir EasyStart 364 for AC, Lion Energy 105 amp Lithiium Ion X2
    Amateur Radio Call N9XGZ
    FMCA # 489460

  • #2
    Originally posted by Running from Gnats View Post
    I'm in the process of installing 3 lithium batteries on the A-frame of our 2020 Imagine 2600RB. I plan on running them in parallel but want to minimize the length of cables running from the trailer to the battery bank. I thinking of moving the ground to the opposite side (from curb to street side) and attaching it to the frame. Anyone able to tell me if that is reasonable or should I just run a longer cable? I can attach the cable by either using a self tapping screw or drill through the I frame, attaching the ground cable with a nut and bolt.

    Right now, running two batteries in parallel has the positive cable about as far as it will reach. I'm thinking the shorter run ground cable would be more efficient. Or am I going in the wrong direction?
    For large amperage, low voltage circuits shorter wire runs with large gauge wires are desirable. There's a point of diminishing returns, so the answer to your specific question is "it depends". What distance difference are you estimating, what gauge wire is being used, and how many amps is the wire expected to carry on the 12vDC circuit?

    Since there are two batteries already hooked up (and presumably are working fine) why the need to move where the + and - are connected to the trailer?

    Here's how I envision the current two batteries:
    Click image for larger version

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    Adding a third doesn't require moving the trailer wires.
    Click image for larger version

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    There is a lot of information on the internet about how to wire batteries in parallel to balance the load, keep one battery from wearing out before the others, etc. According to the conversations with AMSolar's engineer, because our battery banks are relatively small and the batteries are controlled internally by a BMS, the wiring scheme between the batteries makes no difference.

    Let me hasten to add that the experienced electrical folks here on this forum may disagree. I welcome their thoughtful disagreement.

    I'm also curious about what TucsonJim did with his wiring, as his batteries are on the tongue.
    Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

    2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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    • #3
      Running from Gnats

      As important as the gauge of the wire is the quality of the terminal connection to the wire. Attached is something that I put together a while ago on this topic. Included is an ABYC table for wire gauge and length. Use the 3% voltage drop distance . . . 10% is a lot in a 12V circuit.

      Through bolting your ground connection would be preferable to a self tapping screw. Consider creating a ground stud with serrated washers, through bolted and held firmly to the frame with a nut. Then, the terminals can go on top of that nut with another nut to secure them. Similar to what I did to create the ground stud in the attached (although mine is secured to plywood with a heavy single cable to the frame)

      Rob
      Attached Files
      Cate & Rob
      (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
      2015 Reflection 303RLS
      2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
      Bayham, Ontario, Canada

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      • #4
        bellis -- if you haven't seen Cate&Rob wiring PDF, please give it a look (see post #2 in this thread).
        Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

        2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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        • #5
          Famtraveler24 -- if you haven't seen Cate&Rob wiring PDF, please give it a look (see post #2 in this thread).
          Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

          2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post
            Attached is something that I put together a while ago on this topic.
            On the assumption that you're not ALWAYS working on your trailer Rob, where is it parked and where in it is that fabulous crimper pictured in your PDF?

            Hard to even find those now, and when "we can order it for you" found are priced north of CDN$400, even CDN$500. Are you feeling well, and do you have a will?
            Mark - 2018 Solitude 310GK - Ford F-350 SRW diesel short box - Pullrite Superglide hitch

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            • #7
              Originally posted by boyscout View Post

              On the assumption that you're not ALWAYS working on your trailer Rob, where is it parked and where in it is that fabulous crimper pictured in your PDF?

              Hard to even find those now, and when "we can order it for you" found are priced north of CDN$400, even CDN$500. Are you feeling well, and do you have a will?
              I purchased a set from Amazon that do great. $65 US. But if you can talk Rob into giving you his via his will, nevermind....

              https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

              Jim
              Jim and Ginnie
              2024 Solitude 310GK
              GDRV Technical Forum Moderator
              GDRV Rally Support Coordinator

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              • #8
                I bought mine from Temco Industrial direct. They also have terminals and heat shrink. Free FedEx in the US. Not sure about Canada.

                https://temcoindustrial.com/



                Jim
                Jim&Deb
                2016 Reflection 337 RLS
                2015 GMC Denali 3500HD Duramax, 4wd, Crew Cab 6'6" box, SRW

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                • #9
                  TucsonJim thanks but "Currently Unavailable". However it looks like Jim & Deb link is the same product... golden! Thanks guys. I'll explore if they will ship to Canada for less than a king's ransom.
                  Mark - 2018 Solitude 310GK - Ford F-350 SRW diesel short box - Pullrite Superglide hitch

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                  • #10
                    boyscout
                    Hi Mark,

                    $60 (Cdn) at Princess Auto . . .

                    Rob
                    Cate & Rob
                    (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
                    2015 Reflection 303RLS
                    2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                    Bayham, Ontario, Canada

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post
                      boyscoutHi Mark, $60 (Cdn) at Princess Auto . . . Rob
                      Thanks Rob, but not any more, been there.

                      I've been to no less than a dozen places from Barrie to Bradford to Orangeville, most of them hardcore professional electrical supply places but also Princess Auto, Home Depot and Lowes, but no luck. A couple of places offered to order it for a lot of money. The champion was Acklands Grainger who wanted (and still does) more than $500 for it and it didn't do 2AWG!

                      https://www.grainger.ca/en/product/D...WG/p/WSW13H897

                      I'm going to call about the Temco Industrial tool. Thanks again.
                      Mark - 2018 Solitude 310GK - Ford F-350 SRW diesel short box - Pullrite Superglide hitch

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                      • #12
                        Here is what exists now and what I am thinking of doing. If I reverse the way the batteries it, I can shorten the positive cable and use a shorter negative cable by attaching it to the opposite side of the trailer. I want to shorten the cable needed and figure on use 4 or 6 gauge. I can upgrade the cables later, once I install a Victron charger/inverter (need to put aside some funds to purchase and have it installed).

                        2020 F-250 Lariat 2WD SuperCrew 6.7L, Blue Ox SwayPro hitch w/ 1000lb bars
                        2020 Imagine 2600RD w/ Road Armor + wet bolt suspension, Yakima Longhaul Bike Rack, MicroAir EasyStart 364 for AC, Lion Energy 105 amp Lithiium Ion X2
                        Amateur Radio Call N9XGZ
                        FMCA # 489460

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          boyscout
                          This looks like the Princess Auto replacement for the crimpers that I have.
                          https://www.princessauto.com/en/deta...es/A-p8850984e
                          Rob
                          Cate & Rob
                          (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
                          2015 Reflection 303RLS
                          2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                          Bayham, Ontario, Canada

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Running from Gnats View Post
                            Here is what exists now and what I am thinking of doing. If I reverse the way the batteries it, I can shorten the positive cable and use a shorter negative cable by attaching it to the opposite side of the trailer. I want to shorten the cable needed and figure on use 4 or 6 gauge. I can upgrade the cables later, once I install a Victron charger/inverter (need to put aside some funds to purchase and have it installed).
                            To your specific question--I see no reason what you want to do won't work. However...

                            What is charging the lithium batteries now? Lithium batteries will accept a much greater amperage flow than the OEM wiring is rated to handle. Battle Born 100aH batteries will charge at 1C, or up to 100 amps(!) if the charger can supply it.

                            To expand on that a bit more, the existing OEM wiring from the WFCO charger to ground was designed to carry a relatively low amperage (since a "wet cell" battery likes to charge slow). While you may use 4 or 6 gauge from the battery to ground on the front of the camper, what about the wiring from the ground connection (power distribution panel)? Is it the 4 or 6 gauge or smaller? If smaller, that section of wiring becomes the weak link and can choke the charger or worse, burn up the wiring.

                            Wiring directly from the charger to your lithium battery bank, and having the components as close to each other as physically possible, is much preferable over using the trailer frame.

                            Hope this helps...

                            Howard



                            Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                            2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by howson View Post

                              To your specific question--I see no reason what you want to do won't work. However...

                              What is charging the lithium batteries now? Lithium batteries will accept a much greater amperage flow than the OEM wiring is rated to handle. Battle Born 100aH batteries will charge at 1C, or up to 100 amps(!) if the charger can supply it.

                              To expand on that a bit more, the existing OEM wiring from the WFCO charger to ground was designed to carry a relatively low amperage (since a "wet cell" battery likes to charge slow). While you may use 4 or 6 gauge from the battery to ground on the front of the camper, what about the wiring from the ground connection (power distribution panel)? Is it the 4 or 6 gauge or smaller? If smaller, that section of wiring becomes the weak link and can choke the charger or worse, burn up the wiring.

                              Wiring directly from the charger to your lithium battery bank, and having the components as close to each other as physically possible, is much preferable over using the trailer frame.

                              Hope this helps...

                              Howard


                              I've swapped out the WFCO charger with a PD4655MBA/L which has a 55 amp output and matched the output of the original unit. My understanding is since the new Wildcat is a direct replacement for the WFCO unit installed by GD, but can handle charging requirements for lithium, with the 55 amp limit imposed by factory wiring. When I am able to install the Victron controller/inverter I'm hopeful the installer will change out the wiring between the charger and the batteries.

                              Norris
                              2020 F-250 Lariat 2WD SuperCrew 6.7L, Blue Ox SwayPro hitch w/ 1000lb bars
                              2020 Imagine 2600RD w/ Road Armor + wet bolt suspension, Yakima Longhaul Bike Rack, MicroAir EasyStart 364 for AC, Lion Energy 105 amp Lithiium Ion X2
                              Amateur Radio Call N9XGZ
                              FMCA # 489460

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