Victron Multiplus Will Not Run Air Conditioner

[howson]

I'm kind of perplexed about why you're trying to run the AC's with the batteries. Is this just a science experiment that you're doing in your driveway, or do you actually cool the camper when you're camping and not hooked up to shore power? I'm guessing each AC consumes around 15 amp hours. Sure, that's 26 hours -- but only if you start with a fully charged 400 AH bank and there are no other loads.

Please talk about your use case running the AC's with the batteries.

Thanks.

-Steve

I like to stop at a rest area and take a power nap if the travel day gets long. Running the bedroom a/c makes this possible.

[howson]

Got the EasyStarts removed from the air conditioners today. If you have the clear lid version of the EasyStart, it's easy to see the firmware version. See pics below.

"FRM B18" means Firmware version B18


Here's a picture with the lid off for a better view. This picture also is a good view of the three LED trouble lights in this version of the EasyStart. (Some have different implementations of lights to indicate faults.)

[ncitro]

Got the EasyStarts removed from the air conditioners today. If you have the clear lid version of the EasyStart, it's easy to see the firmware version. See pics below.

"FRM B18" means Firmware version B18


Here's a picture with the lid off for a better view. This picture also is a good view of the three LED trouble lights in this version of the EasyStart. (Some have different implementations of lights to indicate faults.)

Did you try running the AC without the Easy Starts?

[howson]

Did you try running the AC without the Easy Starts?

Too lazy to re-wire the connectors. If I get bored and it's not too hot I may try this weekend. Definitely will do if the EasyStarts don't work when I get them back.

[ncitro]

Too lazy to re-wire the connectors. If I get bored and it's not too hot I may try this weekend. Definitely will do if the EasyStarts don't work when I get them back.

I don’t blame you there. Fingers crossed it comes back quick.

[howson]

Fingers crossed it comes back quick.

Neil (and everyone else that's interested),
MicroAir not only updated the firmware to version B24, they sent me entirely new units!



Their attention to detail is amazing. I'd installed dual-lock tape on the base of the units (to secure the EasyStarts inside the air conditioners) so what did MicroAir do? They used the original bases and put the new circuitry / wiring inside. They also sent two install accessory kits (I'd purchased two when I bought my EasyStarts)--and I didn't even ask for them. I'm super impressed with MicroAir's customer service.



Now to the main question: can the air conditioners run off the inverter now? YES! Works perfectly as it did before. MicroAir never did follow up with why the previous version stopped working.



One interesting issue did arise. When I had my Victron MPPT Solar Charger engaged and it was pumping out ~700 watts when the air conditioner compressor kicked in then there was a power blip/failure in the camper. The compressor obviously did not continue to run. I disconnected the solar panels from the inverter (so 0 watts output) and tried it again. The a/c ran without any issue. I then reengaged the solar panels and everything ran fine.

I do not know what will happen when during during a normal cycle of the compressor turning off (room meets thermostat setting) and then back on with the solar engaged if there will be an issue.



I'm speculating the inverter tries to pull from the solar but it can not respond fast enough. With the solar off the inverter pulls directly from the batteries which can respond fast enough. Once running the solar added in there's no issue and the a/c continues to run as expected.

I'll update this thread as applicable if I find out more info.

Howard

[ncitro]

Neil (and everyone else that's interested),
MicroAir not only updated the firmware to version B24, they sent me entirely new units!



Their attention to detail is amazing. I'd installed dual-lock tape on the base of the units (to secure the EasyStarts inside the air conditioners) so what did MicroAir do? They used the original bases and put the new circuitry / wiring inside. They also sent two install accessory kits (I'd purchased two when I bought my EasyStarts)--and I didn't even ask for them. I'm super impressed with MicroAir's customer service.



Now to the main question: can the air conditioners run off the inverter now? YES! Works perfectly as it did before. MicroAir never did follow up with why the previous version stopped working.



One interesting issue did arise. When I had my Victron MPPT Solar Charger engaged and it was pumping out ~700 watts when the air conditioner compressor kicked in then there was a power blip/failure in the camper. The compressor obviously did not continue to run. I disconnected the solar panels from the inverter (so 0 watts output) and tried it again. The a/c ran without any issue. I then reengaged the solar panels and everything ran fine.

I do not know what will happen when during during a normal cycle of the compressor turning off (room meets thermostat setting) and then back on with the solar engaged if there will be an issue.



I'm speculating the inverter tries to pull from the solar but it can not respond fast enough. With the solar off the inverter pulls directly from the batteries which can respond fast enough. Once running the solar added in there's no issue and the a/c continues to run as expected.

I'll update this thread as applicable if I find out more info.

Howard

That’s great news from Micro Air Howard. Keep us posted on how they hold up.

That’s odd behavior regarding the solar controller. I think you’ve got your solar controller and inverter tied to the same point. I realize all the batteries are in parallel, but I wonder if there would be any value to putting the cables going to them on different battery posts? That small difference might buy you enough time for the compressor to level out? Not sure if that would affect charge equalization though.

[howson]

That’s odd behavior regarding the solar controller.

It's similar behavior to the interaction I've seen between the Renogy DC-DC Charger and the Victron SmartSolar MPPT (and Multiplus inverter). The sequence and timing of what it turned on when does have some effect, though I can't quantify definitively at this time.

I experimented more this afternoon and found that with the update to firmware version 469 in the Multiplus I used the VictronConnect app to configure the inverter. In VictronConnect there's a "AC input control" screen that is different from VEConfig.



When I looked at the inverter settings in VEConfig the settings I used in the AC Input Control screen translated to "Ignore AC Input" in VEConfig.

I turned "Ignore AC Input" off (no assistant selected) and tried the bedroom a/c again on with the Multiplus set to "inverter" mode. This effectively shuts off the output of shore 120vAC from the Multiplus (it won't pass shore power in this mode). Air conditioner started and ran fine, even with the solar enabled and providing limited power.

BL: There's a lot of interactive settings that can cause unintended results. Now that everything is working again I've turned off "auto update" on the Victron equipment firmware settings and I'm leaving it alone.

[ncitro]

It's similar behavior to the interaction I've seen between the Renogy DC-DC Charger and the Victron SmartSolar MPPT (and Multiplus inverter). The sequence and timing of what it turned on when does have some effect, though I can't quantify definitively at this time.

I experimented more this afternoon and found that with the update to firmware version 469 in the Multiplus I used the VictronConnect app to configure the inverter. In VictronConnect there's a "AC input control" screen that is different from VEConfig.



When I looked at the inverter settings in VEConfig the settings I used in the AC Input Control screen translated to "Ignore AC Input" in VEConfig.

I turned "Ignore AC Input" off (no assistant selected) and tried the bedroom a/c again on with the Multiplus set to "inverter" mode. This effectively shuts off the output of shore 120vAC from the Multiplus (it won't pass shore power in this mode). Air conditioner started and ran fine, even with the solar enabled and providing limited power.

BL: There's a lot of interactive settings that can cause unintended results. Now that everything is working again I've turned off "auto update" on the Victron equipment firmware settings and I'm leaving it alone.

Yeah it’s definitely a case where I wouldn’t mess with the firmware once I know it’s running right, unless there’s some kind of major bug discovered.

[steve&renee]

Neil (and everyone else that's interested),
MicroAir not only updated the firmware to version B24, they sent me entirely new units!

By any chance do the new units seem to have a way to update firmware without removing the unit and sending it back to the home office? That sure would be a nice enhancement feature.

-Steve

[howson]

By any chance do the new units seem to have a way to update firmware without removing the unit and sending it back to the home office? That sure would be a nice enhancement feature.

-Steve

I don't know, Steve, but an educated guess is "no". There's nothing like a USB port or similar connection to allow an external connection to a smartphone or computer anywhere on the device.

[howson]

On Monday, I was floored when I reloaded the ESS Assistant in the Multiplus and when tested the bedroom air conditioner compressor did not come on. Just the fan. I was so mad I decided the best course of action was to walk away. Grrrr....

TS Marco kept me at bay yesterday, so I sat fuming over the issue and reading through the manuals (again).

Today I went back out and configured everything in the Multiplus to the standard configuration (no assistant, no special settings, nothing). Air conditioner compressor still would not run. Only the fan. The Coleman's compressor wasn't even trying to start! "Great", I thought. "I fried the new EasyStart on this air conditioner. How the heck did I manage that?" Thankfully the living room a/c was working fine.
As I stood there forlornly looking at my CCGX's display panel showing the way-too-low power draw from the air conditioner, suddenly......it couldn't be, could it? I walked back two steps and pressed the temp button on the thermostat. Doh! It was set to 90 degrees! (When did I do that?) Cranked the temp down to 72 and voila', air conditioner started running.
Reconfigured the Multiplus again with the ESS Assistant and everything works perfectly as it should.

Ah, the life of an RV owner, eh?

Hope you get a chuckle from this (at my expense).

Howard

[ncitro]

On Monday, I was floored when I reloaded the ESS Assistant in the Multiplus and when tested the bedroom air conditioner compressor did not come on. Just the fan. I was so mad I decided the best course of action was to walk away. Grrrr....

TS Marco kept me at bay yesterday, so I sat fuming over the issue and reading through the manuals (again).

Today I went back out and configured everything in the Multiplus to the standard configuration (no assistant, no special settings, nothing). Air conditioner compressor still would not run. Only the fan. The Coleman's compressor wasn't even trying to start! "Great", I thought. "I fried the new EasyStart on this air conditioner. How the heck did I manage that?" Thankfully the living room a/c was working fine.
As I stood there forlornly looking at my CCGX's display panel showing the way-too-low power draw from the air conditioner, suddenly......it couldn't be, could it? I walked back two steps and pressed the temp button on the thermostat. Doh! It was set to 90 degrees! (When did I do that?) Cranked the temp down to 72 and voila', air conditioner started running.
Reconfigured the Multiplus again with the ESS Assistant and everything works perfectly as it should.

Ah, the life of an RV owner, eh?

Hope you get a chuckle from this (at my expense).

Howard

Boy I have been there so many times. Have everything tore apart looking for the worst when it’s something simple. Glad it was easy.

[TucsonJim]

Howard - Similar story. A few weeks ago, we had the 41 year old electrical panel changed in our house. After the change out, our bedroom AC stopped working. I verified it had electrical power, was set at the correct temperature, and turned on. Nothing. So I tore into it and checked all the limiters to make sure they were working. I hooked up gauges and checked to see if there were any leaks. I cycled power to the unit at least a dozen times. Nothing.

So I gave up and called in the pros. It cost me $55 for the service tech to push and hold the power button for 5 seconds to reboot the system..... dang it.

Jim