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  • Water Pump Switch in Bathroom

    Moderator Note: Keith went on quite the journey with this project! Post #32 (and subsequent) was from another thread where he completed this project, so they were merged into this one thread for continuity. It's a long read, but worth it to understand the process. -Howard

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    Being a bit board I thought I would revisit this ...I think I even asked about 3 way or 4 way switches before somewhere (I over complicated it). Then I had a HOMER moment DOOOOOOH.

    Without touching the existing GD wiring that has the two switches, one by the door on the master panel and one on the Nautilus panel, would it be possible to add a momentary (power when pushed) switch wired separately using a separate power source? What I would do is run a power wire from my Aux fuse block (15A?) to the switch, then from the switch to the positive side of the pump. The pump is already grounded, correct?. Then when the momentary switch is pushed the pump would run. That way in the middle of the night I can get a bit of water to do my business. I routinely turn the pump off at night and when away (also city water off at night and when away). Don't want to return or wake up to a flooded unit knowing the poor quality water connections (had two fail already) Sorry GD that is my honest opinion on the connections. Brass are available to do the same job

    Is there any reason this could not be done? I was wanting an illuminated on-off type that would also show on the panels, but wiring that in and having it on and forgetting and then turning on one of the GD switches might fry things. Thoughts?

    Thanks - Stay Safe and Healthy Everyone
    Keith
    Last edited by howson; 04-05-2021, 07:33 AM.
    2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th whee, Star White 2022 F350 King Ranch CC Long bed (HAL) (CCC 4062lbs), B&W 25K OEM Companion,. SteadyFast system, Trailer reverse lights, rear receiver spare tire holder, storage tube, sumo springs, Victron MultiPlus 12/120/3000, Solar, Custom 6K axles upgrade, and other modifications.

  • #2
    Yoda
    Hi Keith

    This is a good idea! You just added another project to my "to do" list . . . which is OK! I'm really getting Corona bored.

    I have done something similar to this with a momentary contact switch bypassing another switch (or switches). It worked fine until I tried to get fancy and use a momentary contact lighted switch. Come to find out that in the off position the switch connects the load side of the switch to the indicator light ground. This will short the original switch wiring when either of those switches are used.

    Interesting project . . . I am sure that others will chime in.

    Rob
    Cate & Rob
    (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
    2015 Reflection 303RLS
    2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
    Bayham, Ontario, Canada

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post
      Yoda
      Hi Keith

      This is a good idea! You just added another project to my "to do" list . . . which is OK! I'm really getting Corona bored.

      I have done something similar to this with a momentary contact switch bypassing another switch (or switches). It worked fine until I tried to get fancy and use a momentary contact lighted switch. Come to find out that in the off position the switch connects the load side of the switch to the indicator light ground. This will short the original switch wiring when either of those switches are used.

      Interesting project . . . I am sure that others will chime in.

      Rob
      Thought I had better beat Rob to asking........Corona the beer or the virus !

      Dan
      Dan & Carol
      2014 303RLS Reflection #185 (10/2013 build)
      2012 Silverado LTZ Crew Duramax 2500HD - 2700/16K Pullrite Superglide

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Canyonlight View Post

        Thought I had better beat Rob to asking........Corona the beer or the virus !

        Dan
        Better be careful there - Original Rob has has friends in high places

        Keith
        2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th whee, Star White 2022 F350 King Ranch CC Long bed (HAL) (CCC 4062lbs), B&W 25K OEM Companion,. SteadyFast system, Trailer reverse lights, rear receiver spare tire holder, storage tube, sumo springs, Victron MultiPlus 12/120/3000, Solar, Custom 6K axles upgrade, and other modifications.

        Comment


        • #5
          Keith

          I think this is a pretty good idea. A simple push button and hold to run the pump , then when released the pump is off. The only thing I could see as a problem is if the pump is already running and the switch/button is pressed , maybe put it in a place that this would not likely happen.

          Brian
          Brian & Michelle
          2018 Reflection 29RS
          2022 Chevy 3500HD

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Country Campers View Post
            Keith

            I think this is a pretty good idea. A simple push button and hold to run the pump , then when released the pump is off. The only thing I could see as a problem is if the pump is already running and the switch/button is pressed , maybe put it in a place that this would not likely happen.

            Brian
            Thanks Brian
            I am still trying to determine if anything bad would happen if the switch was pushed when power is already on. All it is doing is putting a second fused 12V source on the positive side of the pump, which already would have 12V there. Nothing else. However I am not an electrical engineer, just a civil. So I am hoping for expert advice here. Now if I use an illuminated push button switch, it should light if there is power to the pump, as the light gets power on the downward leg (pump side). Hmmmm - maybe a standard on/off would be OK as it would show power to the pump if any exists. I wonder if that is how GD wired the existing ones? I guess I could clean out the basement and check. Unfortunately the electrical drawings form Emily lack the detail on the pump circuit unless there are others. GDRV-Emily - are there better wiring details available for the water pump switch wiring? I.E. How are the two switches connected to be lit when either one is turned on to power the pump? Color coding information would be great too.

            Thanks Everyone
            Keith
            2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th whee, Star White 2022 F350 King Ranch CC Long bed (HAL) (CCC 4062lbs), B&W 25K OEM Companion,. SteadyFast system, Trailer reverse lights, rear receiver spare tire holder, storage tube, sumo springs, Victron MultiPlus 12/120/3000, Solar, Custom 6K axles upgrade, and other modifications.

            Comment


            • #7
              Keith

              The drawing you have received is probably all they are willing to share. Knowing your intentions of modifying part of the electrical system they will be less likely to share anything else.
              I have recently moved the fuse from right next to the pump to right at the switch, easier access. I did not pay attention to the routing of the wires though but would not be to difficult to trace..

              Brian
              Brian & Michelle
              2018 Reflection 29RS
              2022 Chevy 3500HD

              Comment


              • #8
                If you use the SAME circuit there shouldn't be any chance of back feeding anything. Simply energizing with the same source.
                Jim (& Sharon)
                2015 GD Momentum 385TH w/ Joy Rider shocks, Sailun 637s & 3" Garage extension, LifeBlue Lithium.
                2015 Ford F-350 DRW 4x4 Lariat w/ AirLift bags, Titan 65 gal. OEM replacement fuel tank.
                The toys:
                2017 RZR XP 1000 EPS SE
                2018 Fiat Abarth Cabrio

                Comment


                • #9
                  Yoda
                  Hi Keith,

                  Since there is only one source of +12V for anything in the camper, picking up this power does not have to be from the same connection point used for the existing switches. See my "simplified" drawing attached. I have not included fuses or power for a lighted momentary contact switch.

                  Per my earlier comment, if you want to go with a lighted momentary switch, check what happens to the load side of the switch in the off position. If this stays open in the off position, then it will work with the light. If this connects to the ground for the switch light in the off position, it will cause a short to ground when the existing switches are used. (ask me how I know this ).

                  Note that the existing "pump on" lights are beside and not part of the existing switches. This is probably because of what I describe above.
                  Edit: The existing lights will come on when the momentary switch is pushed . . . not that you will be able to see these.

                  So . . . we have a civil and a mechanical engineer working on an electrical design . . . what could go wrong? .

                  Rob
                  Attached Files
                  Cate & Rob
                  (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
                  2015 Reflection 303RLS
                  2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                  Bayham, Ontario, Canada

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    So . . . we have a civil and a mechanical engineer working on an electrical design . . . what could go wrong? .

                    Rob
                    Quote of the day right there.

                    Brian
                    Last edited by howson; 04-05-2021, 07:27 AM.
                    Brian & Michelle
                    2018 Reflection 29RS
                    2022 Chevy 3500HD

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Country Campers View Post
                      So . . . we have a civil and a mechanical engineer working on an electrical design . . . what could go wrong? .

                      Rob
                      Quote of the day right there.

                      Brian[/QUOTE]

                      Only God Knows - but it should be a heck of a lot of fun

                      My old College professor always said God was an Engineer. The civil engineer part of him created the earth, and the mechanical part of him put the universe in motion. The environmental engineer part of him created all life and all the electrical engineer part of him did was to create lightning.

                      It should be noted my professor had PhD's in Civil, Mechanical, and Biology. He started out to be a Dr.

                      Tomorrow I will pull the trailer out of the back yard and get it set level on the drive so I can tinker on all my projects. Now to find a good illuminated momentary switch.
                      2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th whee, Star White 2022 F350 King Ranch CC Long bed (HAL) (CCC 4062lbs), B&W 25K OEM Companion,. SteadyFast system, Trailer reverse lights, rear receiver spare tire holder, storage tube, sumo springs, Victron MultiPlus 12/120/3000, Solar, Custom 6K axles upgrade, and other modifications.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post
                        Yoda
                        Hi Keith,

                        Since there is only one source of +12V for anything in the camper, picking up this power does not have to be from the same connection point used for the existing switches. See my "simplified" drawing attached. I have not included fuses or power for a lighted momentary contact switch.

                        Per my earlier comment, if you want to go with a lighted momentary switch, check what happens to the load side of the switch in the off position. If this stays open in the off position, then it will work with the light. If this connects to the ground for the switch light in the off position, it will cause a short to ground when the existing switches are used. (ask me how I know this ).

                        Note that the existing "pump on" lights are beside and not part of the existing switches. This is probably because of what I describe above.
                        Edit: The existing lights will come on when the momentary switch is pushed . . . not that you will be able to see these.

                        So . . . we have a civil and a mechanical engineer working on an electrical design . . . what could go wrong? .

                        Rob
                        Rob - your wiring is exactly what I had in mind. Thanks. BTW I probably asked this before, but what do you use to draw with. JCR GD If I can get to it in the basement I will try to pull the 12V off of the existing pump circuit. Fortunately the power panel is almost directly below the wall I am thinking of putting the switch. on.

                        Thanks everyone. When I get to this I will do pictures.

                        Keith
                        2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th whee, Star White 2022 F350 King Ranch CC Long bed (HAL) (CCC 4062lbs), B&W 25K OEM Companion,. SteadyFast system, Trailer reverse lights, rear receiver spare tire holder, storage tube, sumo springs, Victron MultiPlus 12/120/3000, Solar, Custom 6K axles upgrade, and other modifications.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Yoda View Post

                          Rob - I probably asked this before, but what do you use to draw with.
                          Hi Keith,

                          I "draw" in Powerpoint. Something that I learned to do decades ago, when Powerpoint had better drawing tools than they do today and CAD programs were way too complicated for "concept" sketching. Then, I convert the page to a pdf for posting here.

                          In Powerpoint, "drawing" is a combination of inserting and copying basic shapes and lines.

                          Rob

                          Cate & Rob
                          (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
                          2015 Reflection 303RLS
                          2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                          Bayham, Ontario, Canada

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post

                            Hi Keith,

                            I "draw" in Powerpoint. Something that I learned to do decades ago, when Powerpoint had better drawing tools than they do today and CAD programs were way too complicated for "concept" sketching. Then, I convert the page to a pdf for posting here.

                            In Powerpoint, "drawing" is a combination of inserting and copying basic shapes and lines.

                            Rob
                            Thanks
                            I have power point - I remember taking a class.........well it was back when I had hair and I did not sleep at a Holiday Inn last night. Never used it - had an assistant. Got time on my hand - how bad can I mess up practicing??
                            2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th whee, Star White 2022 F350 King Ranch CC Long bed (HAL) (CCC 4062lbs), B&W 25K OEM Companion,. SteadyFast system, Trailer reverse lights, rear receiver spare tire holder, storage tube, sumo springs, Victron MultiPlus 12/120/3000, Solar, Custom 6K axles upgrade, and other modifications.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              HELP !!!
                              I have been searching for a true 15A - 20A momentary illuminated switch. All I am finding are push on/push off types, but not in the rating I need. So if your board, and you have good electrical sources could you make recommendations. I do not what cheep, but something that will work. Possibly waterproof as it will be in the bath, but where it is going is away from any water source/splash. I guess a push on/push off with work as the light will remind me to turn it off before leaving the bath. I did find one that I posted on the other place thread, but found out it has terrible reviews on amazon and elsewhere.
                              https://www.amazon.com/Waterproof-Ma..._t3_B018RDKWB8
                              Thoughts?

                              Thanks
                              Keith

                              PS I read somewhere of the importance of good crimp connectors and I learned all I have is junk. What are the good brands as my memory (CRS / AAADD) has done it again. I need to get better organized on my sources.

                              On edit - I think I found one that will work if I remember to turn it off
                              https://www.amazon.com/dp/product/B00GZOPK3C?th=1
                              Specifications here https://www.bluesea.com/products/792...Black_-_OFF-ON
                              Last edited by Yoda; 04-18-2020, 09:47 PM.
                              2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th whee, Star White 2022 F350 King Ranch CC Long bed (HAL) (CCC 4062lbs), B&W 25K OEM Companion,. SteadyFast system, Trailer reverse lights, rear receiver spare tire holder, storage tube, sumo springs, Victron MultiPlus 12/120/3000, Solar, Custom 6K axles upgrade, and other modifications.

                              Comment

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