Converting an Imagine 2600RB to Lithium Power

[Guest]

I've been wanting to do a write up on my Lithium conversion on my 2017 Imagine 2600RB. This system is a simple single 100ah Lithium design to aid in boondocking where we would mostly need lighting and a furnace since we typically boondock only in the early spring and late fall. With my single 12V flooded battery, I would charge around four hours each day with a generator where with furnace operation later (set to 68F) at night would just get us through the night. By next morning my battery was close to 12.0V which is the discharged point for a lead acid battery.

My Lithium system was built into the passthrough docking station and the AIMS Lithium battery was relocated next to the docking station to keep the wiring from the Progressive Dynamics 60amp Lithium charger as short as possible. 4 AWG welding cable was used for the charger and battery connection to and from the busbars which have been mostly isolated with positive on one side of the panel and the negative busbar on the opposite side. My original WFCO charger was left in place and the 120V breaker has been switched off. I wanted to reduce the excessive length of factory 8 AWG wiring from the WFCO to the battery which was the reason the Progressive Dynamics charger was mounted in the docking station. This way, if my expensive Lithium battery were to go bad far from home, I could quickly unplug the Progressive charger, purchase and locate a lead acid battery back out on the trailer tongue, install the two original battery feed wires and turn on the WFCO. A Renogy 20amp charger was also added to the docking station and wired into my trucks 7 pin connection.

Jim

[Country Campers]

Very nice install job Jim. Reading your other reports it seems to be working quite well.

Brian

[Guest]

Brian,

I'm very pleased with the operation. It was so nice to not listen to the generator for hours each day. One thing did catch my attention and that was battery temperature when charging. I monitor battery temperature and as many have read I feel its really important to do so. I charged my battery to 100% SOC initially before the trip, set the SOC to 100% in the BMV712 and noticed when charging (80F day), I had seen battery temperatures at around 115F which is still well within the operating temperatures of the battery. But I like to keep the battery as cool as possible since we really do not know the temperature of those inner most cells. Am I being over cautious? Most likely but an easy modification is to simply bore some small holes along the base of the battery box and two more larger holes at the upper side of the top cover of the marine battery box. This should provide a chimney effect where hotter escaping air will draw in cooler air at the base of the battery box. I expect this to keep the battery cooler where if I need more, I'll make up a battery box and will install a small thermostatically controlled fan.

Lithium batteries will have a long life if kept at temperatures that we ourselves find comfortable. In auto's we use these strategies as well as to liquid cool and heat batteries to keep them in a range that will maximize efficiency and longevity.

Jim

[dannyq]

I've been wanting to do a write up on my Lithium conversion on my 2017 Imagine 2600RB. This system is a simple single 100ah Lithium design to aid in boondocking where we would mostly need lighting and a furnace since we typically boondock only in the early spring and late fall. With my single 12V flooded battery, I would charge around four hours each day with a generator where with furnace operation later (set to 68F) at night would just get us through the night. By next morning my battery was close to 12.0V which is the discharged point for a lead acid battery.

My Lithium system was built into the passthrough docking station and the AIMS Lithium battery was relocated next to the docking station to keep the wiring from the Progressive Dynamics 60amp Lithium charger as short as possible. 4 AWG welding cable was used for the charger and battery connection to and from the busbars which have been mostly isolated with positive on one side of the panel and the negative busbar on the opposite side. My original WFCO charger was left in place and the 120V breaker has been switched off. I wanted to reduce the excessive length of factory 8 AWG wiring from the WFCO to the battery which was the reason the Progressive Dynamics charger was mounted in the docking station. This way, if my expensive Lithium battery were to go bad far from home, I could quickly unplug the Progressive charger, purchase and locate a lead acid battery back out on the trailer tongue, install the two original battery feed wires and turn on the WFCO. A Renogy 20amp charger was also added to the docking station and wired into my trucks 7 pin connection.

Jim

Jim,

Would you have the process on how you relocated the Lithium battery to the passthrough. I have been looking on how to move the wiring from the tongue to the passthrough.
I will be working on a 2021 2500RL.

Thanks for the help

Danny

[Canyonlight]

Jim Guest - X2 as Brian Country Campers shared in his post. Well done and thanks, so much for sharing all the pictures and narratives !

I'm paying attention and learning much from all the solar posts over the last year. Our next RV will have some solar system and hopefully I will be prepared to "measure twice and cut once" on our build/install.

Dan

[Guest]

Jim,

Would you have the process on how you relocated the Lithium battery to the passthrough. I have been looking on how to move the wiring from the tongue to the passthrough.
I will be working on a 2021 2500RL.

Thanks for the help

Danny

Danny,

I should draw up a wiring diagram but since I'm still working its really hard to find the time. I apologize. In short, I removed the two tongue mounted battery 8 AWG wires from the trailer and stowed them away (will get back to that). I moved the two 8 awg wires that are connected to the main battery switch and located both of those to a positive bus bar on the add on panel. From the positive busbar I ran a cable to one side of the battery switch and the other side of this switch to the battery positive post with 4 AWG welding cable. This will result in the ability to completely kill power to the rig. I should also state that in doing this, you must travel with the battery switch turned on or an add on break away kit needs to be added to the rig to maintain power to the break away switch.

The add on panel that holds the Progressive Dynamics and Renogy Chargers were made on a workbench to avoid the cramped conditions in the passthrough and to also avoid all the bending which would be an issue for me. Once this was planned, organized and made up, the panel was installed with 4 screws and the main cables connected to the battery, battery switch and a chassis ground connection. The battery feed from the truck was routed to the input of the Renogy DC DC while the Progressive Dynamics charger is simply plugged into the GFCI at the face of the docking station and the WFCO charger was turned off at the breaker. The original rear panel of the docking station was moved further back to hide the add on panel and a new side panel was made and installed. You will notice a small opening at the bottom of the side panel where this is for cooling to draw in cool air at the floor and to expel hotter air out the top of the docking station.

Should I be far from home and the expensive Lithium battery fails, I can purchase and re-locate a lead acid battery back out on the tongue, install the original battery feed wires, unplug the progressive dynamics charger and flip on the breaker to the WFCO. I like to have redundancy in systems.

I will work to make up a wiring diagram at some point where overall this system was easy to create (mostly outside the rig) and with minimal modification to the original wiring.

Jim

[Guest]

Jim Guest - X2 as Brian Country Campers shared in his post. Well done and thanks, so much for sharing all the pictures and narratives !

I'm paying attention and learning much from all the solar posts over the last year. Our next RV will have some solar system and hopefully I will be prepared to "measure twice and cut once" on our build/install.

Dan

Guys,

Thank you. I will be happy to show you this system at the next rally. I do not have solar panels but do have a suitcase panel ( it needs a Lithium controller) and at some point I may install a small sine wave Inverter to run the TV.

Jim

[dannyq]

Danny,

I should draw up a wiring diagram but since I'm still working its really hard to find the time. I apologize. In short, I removed the two tongue mounted battery 8 AWG wires from the trailer and stowed them away (will get back to that). I moved the two 8 awg wires that are connected to the main battery switch and located both of those to a positive bus bar on the add on panel. From the positive busbar I ran a cable to one side of the battery switch and the other side of this switch to the battery positive post with 4 AWG welding cable. This will result in the ability to completely kill power to the rig. I should also state that in doing this, you must travel with the battery switch turned on or an add on break away kit needs to be added to the rig to maintain power to the break away switch.

The add on panel that holds the Progressive Dynamics and Renogy Chargers were made on a workbench to avoid the cramped conditions in the passthrough and to also avoid all the bending which would be an issue for me. Once this was planned, organized and made up, the panel was installed with 4 screws and the main cables connected to the battery, battery switch and a chassis ground connection. The battery feed from the truck was routed to the input of the Renogy DC DC while the Progressive Dynamics charger is simply plugged into the GFCI at the face of the docking station and the WFCO charger was turned off at the breaker. The original rear panel of the docking station was moved further back to hide the add on panel and a new side panel was made and installed. You will notice a small opening at the bottom of the side panel where this is for cooling to draw in cool air at the floor and to expel hotter air out the top of the docking station.

Should I be far from home and the expensive Lithium battery fails, I can purchase and re-locate a lead acid battery back out on the tongue, install the original battery feed wires, unplug the progressive dynamics charger and flip on the breaker to the WFCO. I like to have redundancy in systems.

I will work to make up a wiring diagram at some point where overall this system was easy to create (mostly outside the rig) and with minimal modification to the original wiring.

Jim

Jim, thank you for the details. I will be taking this, one small bite at a time. After reading this I plan on getting one Lithium battery and just rewire it to get the battery in the Passthrough.
Once that is all done, I am going to add some solar Panels sometime next year. Once all that is working I will then add a second battery or third and add a Multiplus to the system with all the supporting hardware. It looks like I will have a double expenditure of using a Lithium charger until I am ready for the Multiplus. I am look forward to the wiring diagram. At this point this is my plan. We all know how that goes.

Danny

[Guest]

Jim, thank you for the details. I will be taking this, one small bite at a time. After reading this I plan on getting one Lithium battery and just rewire it to get the battery in the Passthrough.
Once that is all done, I am going to add some solar Panels sometime next year. Once all that is working I will then add a second battery or third and add a Multiplus to the system with all the supporting hardware. It looks like I will have a double expenditure of using a Lithium charger until I am ready for the Multiplus. I am look forward to the wiring diagram. At this point this is my plan. We all know how that goes.

Danny

Danny,

Please let us know how your system works out. While I used 4 AWG cabling that is more than enough for my needs, I assume you will be using heavier cabling in planning the solar add on. There are folks here such as Howson and Tucson Jim and others that have gone the full solar route where their systems are very nice.

Jim

[howson]

Danny,

Please let us know how your system works out. While I used 4 AWG cabling that is more than enough for my needs, I assume you will be using heavier cabling in planning the solar add on. There are folks here such as Howson and Tucson Jim and others that have gone the full solar route where their systems are very nice.

Jim

dannyq -- with regards to Jim's note, if I can echo what I believe he's saying it's this: install the wiring for the full (end game) system right from the start. At least in my experience the wiring was the worst part. Do it once and then swap out (or in) the parts later as you go.

If you haven't seen it yet, I posted all the electrical mod links I've done (well, most of them) in one thread here: https://gdrvowners.com/forum/operati...lts-f-350-mods

While my setup is a bit much (I'd scale it back if doing it today), the information in the threads may trigger some thoughts, ideas, or questions. There's many individuals here who have now installed their own system.

Howard

[tonygoncalves]

Jim, thank you for the details. I will be taking this, one small bite at a time. After reading this I plan on getting one Lithium battery and just rewire it to get the battery in the Passthrough.
Once that is all done, I am going to add some solar Panels sometime next year. Once all that is working I will then add a second battery or third and add a Multiplus to the system with all the supporting hardware. It looks like I will have a double expenditure of using a Lithium charger until I am ready for the Multiplus. I am look forward to the wiring diagram. At this point this is my plan. We all know how that goes.

Danny

Your plan is almost exactly what mine is, I'm just a couple steps ahead of you. I purchased and installed the BattleBorn last fall, moved it into the passthrough, and learned the hard way that the OEM WFCO charger won't maintain a full charge on lithium. My battery barely lasted two days on our first camping trip this spring. It actually died while we were packing up to leave from the site, I had to borrow a neighbours genny just so I could bring in the awning and slide. At the time I was just depending on the regular battery gauge (which is useless for lithium), and assumed I had 100% when we started our trip. Based on what I know now, I'm pretty sure I had about 50% or less.

That trip convinced me to "splurge" on a proper battery meter, so I bought the Victron BMV-712. It's so nice to know exactly what my current battery capacity or usage is at any time. Now that I have solar installed, my batteries are always 100% every day, and I don't bother plugging it in to the 120v unless I'm pre-cooling the fridge for a trip.

Here's my experience on the WFCO charger, with my BattleBorn. Your mileage may vary. Remember, when it comes to DC voltage, and when you have two sources such as a charger and a battery providing similar but different voltages, the one providing the higher voltage "wins". As in it will provide as much current as it can at that voltage, then will start to drop voltage, before the lower voltage device provides current. Remember this, it will be applicable shortly.

The WFCO charger that came with your trailer will charge the lithium, but only for four hours or so. I'm assuming you have the same WF-8955 as I do, and so I'll be using it's specs. That charger is designed to charge Lead Acid batteries, and does so in three stages: Bulk at 14.4V for up to four hours, Absorption at 13.6V for 44 hours, and Float at 13.2V for the rest of the time.



The problem I believe is that the WFCO Float voltage is too low. Battleborns like to float or sit at 13.6V-13.4V, but WFCO chargers only float at 13.2V. Now remember what I said about two DC sources at slightly different voltage? What ends up happening in my experience is the trailer draws the 12V power from the 13.6V Battelborn instead of the 13.2V WFCO charger. Because the voltage curve of the lithium is so flat, by the time the Battleborn voltage drops below 13.2V, and the current is finally drawn from the WFCO instead, the Battleborn is at only 40% charge.



And the WFCO won't recharge the Battleborn, because it needs to be at a higher voltage delta (difference) for charging to be effective.

So you end up with what happened to me the first time I went camping with my Battleborn. Even though it was plugged in for weeks before the trip, and the factory meter said the battery was full at 13.2V, it was actually only 40% full, and died barely two days into the trip. The weather was cold, we used the furnace alot, and wife used the inverter to dry her hair, etc.

Does this mean the WFCO is garbage? I don't think so. Just be aware of it's limits, and know how to work around it:

1. Get a proper battery meter, like the BMV-712 or SmartShunt.
2. If you're a weekend camper, the day before your trip, unplug the trailer from the wall, wait a couple minutes, then plug it in again. That should kick the WFCO back into Bulk mode for up to four hours, which should enough to charge your battery to full. Depending on usage, a single 100Ah lithium battery should last the whole weekend.
3. Unless you're full time plugged in at a serviced site, (and if so, why need the lithium charger or lithium battery?), on the longer multi-day trips (if you don't have solar) just plug in a generator when the battery needs to be charged, that will kick the WFCO into bulk mode for up to four hours, and you shouldn't need to spend money on a temporary lithium charger. Save that dough for solar or the Multiplus.
4. Install solar with a lithium compatible charge controller. Assuming you get sunshine at your storage site, that will keep your battery topped up every day while your trailer is in storage, regardless of what the WFCO charger is doing.

For reference, the WFCO lithium chargers will Bulk at 14.6V for up to four hours, then will hold in Absorption at 13.6V. there is no Float charge.


Just my two cents. If I have any facts incorrect, please let me know.

[Guest]

Your plan is almost exactly what mine is, I'm just a couple steps ahead of you. I purchased and installed the BattleBorn last fall, moved it into the passthrough, and learned the hard way that the OEM WFCO charger won't maintain a full charge on lithium. My battery barely lasted two days on our first camping trip this spring. It actually died while we were packing up to leave from the site, I had to borrow a neighbours genny just so I could bring in the awning and slide. At the time I was just depending on the regular battery gauge (which is useless for lithium), and assumed I had 100% when we started our trip. Based on what I know now, I'm pretty sure I had about 50% or less.

That trip convinced me to "splurge" on a proper battery meter, so I bought the Victron BMV-712. It's so nice to know exactly what my current battery capacity or usage is at any time. Now that I have solar installed, my batteries are always 100% every day, and I don't bother plugging it in to the 120v unless I'm pre-cooling the fridge for a trip.

Here's my experience on the WFCO charger, with my BattleBorn. Your mileage may vary. Remember, when it comes to DC voltage, and when you have two sources such as a charger and a battery providing similar but different voltages, the one providing the higher voltage "wins". As in it will provide as much current as it can at that voltage, then will start to drop voltage, before the lower voltage device provides current. Remember this, it will be applicable shortly.

The WFCO charger that came with your trailer will charge the lithium, but only for four hours or so. I'm assuming you have the same WF-8955 as I do, and so I'll be using it's specs. That charger is designed to charge Lead Acid batteries, and does so in three stages: Bulk at 14.4V for up to four hours, Absorption at 13.6V for 44 hours, and Float at 13.2V for the rest of the time.



The problem I believe is that the WFCO Float voltage is too low. Battleborns like to float or sit at 13.6V-13.4V, but WFCO chargers only float at 13.2V. Now remember what I said about two DC sources at slightly different voltage? What ends up happening in my experience is the trailer draws the 12V power from the 13.6V Battelborn instead of the 13.2V WFCO charger. Because the voltage curve of the lithium is so flat, by the time the Battleborn voltage drops below 13.2V, and the current is finally drawn from the WFCO instead, the Battleborn is at only 40% charge.



And the WFCO won't recharge the Battleborn, because it needs to be at a higher voltage delta (difference) for charging to be effective.

So you end up with what happened to me the first time I went camping with my Battleborn. Even though it was plugged in for weeks before the trip, and the factory meter said the battery was full at 13.2V, it was actually only 40% full, and died barely two days into the trip. The weather was cold, we used the furnace alot, and wife used the inverter to dry her hair, etc.

Does this mean the WFCO is garbage? I don't think so. Just be aware of it's limits, and know how to work around it:

1. Get a proper battery meter, like the BMV-712 or SmartShunt.
2. If you're a weekend camper, the day before your trip, unplug the trailer from the wall, wait a couple minutes, then plug it in again. That should kick the WFCO back into Bulk mode for up to four hours, which should enough to charge your battery to full. Depending on usage, a single 100Ah lithium battery should last the whole weekend.
3. Unless you're full time plugged in at a serviced site, (and if so, why need the lithium charger or lithium battery?), on the longer multi-day trips (if you don't have solar) just plug in a generator when the battery needs to be charged, that will kick the WFCO into bulk mode for up to four hours, and you shouldn't need to spend money on a temporary lithium charger. Save that dough for solar or the Multiplus.
4. Install solar with a lithium compatible charge controller. Assuming you get sunshine at your storage site, that will keep your battery topped up every day while your trailer is in storage, regardless of what the WFCO charger is doing.

For reference, the WFCO lithium chargers will Bulk at 14.6V for up to four hours, then will hold in Absorption at 13.6V. there is no Float charge.


Just my two cents. If I have any facts incorrect, please let me know.

Excellent post on the limitations of the WFCO lead acid charger while connected to a lithium battery. Since the lithium battery is a top balance design, I believe its essential to use a dedicated lithium charger. Its also good to use a DC DC lithium charger, where its never good to parallel connect two different battery technologies that operate at different voltage levels.

Jim

[dannyq]

dannyq -- with regards to Jim's note, if I can echo what I believe he's saying it's this: install the wiring for the full (end game) system right from the start. At least in my experience the wiring was the worst part. Do it once and then swap out (or in) the parts later as you go.

If you haven't seen it yet, I posted all the electrical mod links I've done (well, most of them) in one thread here: https://gdrvowners.com/forum/operati...lts-f-350-mods

While my setup is a bit much (I'd scale it back if doing it today), the information in the threads may trigger some thoughts, ideas, or questions. There's many individuals here who have now installed their own system.

Howard

Thank you Howard and Jim,

Howard I had not seen your post. It is a work of art to me, also a daunting task at this time for me. I will need to consult on how to wire it all to do component "swap out", in the future.


Danny

[Guest]

tonygoncalves ,

I should also mention that battery life will be maximized if storing the battery between 40%-50% SOC. Lithium batteries will have the highest longevity if kept away from their extremes such as the fully discharged or fully charged states. So, operating a lithium battery between 20%-80% SOC will maximize longevity. Some may not be concerned about this and will use the full range of the battery (s) while camping but there is no reason to have the rig sit unused with the batteries at 100% SOC.

My battery is charged fully just before each trip and the Victron BMV-712 is set to 100% SOC. Toward the end of our trip, I'll run the lithium battery down to around 60% SOC and do a final discharge once we're home to a storage level of 50%.

Jim

[Carol G.]

Why not place the batteries in the storage area under bed? Is there danger in that. I cannot find anything that addresses this issue.