Getting AC Power to all outlets

[JBRV2020]

I have factory solar on my 2021 25G. The only outlets that seem to have power when I'm running my 1000 watt inverter are located in the Kitchen as far as I can tell. Have any of you found a way supply power AC to all the outlets when dry docked? I realize I could run a extension cord around this thing but would like to keep it as clean as possible.

[Jkwilson]

A 1000W inverter is pretty limited on what it can supply. Running your refrigerator will use a big chunk of it.

[JBRV2020]

Trust me I fully understand the 1000W issue. I'm looking to solve the issue of having power where I want it. Like the TV in the bedroom for example.

[ncitro]

Trust me I fully understand the 1000W issue. I'm looking to solve the issue of having power where I want it. Like the TV in the bedroom for example.

I would think your first step would be to see where they installed the inverter. If it's by your breaker panel it should not be too bad to add a transfer switch and power at least one side of your panel (assuming your rig is 50A, if it's 30A you'd be able to power the whole thing). If however it's physically located near the kitchen outlets it feeds that gets a lot more tricky, and I'd probably just add another inverter to run everything else.

As John said, if you go the route of feeding your whole panel with the factory inverter, you'll have to be careful what loads you turn on. The refrigerator and parasitic loads will eat up 1000 watts very quickly

[JBRV2020]

This is my intension: I have 400Ws of Lithium batteries on the way already. Replace the factory inverter to at least 2000W and maybe 3000W. Replace the factory charger to a lithium friendly version.

This is my concern: That even after another $600+ invested in this system the only outlets that are usable when not hooked up to shore power or on a generator are those in the kitchen. The simple solution would be to put a power strip on the dresser in the bedroom and plug directly into the inverter with little effort. But if there is a reasonably easy fix that doesn't require me cutting into the walls of my TT I would prefer that.

The inverter is located in the outside storage area behind a false wall. This places it far from the kitchen and close to the control panel, converter and batteries located on the tongue.

[ncitro]

This is my intension: I have 400Ws of Lithium batteries on the way already. Replace the factory inverter to at least 2000W and maybe 3000W. Replace the factory charger to a lithium friendly version.

This is my concern: That even after another $600+ invested in this system the only outlets that are usable when not hooked up to shore power or on a generator are those in the kitchen. The simple solution would be to put a power strip on the dresser in the bedroom and plug directly into the inverter with little effort. But if there is a reasonably easy fix that doesn't require me cutting into the walls of my TT I would prefer that.

The inverter is located in the outside storage area behind a false wall. This places it far from the kitchen and close to the control panel, converter and batteries located on the tongue.

I'd recommend you install your new inverter to feed the circuits not on the factory inverter then. That way when you are unhooked from shore power the factory inverter will feed the kitchen area and your new one will feed everything else.

Also for what it's worth depending what inverter you get you won't need a lithium converter. Most inverters that have a built in charger can handle lithium just fine. I've used both the Magnum and Victron, and they both allow you to customize the charge profile to suit your battery bank, including lithium. Having had both I'd recommend the Victron.

[TucsonJim]

My approach would be a transfer switch option. Install a transfer switch and wire is so that you can power the main panel and a sub panel when you're on shore power. The sub panel would feed the converter. Then, when your running your inverter, all the 120V loads would work except for the one with the converter. You can also consider powering the high current loads such as the AC's through the sub-panel when you're on shore power.

I use a manual Blue Sea transfer switch. When I'm on shore power, my converter is powered up. When I'm on inverter power, it's not. Here's my wiring diagram - The blue line shows how I connected to a separate breaker. Note, the ground lines and neutral are shared. You could run a separate ground and neutral to the new panel.

[JBRV2020]

What do you think the factory has done to the system to allow the outlets to work when hooked up to shore power but not when I'm using my inverter? Is there a simple way to just bypass this "switch"? If i were to replace with a Victron 2000 or 3000 multplus would there be a chance I could bypass this "switch" since this thing has the charger, inverter and transfer switch already in it? I dont mind spending the extra $ for a more inclusive unit if it solves the problem. What scares me is when this stuff gets really technical and I already don't like the idea of having to go out into my outside storage area and turning on a inverter.

[ncitro]

What do you think the factory has done to the system to allow the outlets to work when hooked up to shore power but not when I'm using my inverter? Is there a simple way to just bypass this "switch"? If i were to replace with a Victron 2000 or 3000 multplus would there be a chance I could bypass this "switch" since this thing has the charger, inverter and transfer switch already in it? I dont mind spending the extra $ for a more inclusive unit if it solves the problem. What scares me is when this stuff gets really technical and I already don't like the idea of having to go out into my outside storage area and turning on a inverter.

I'd imagine the factory inverter has a transfer switch built into it (same as the multi plus) and it's input is a circuit off of your mail panel. It's output is the kitchen outlets that are live when you're unplugged from shore power. To bypass it, you would remove the factory inverter and just splice the input and output 115v wires. Cap off the 12v wires. Since you've got it already I would just leave it and not put that circuit on the new inverter. That would give you the option of running your fridge off of the small factory inverter without firing up the multi plus if you're looking to conserve power. Just a thought though, removing it would certainly be an option.

[howson]

Is there a simple way to just bypass this "switch"?

Simple? Depends on the experience and knowledge of the individual doing the work. For most of us the answer is "No". Possible? Absolutely yes.

What do you think the factory has done to the system to allow the outlets to work when hooked up to shore power but not when I'm using my inverter? I dont mind spending the extra $ for a more inclusive unit if it solves the problem. What scares me is when this stuff gets really technical and I already don't like the idea of having to go out into my outside storage area and turning on a inverter.

Current configuration: Shore Power feeds the main circuit breaker panel. The sub-panel is fed by one circuit breaker on that main panel through a transfer switch. So in short hand, the path is:

Shore Power > Main Panel > Sub Panel Circuit Breaker > Transfer Switch > Sub-Panel > Sub-Panel Breakers > Outlets

The Transfer Switch state depends on shore power. Shore power available? The path above applies--all circuits in the trailer are available. If Shore Power is not available, the transfer switch moves to the inverter. Short hand path:

Batteries > Inverter > Transfer Switch > Sub-Panel > Sub-Panel Outlets > Outlets

As you can readily see, only the items on the sub-panel will work off the inverter.

Jim's solution puts the transfer switch between Shore Power and the Main Panel.

Shore Power > Transfer Switch > Main Panel > Sub Panel Circuit Breaker...

Lose shore power? Switch to the inverter which is powered by the batteries.

Batteries > Inverter > Transfer Switch > Main Panel > Sub Panel Circuit Breaker...

What must be understood is a 50A RV Power Distribution Panel is designed for two 120vAC/50A lines from the shore--up to 100A! (That's why there are two 50A "main" breakers on the panel.) A setup that is tied directly into the main panel must be manually load managed--it is very easy to overload an inverter that is only capable of 25A sustained output.

Jim's solution is a manual switch (brilliant, cost-effective solution) vs something like AMSolar's Smart Phase Selector that is an automatic transfer switch.

Not sure if you've seen my threads or not, but two that may help you understand is https://gdrvowners.com/forum/operati...s-in-a-315rlts and https://gdrvowners.com/forum/operati...er-overloading

Howard

[JBRV2020]

[JBRV2020]

The above photos hopefully will help a shed some more light on what we got going on. Does this help at all? BTW this is a 30A unit.

[howson]

The above photos hopefully will help a shed some more light on what we got going on. Does this help at all? BTW this is a 30A unit.

??? All of the info in post 10 still applies, the only difference is a 30A unit has a single 120V line so the solution is easier to implement. It appears the text isn't helpful--sorry 'bout that.

I mean no disrespect, but if Jim's solution or my explanation is like reading a foreign language, finding a qualified RV technician, electrician, or even (gasp) a dealer service center to help navigate this subject is probably the best solution.

But if you're willing to do the work; keep reading, researching, and asking pertinent questions. I had to spend a lot of time on this topic (even with my avionics background) to understand the who-what-where-when-why of these setups.

Howard

[Cate&Rob]

I'd recommend you install your new inverter to feed the circuits not on the factory inverter then. That way when you are unhooked from shore power the factory inverter will feed the kitchen area and your new one will feed everything else.

Running two inverters at the same time will get complicated in correctly dividing up the neutrals and grounds for each source of electricity.

I would agree with the observation that a 1000W inverter can only supply less than 8A. Feeding this into a system designed for either 30A or 100A is going to require careful power management. You are going to have to shut off or unplug 120V things that might come on automatically every time you switch to inverter power. The water heater and battery charger (converter) come to mind. There will also be parasitic 120V power consumption through appliance memory, clocks, indicator lights, etc, which could eat up 1 or 2 of those 8 amps.

A possibility for adding a second inverter would be to wire it to dedicated outlets where you want them. This idea was mentioned earlier. Installing new outlets is less complicated than the transfer switch scenarios described earlier in this thread. This is what I have done as we seldom use inverter power and do not have solar recharging. I have installed dedicated inverter outlets in the kitchen, bedroom and my front storage compartment workshop.

Rob

[JBRV2020]

You will never hurt my feelings. So I appreciate you being candid with me. I'm just trying to wrap my head around it all.

So if I understand Jim's solution and using what I currently have I would wire it like this:

Shore power > CSW-TS15 Transfer Switch > AC Main Breaker Panel > AC Sub Panel

Batteries > 1000W Inverter > CSW-TS15 Transfer Switch AC Main Breaker Panel > AC Sub Panel

And if I wanted to upgrade my system all I would need to do is remove the 1000W Inverter, Transfer Switch and converter.

Shore Power > Multiplus > AC Main Breaker Panel > AC Sub Panel

Batteries > Multiplus > AC Main Breaker Panel > AC Sub Panel