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  • Victron Battery Monitors or Others - Why Do I need One?

    Yep I am back. And yes after all my reading I feel like a dummy. There is a lot I still need to learn. Today I read through all the posts I could find on Battery Monitors. There is an excellent thread here on a BMV 712 reading incorrectly. Most of the parameter discussion went over my head honestly, but I know there is something important on the need for one. Bottom line it seemed more trouble than it might be worth. Makes me wonder if the other folks that have these adjust them periodically as needed? Do the other brands need adjustment too?

    Now my solar controller reads battery voltage and % charge depending on the battery type selected. It also shows charge rates in amps. So I already have a device that shows the voltage and hopefully % charged correctly. I am assuming per the manual it will be looking for the float charge voltage of 14V for lithium. This is the controller I have https://gpelectric.com/products/30-a...ler-bluetooth/

    So Why do I need more in a battery monitor?? Besides I have all the pretty lights on the control panel right? .....NOT

    Assumption - Long term I will have some sort of Battle Born battery bank. Short term is undecided.

    Part 1
    Almost everywhere I looked and read only one brand of battery monitor was in real use Victron. They have three models. BMV 700, BMV 702, and BMV712. While the keypad works to set some parameters ,to fully program the 700 and 702 model you need the Blue Tooth smart dongle https://www.victronenergy.com/access...h-smart-dongle its about $50. However Will recommended a $35 Chinese one on his YouTube vid (100Amp shunt)

    Now the BMV712 has the Blue tooth built in (if I read correctly) so if I learn how to use my smart phone I might be able to set it up. What could go wrong

    So if I am running an inverter and new progressive charger what would the battery monitors due for me? Or if I go MultiPlus with the color control or other monitor what does the battery monitor provide that the control panel does not? I can already see battery state and voltage the solar charger is showing - correct?.

    Part 2
    And Last - the supplied 500 amp shunt. Never heard of one before and am clueless as to how it works except to read amp draw.. I am totally baffled as to how they show it hooked up (between negative and loads) They don't show a frame/ground connection. I guess with a MultiPlus I would put it between it and the bus bar on the negative side. However with just and inverter I would see nothing with it in line to that unit if it is not turned on. Also how does it pick up the loads off of the existing RV positive buss bar

    Normally from the battery's the negative goes to ground/frame - correct, but with the inverter it needs is own negative feed so from the bus bar one negative leg would go to the inverter, while a second leg would go to the frame. So does the shunt go between the negative bus bar and frame? and the inverter come off the the load side of the shunt? So in reality where does the Shunt actually go?

    What am I missing? Yes go ahead and laugh - they did not cover this in either HS or College electrical class - all I remember is transistors and diodes and something else - yes blowing up large can capacitors - the really big ones

    Thanks
    Keith
    Ill go hide in my corner now.
    Last edited by Yoda; 01-09-2021, 06:53 PM.
    2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th whee, Star White 2022 F350 King Ranch CC Long bed (HAL) (CCC 4062lbs), B&W 25K OEM Companion,. SteadyFast system, Trailer reverse lights, rear receiver spare tire holder, storage tube, sumo springs, Victron MultiPlus 12/120/3000, Solar, Custom 6K axles upgrade, and other modifications.

  • #2
    Regarding Part 2. The shunt should be the first item connected to the negative battery cable. Then, you can run a cable to your ground buss bar.

    Here is how mine is hooked up.
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    There are quite a few parameters that the 712 provides. Here are some shots.

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    ​​​​​​​Jim
    Jim and Ginnie
    2024 Solitude 310GK
    GDRV Technical Forum Moderator
    GDRV Rally Support Coordinator

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by TucsonJim View Post
      Here is how mine is hooked up.
      Thanks Jim - that actually clears up some of my confusion. So from my planned buss bar if put it on one side to the frame and the other side goes to the Victron or or inverter, etc. then I should be good.

      You have yours in the enclosure as it exposed to the elements - correct? If I am in my front bay I wont need the enclosure?
      Last edited by howson; 01-20-2021, 12:22 PM. Reason: Shortened quote...
      2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th whee, Star White 2022 F350 King Ranch CC Long bed (HAL) (CCC 4062lbs), B&W 25K OEM Companion,. SteadyFast system, Trailer reverse lights, rear receiver spare tire holder, storage tube, sumo springs, Victron MultiPlus 12/120/3000, Solar, Custom 6K axles upgrade, and other modifications.

      Comment


      • #4
        Yoda That's right. If you have it in the front bay you'll be fine. If you go with a GX solution of some kind (like we talked about in the other thread) you still need the BMV, but it reports to the GX. I put my BMV display in the front bay so I could access it via bluetooth from the truck while driving, and when inside I use either my phone or the Victron display on my pi (same as the CCGX). I used to have the old model with the dongle, I sold it to a buddy and switched to the 712, because you couldn't have it connected to the GX and dongle at the same time. Also I think (not positive) the 712 uses less power.

        If your solar controller has a shunt and can measure current draw and battery % (only accurate way to do this is with a shunt) then you might be okay without the Victron. That would be up to you.

        If you want another brand to consider, on my SOB trailer about fifteen years ago I had a Trimetic 2020. No Bluetooth, Ave a pain to configure and setup, but it did the job.
        Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

        Neil Citro
        2018 Reflection 28BH Pepwave
        2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

        Comment


        • #5
          Yoda

          Endless videos on YouTube...
          Updating Your Battery Monitor And Why You Should!



          How to Monitor RV Batteries On A Budget.

          Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

          2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by howson View Post
            Yoda

            Endless videos on YouTube...
            This is what I'm using. Kinda falls in between those two.

            https://www.renogy.com/500a-battery-monitor/
            Robert and Chris
            2021 XLS 22MLE (somewhat factory stock)
            2018 Silverado 1500 Z71 Crew Cab

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Yoda View Post

              Thanks Jim - that actually clears up some of my confusion. So from my planned buss bar if put it on one side to the frame and the other side goes to the Victron or or inverter, etc. then I should be good.

              You have yours in the enclosure as it exposed to the elements - correct? If I am in my front bay I wont need the enclosure?
              You can run it directly to the frame and then run a wire to your ground buss bar, or you can run it right to your buss bar and then run a wire from one of the studs to the frame.

              On the enclosure that's correct. Mine is exposed to the elements, so the case protects it.

              Jim
              Jim and Ginnie
              2024 Solitude 310GK
              GDRV Technical Forum Moderator
              GDRV Rally Support Coordinator

              Comment


              • #8
                Yoda
                I copied TucsonJim 's enclosure solution not because my shunt is exposed to the weather (elements) but because it is in the passthru and is exposed to accidental collision with other items. The 'ol "ounce of prevention..."

                Howard
                Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by TucsonJim View Post

                  You can run it directly to the frame and then run a wire to your ground buss bar, or you can run it right to your buss bar and then run a wire from one of the studs to the frame.

                  On the enclosure that's correct. Mine is exposed to the elements, so the case protects it.

                  Jim
                  OK you just lost me, but that does bring up a question on wiring to the existing positive bus bar (I don't remember an existing negative one)

                  Click image for larger version

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ID:	39688 Its not a very good picture of the existing wiring, but when I did my CPAP fuse block I pulled power form the existing buss bar (lower right corner of photo). From what I remember all the negative cables run to a large grounding lug (where yellow wire runs our of picture. You can barely see all the white ground wires going there below the cover

                  No matter what I do my CPAP fuse block needs to move along with shelving, etc., but I was going to leave the existing positive bus bar that is under the cover alone.

                  I was planning on using the Victron Connect (fancy buss bar to save space) to connect all the battery's cabling, install a 400A use and disconnect switch. then run a separate positive cable to the existing positive bus bar(like existing positive battery cable does). Another positive cable would run form the disconnect switch to the Victron or Inverter, converter/charger.

                  Now from your comment above I think I missed something. You have me thinking that to properly install to the shunt I need a separate negative bus bar to tie in all the existing negative wires that currently go to the ground lug. Then put the shunt between that buss bar and the frame (old grounding lug location, but up-sized). Or see if all the existing ground wires can be attached to the negative battery side lug on the shunt (messy) and the other leg then goes to ground.

                  In other words all existing ground wires and any new ones need to be somehow tied to the negative battery side of the shunt for it to work properly. Am I thinking correctly? There may be other ground locations - do those need to be run forward?

                  Thanks
                  Keith
                  2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th whee, Star White 2022 F350 King Ranch CC Long bed (HAL) (CCC 4062lbs), B&W 25K OEM Companion,. SteadyFast system, Trailer reverse lights, rear receiver spare tire holder, storage tube, sumo springs, Victron MultiPlus 12/120/3000, Solar, Custom 6K axles upgrade, and other modifications.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You most certainly don't need a buss bar for the grounds. But I just found it easier to bring all the different grounds to one place For example, you can see from the photo below that GDRV tied several grounds together with a wire nut, including the one to the frame. In the second photo, I cleaned that all up by tying the grounds together with a buss bar.

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                    Jim and Ginnie
                    2024 Solitude 310GK
                    GDRV Technical Forum Moderator
                    GDRV Rally Support Coordinator

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by TucsonJim View Post
                      I cleaned that all up by tying the grounds together with a buss bar.
                      So all the grounds don't need to be tied in front of the shunt then. Correct? I can just leave everything as is and place the shunt between the battery bank and ground?
                      Thanks
                      Last edited by howson; 01-20-2021, 12:23 PM. Reason: Shortened quote.
                      2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th whee, Star White 2022 F350 King Ranch CC Long bed (HAL) (CCC 4062lbs), B&W 25K OEM Companion,. SteadyFast system, Trailer reverse lights, rear receiver spare tire holder, storage tube, sumo springs, Victron MultiPlus 12/120/3000, Solar, Custom 6K axles upgrade, and other modifications.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Keith, I crawled back under to take a photo of the rest of my ground system. In this photo, you can see the 2/0 AWG wire running from the shunt to the primary ground buss. Then, there is a 2/0AWG ground wire running from the buss to the inverter. There is a 8 AWG wire running from the MPPT controller to the ground buss. And finally, an 8 AWG wire running from the ground buss to the frame to act as chassis ground.

                        To answer your question above "So all the grounds don't need to be tied in front of the shunt then. Correct?". In reality, they are. If you took a meter, you'd find continuity between all the ground points on the chassis, buss bars, etc. It's not different than wiring all the grounds to the single lug on the shunt. But it's much more convenient and organized to run them off of buss bars or similar terminals to keep things organized. As you can see, I actually have two ground buss bars in my rig to keep every thing organized. If you measured continuity with a meter, you'd see that the two buss bars are connected (via the frame connections).

                        Click image for larger version

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                        Jim
                        Jim and Ginnie
                        2024 Solitude 310GK
                        GDRV Technical Forum Moderator
                        GDRV Rally Support Coordinator

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by TucsonJim View Post
                          Keith, I crawled back under to take a photo of the rest of my ground system...
                          Jim
                          Thanks your so much. I think I now understand. I moved my trailer today to the winter spot. Work to continue in the spring. Gives me a lot of time to plan and organize. I have a nice piece of plywood in the garage and I will use it to mock up everything. Meanwhile I will order parts as allowed. Got my damaged solar panned replaced.Etrailer is fantastic to work with. So now I need wiring, lugs, tools,........... and make up my mind on what I am going to do. Maybe I should do that first..... but whats the fun in that

                          Thanks for crawling under to help explain things.
                          Have a great weekend

                          Keith

                          PS I think the BMV 712 is in my future
                          Last edited by howson; 01-20-2021, 12:24 PM. Reason: Shortened quote.
                          2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th whee, Star White 2022 F350 King Ranch CC Long bed (HAL) (CCC 4062lbs), B&W 25K OEM Companion,. SteadyFast system, Trailer reverse lights, rear receiver spare tire holder, storage tube, sumo springs, Victron MultiPlus 12/120/3000, Solar, Custom 6K axles upgrade, and other modifications.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Yoda View Post
                            ...all existing ground wires and any new ones need to be somehow tied to the negative battery side of the shunt for it to work properly. Am I thinking correctly? There may be other ground locations - do those need to be run forward?
                            When I did mine I eliminated the factory bus bar and added a fuse panel like you are using for your CPAP only bigger. Had plenty of room for the factory circuits, plus the circuits I added and much easier to troubleshoot down the road. A couple of the circuits were 50 amp and the panel was not rated that high so I used inline DC breakers for those.

                            https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

                            https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1



                            I put the Multiplus on its own disconnect switch, and everything else on a second disconnect (I eliminated the factory disconnect). This way I can isolate the Multiplus from the other DC loads for troubleshooting and during install. I find this has worked out well. I did leave the power feed to the BMV before the disconnect so it works all the time even when the switches are off.
                            Last edited by howson; 01-20-2021, 12:24 PM. Reason: Shortened quote
                            Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                            Neil Citro
                            2018 Reflection 28BH Pepwave
                            2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

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                            • #15
                              Yoda I went back and found some better photos from my install.

                              Click image for larger version

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                              This one is part way through. You can see the large 4/0 red wire that will connect to the batteries. It feeds the 400 amp fuse, then the shut off and the inverter. You can also see the black wires that will connect to the battery and then go to the shunt. On the other side of the shunt one 4/0 wire goes to the Multiplus and a 2AWG wire feeds the DC bus bar. Both of these are on the "load side" of the shunt. Above the bus bars you see the disconnect switch for the solar panels and the circuit breaker for the charge controller. Not shown here is how the positive bus bar gets fed.


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                              This is to the right of all there where the factory bus bar is. You can see I replaced the factory bus bar with the fuse panel. This was before I got the circuit breakers I linked above, so I have the factory breakers hanging there. Power comes into that bus bar from the left, and feeds the two 50 amp circuits and the fuse panel. You can see the factory ground stud towards the bottom.

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                              This one shows it all in place (I do not have one of it tidied up and tie wrapped sadly). In the middle behind the batteries you can see the disconnect switch for the bus bars. Power comes into that from the batteries. Its output feeds the bus bar over by the solar controller. It also goes to a 100 amp fuse to its right which then feeds the bus bar to the right that is shown up above.

                              Attached Files
                              Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                              Neil Citro
                              2018 Reflection 28BH Pepwave
                              2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

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