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AM Solar's Smart Phase Selector - How does it work with factory sub panel?

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  • AM Solar's Smart Phase Selector - How does it work with factory sub panel?

    My 2020 Solitude 310GK-R came with the factory 300w solar system which includes a 2,000w inverter and a sub panel for the residential fridge. The sub panel powers the fridge and most of the 120v outlets. I'm upgrading the factory solar system and plan to replace the inverter with a Victron 3,000w Multiplus. To keep the wiring to the panel simple, I was planning on buying the AM Solar Smart Phase Selector. Adding this device to my system is the same as adding the Progressive Dynamics EMS as far as wiring goes (it gets wired at the same location in the panel as the EMS is currently connected).

    In thinking more about this, I'm now wondering how the Smart Phase Selector works if you already have a sub panel. I think the purpose of the Smart Phase Selector is to basically avoid the need for a sub panel by providing power to both legs of the panel with a single inverter.

    Sooooooo, will the Smart Phase Selector work with my rig?
    Brian & Kellie
    2020 Grand Design Solitude 310GK-R, FBP, MORryde IS, 1,460w solar and 540ah BBGC3
    2020 Ford F-350 Platinum SRW PSD Tremor, 60g TF fuel tank, Hensley BD3-F air bag hitch

    Previous setups:
    2019 Grand Design Solitude 373FB-R, 2019 Ford F-350 Platinum DRW Powerstroke, Hensley BD5 air bag hitch
    2016 Grand Design Reflection 318RST, 2016 GMC 3500 Denali SRW Duramax, Hensley BD3 air bag hitch

  • #2
    bertschb

    Super basic outline showing how power flows through the camper with shore power.

    Click image for larger version

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    I'll show what happens without shore power next post...
    Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

    2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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    • #3
      bertschb

      Same basic diagram, no shore power.

      Click image for larger version

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      Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

      2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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      • #4
        bertschb

        Now with the Victron and Smart ATS, shore power ON.

        Note this is a BASIC FLOW diagram showing how it could work with the transfer switch--there are many different ways to actually implement the system (remove the sub panel, remove the OEM transfer switch and wire the sub panel directly off the Power Distribution Panel). It is assumed that the OEM inverter is disconnected from the battery in these next two diagrams.

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        Last edited by howson; 02-22-2021, 12:04 PM.
        Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

        2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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        • #5
          bertschb

          Now with no shore power (Smart ATS and Victron).

          Click image for larger version

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          Again, very simplistic overview. I hope it helps.

          Howard
          Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

          2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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          • #6
            What happens when one wants to use the Victron MultiPlus as a battery charger in the above diagram with the SPS? I assume the SPS always sends power to the MultiPlus as well as the Power Distribution Panel in this case.
            2021 Solitude S-2930 RL
            1200 watts solar, 3KW inverter, 400 A/Hr LiFePO4 batteries
            2020 Ford F-350 CC LB Crew Cab SRW 6.7L 4x4 3.55

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            • #7
              Originally posted by openrangeowners View Post
              I assume the SPS always sends power to the MultiPlus as well as the Power Distribution Panel in this case.
              Yes, when on shore power.

              The Victron has both a 120vAC power in and a 120vAC power out.

              The reality of how power flows is more complicated than shown--shore power actually flows through the Victron and then to the Distribution Panel. I was just trying to show Brian how the Transfer Switch interacts with the system.

              By no means are the diagrams above comprehensive or all-encompassing.

              An (older) AMSolar diagram (when they called it the Smart Auto Transfer Switch).

              Click image for larger version

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              For complete info on AMSolar's product, see https://amsolar.com/rv-inverter-accessories/50-tsfmb1

              Reminder: I'm just a customer of AMSolar's, I am not affiliated with them otherwise in any way, shape or form.

              Howard
              Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

              2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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              • #8
                Yes - that is the diagram I was thinking of.
                2021 Solitude S-2930 RL
                1200 watts solar, 3KW inverter, 400 A/Hr LiFePO4 batteries
                2020 Ford F-350 CC LB Crew Cab SRW 6.7L 4x4 3.55

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                • #9
                  I tried something like this with a manual switch instead of an SPS https://allaboutrvsinfo.com/wp-conte...-as-builts.pdf

                  From the following website ....
                  Last edited by openrangeowners; 02-22-2021, 02:04 PM.
                  2021 Solitude S-2930 RL
                  1200 watts solar, 3KW inverter, 400 A/Hr LiFePO4 batteries
                  2020 Ford F-350 CC LB Crew Cab SRW 6.7L 4x4 3.55

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Granted I have not seen a factory install yet, but I would assume you could eliminate the sub panel if going with the SPS, if the wiring is close enough to the main panel to move those loads into the main panel. That would move all of your breakers to one place I guess, and maybe simplify some wiring, but as howson shows it would not be necessary.
                    Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                    Neil Citro
                    2018 Reflection 28BH Pepwave
                    2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

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                    • #11
                      ncitro ,
                      It definitely may be possible. bertschb will have to confirm, but there may be two blanks above the "Sub-Panel" breaker on the top 50A circuit in the Power Distribution Panel, or PDP. (I labeled this circuit "L2" on my panel.) The sub-panel itself likely has three breakers (one is a "double" 15A breaker). They might be labeled GFCI, Gen2 (as in General Outlets 2) and Gen1.

                      The issue may be the length of the wires. If the sub-panel is under the stairs (like we saw in a recent photo from another owner) the wires won't reach the PDP.

                      I think he can effectively get the same result by replacing the transfer switch with a junction box, right? In other words hard-wire the sub-panel so it is always powered from the PDP.

                      Alternatively, the good thing about leaving all the OEM equipment is it will make taking the Victron equipment to his next RV easier. Note Brian's sig line--he will be going to different rig at some point!
                      Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                      2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        A valid point on moving rigs lol. I definitely had an eye on moving my gear when I redesigned it. I figure I can take everything out and put it back to relative stock in a couple hours, and just leave the panels on the roof (not worth moving), and keep the inverter switches, solar controller, DC to DC charger and batts.

                        RE the junction box, I would think so. That said given his comments earlier about messing with the wiring he may want to go your route and keep the subpanel. Both should work if I am understanding the SPS and your drawings correctly.
                        Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                        Neil Citro
                        2018 Reflection 28BH Pepwave
                        2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ncitro View Post
                          A valid point on moving rigs lol. I definitely had an eye on moving my gear when I redesigned it. I figure I can take everything out and put it back to relative stock in a couple hours, and just leave the panels on the roof (not worth moving), and keep the inverter switches, solar controller, DC to DC charger and batts.

                          RE the junction box, I would think so. That said given his comments earlier about messing with the wiring he may want to go your route and keep the subpanel. Both should work if I am understanding the SPS and your drawings correctly.
                          You've got it right--the transfer switch won't know where the 120vAC is coming from (shore or Victron). All it knows is that 120vAC is coming from the Power Distribution Panel so that side of the transfer switch will stay engaged.
                          Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                          2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by howson View Post
                            ncitro ,
                            It definitely may be possible. bertschb will have to confirm, but there may be two blanks above the "Sub-Panel" breaker on the top 50A circuit in the Power Distribution Panel, or PDP. (I labeled this circuit "L2" on my panel.) The sub-panel itself likely has three breakers (one is a "double" 15A breaker). They might be labeled GFCI, Gen2 (as in General Outlets 2) and Gen1.

                            The issue may be the length of the wires. If the sub-panel is under the stairs (like we saw in a recent photo from another owner) the wires won't reach the PDP.

                            I think he can effectively get the same result by replacing the transfer switch with a junction box, right? In other words hard-wire the sub-panel so it is always powered from the PDP.

                            Alternatively, the good thing about leaving all the OEM equipment is it will make taking the Victron equipment to his next RV easier. Note Brian's sig line--he will be going to different rig at some point!
                            Sorry I've been away from the forum working in my basement all day (moving the rear wall further to the rear). It has turned out better than I expected but man I'm sore!

                            Here are photos of my sub panel and main panel (I have a 2020 Solitude 310GK-R with factory solar). This is under the hutch just as you walk in the door. BTW, the fridge is the middle breaker even though the label is above the right breaker.

                            As for moving on to another rig, I was looking at alternative floor plans pretty seriously a couple months ago but this model is growing on me and the more work I do, the less likely it is I'll switch to something else. Expanding the basement storage area actually makes a pretty big difference and addresses one of the things I didn't like about this model. After adding solar, I'll be even less likely to switch. This rig will be pretty sweet when I'm done with the solar upgrade.

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                            Brian & Kellie
                            2020 Grand Design Solitude 310GK-R, FBP, MORryde IS, 1,460w solar and 540ah BBGC3
                            2020 Ford F-350 Platinum SRW PSD Tremor, 60g TF fuel tank, Hensley BD3-F air bag hitch

                            Previous setups:
                            2019 Grand Design Solitude 373FB-R, 2019 Ford F-350 Platinum DRW Powerstroke, Hensley BD5 air bag hitch
                            2016 Grand Design Reflection 318RST, 2016 GMC 3500 Denali SRW Duramax, Hensley BD3 air bag hitch

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              It would depend how the wiring is run, but from the photo it looks like the wires might reach to the main panel if there's room in it.
                              Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                              Neil Citro
                              2018 Reflection 28BH Pepwave
                              2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

                              Comment

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