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Champion Generator w/Victron CCGX and Multiplus Inverter (Lessons Learned)

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  • Champion Generator w/Victron CCGX and Multiplus Inverter (Lessons Learned)

    In the recent Champion Generator propane adapter thread I alluded to "issues" with running the generator in my Victron-equipped 315RLTS. This post will attempt to document the issue and steps to overcome the problem. In a second post I'll post performance data.

    I know this information will only apply to a small subset of owners...but since I need to document this for myself to remember the settings(!)I thought I'd share the info.

    PROBLEM
    No 120vAC passed to the trailer from a running generator.
    • Bonding plug installed
    • 15A to 50A Adapter installed at generator
    • Progressive Electrical Management System (EMS) was showing 120v on both legs and the display was showing "E0" (no faults)
    • Tow/Shore switch set to "Tow" (all circuits available in trailer on the inverter--a highly specific mod I did to my trailer)
    RESOLUTION

    1) On the CCGX change the Multiplus' SWITCH state to OFF

    Click image for larger version  Name:	Generator Test 1.JPG Views:	0 Size:	83.0 KB ID:	44033


    2) Change AC INPUT 1 from SHORE POWER to GENERATOR

    Click image for larger version  Name:	Generator Test 2.JPG Views:	0 Size:	89.5 KB ID:	44034

    3) Change Multiplus' Input Current Limit to 13.5A*

    For those who may not understand this setting--it tells the Multiplus how much current is available from the source. Normal shore power limit is 50A (at a campground, etc). The Input Current Limit setting keeps the Multiplus from demanding too much power from the generator.

    Click image for larger version  Name:	Generator Test 3.JPG Views:	0 Size:	51.4 KB ID:	44035
    *13.5A had the scale on the generator flashing 100% output (on and off). Pic below. This meant the output was just below 100%--there was likely a bit more capability left because the outlet symbol was still green (a red outlet symbol indicates overload). I could have gone to 14A, maybe even 14.5A, or possibly even 15A on the Input Current Limit? I didn't want to push the generator too hard for an extended period. The electrical math wizards here will calculate that 13.5A is 1620W. The propane rating of the generator is 1800W. Again, my choice was to be a bit on the conservative side.

    Click image for larger version  Name:	Generator Flashing.JPG Views:	0 Size:	90.3 KB ID:	44036


    4) Ensure the generator is NOT in ECO mode (should be running at full power).

    5) On the CCGX change the Multiplus' SWITCH state to ON (reverse steps shown in step 1)

    After a moment the inverter will show power coming from the generator.


    Click image for larger version  Name:	From Generator.JPG Views:	0 Size:	182.3 KB ID:	44037

    Questions? Fire away...

    Howard
    Last edited by howson; 11-01-2023, 05:02 AM.
    Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

    2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

  • #2
    For those who haven't read all the related posts, the generator used in this test is a small dual-fuel Champion rated at 1800W on propane. The actual output reported coming into the trailer by the Victron setup in my trailer was ~1500W.

    PERFORMANCE DATA

    Not a comprehensive test and it was only done once, but this gives me some idea of the time it may take based on the current State of Charge (SoC) and how much propane will be consumed.

    TIME vs SOC
    First, random sample of data while charging on the generator from 64% to 80% SoC. There was only a small load on the trailer (Winegard Gateway Router, Carbon Monoxide tester, etc). This load was ignored in these calculations. Remember my battery bank consists of 4ea 100aH Battle Born LifePO4 batteries (so 400Ah total).

    Click image for larger version  Name:	Chart.JPG Views:	0 Size:	48.8 KB ID:	44043

    Assuming a linear charge because they are LifePO4 batteries, the SoC increased at a .35% per minute rate (16%/46 minutes). Another way of looking at is ~1.4 amps of capacity added to the battery bank per minute (400aH * .35%). So if the SoC is 50% and 100% is the goal, I can expect to run the generator for ~2.5 hrs.

    To expand a bit on that prior paragraph, if the battery bank is at 50% SoC that means 200aH is required to get to 100%. 200aH / 1.4 amps per minute = about 2.5 hrs, rounded up. This assumes no input from the solar panels and no loads drawing power from the trailer. (Solar will deduct time, any load consumed will extend the charge time.)

    To use another example, a single 100aH Battle Born showing a 50% SoC requires 50 amps to reach 100%. 50/1.4 = about 40 minutes to reach 100% SoC (100aH).

    PROPANE CONSUMPTION
    I weighed the 20lb propane bottle prior to starting the test and afterwards. The difference was .6 lbs ("point 6 pounds") for a run time of ~50 minutes. That's about .012 lb per minute. So for the earlier example of needing to run 2.5 hrs to go from 50% to 100% SoC, I can expect to consume about ~2 lbs of propane to get 200aH in my battery bank.

    This seems too good to be true, so I'll need to run this test again to confirm the consumption data. Maybe my math is wrong...I know there's only a very small subset of owners that have read this far but maybe someone will check it. I gotta get ready to go to work...

    Howard

    Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

    2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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    • #3
      Any idea what the significance of changing it from shore power to generator is? Does it tolerate a faster swing on the voltage or something? Granted I’ve got a bigger champion than you but I’ve never had to do that.
      Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

      Neil Citro
      2018 Reflection 28BH Pepwave
      2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by ncitro View Post
        Any idea what the significance of changing it from shore power to generator is? Does it tolerate a faster swing on the voltage or something? Granted I’ve got a bigger champion than you but I’ve never had to do that.
        I have no idea what the difference is, but my system refused to pass power until I switched the AC INPUT 1 to generator. Victron's documentation is not too forthcoming on exactly what, why and how settings interact with each other. Even when information is found it may be out-of-date due to firmware updates.

        I'll repeat this scenario again to see if I can duplicate the issue and if it happens again I'll send an email to AMSolar asking if they can fill in the "why".

        Howard
        Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

        2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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        • #5
          That’s interesting. I’ve never had to mess with that, Andy I’ve run off the generator a fair bit. I’m not 100% sure what I’ve got L1 set to, as I recall there were a few ambiguous choices when I set it up, but I think I’ve had it on both with no issue.

          Edit: I checked and I’m set to shore. I’ll have my rig out at the end of next week, I’ll fire up the generator and test it. Like you say, could be firmware version.
          Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

          Neil Citro
          2018 Reflection 28BH Pepwave
          2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

          Comment


          • #6
            ncitro -- could it be because I have ESS enabled and the assistant loaded in the Multiplus? From the ESS manual:

            4.5. GX device - Other settings
            4.5.1. Settings -> System setup -> AC Input types
            Set the AC Input type to Generator when connected to a generator. The system will then enable generator-charging and correctly load the generator when running. Note that we recommend wiring the Generator to AC-in 1, and the Grid to AC-in 2. The reason is that the Quattro will then prioritize the Generator over the Grid. That arrangement offers maximum flexibility (allowing forced generator intervention even when the grid is available) and maximises control.
            More configs to test next week. Glad I'm testing while at home and not on the road in a "gotta have it work right now" situation...
            Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

            2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by howson View Post
              ncitro -- could it be because I have ESS enabled and the assistant loaded in the Multiplus? From the ESS manual:

              4.5. GX device - Other settings
              4.5.1. Settings -> System setup -> AC Input types
              Set the AC Input type to Generator when connected to a generator. The system will then enable generator-charging and correctly load the generator when running. Note that we recommend wiring the Generator to AC-in 1, and the Grid to AC-in 2. The reason is that the Quattro will then prioritize the Generator over the Grid. That arrangement offers maximum flexibility (allowing forced generator intervention even when the grid is available) and maximises control.
              More configs to test next week. Glad I'm testing while at home and not on the road in a "gotta have it work right now" situation...
              It could be, I have not played with ESS so I would think mine is turned off. The only thing that gives me pause there is it mentions the Quattro, I think that reference is to the internal transfer switch it has, to manage whether you are on AC1 or AC2 (I think it has two inputs).

              What confuses me about it is that for an inverter generator there should really be no way for it to tell you are on a generator or shore power. The waveform of the generator output is actually cleaner than the shore power at my house lol. My frequency and voltage are dead on, and with the bonding plug in the neutral is bonded, so as far as the Multiplus is concerned it should not be able to tell the difference.
              Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

              Neil Citro
              2018 Reflection 28BH Pepwave
              2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ncitro View Post

                It could be, I have not played with ESS so I would think mine is turned off. The only thing that gives me pause there is it mentions the Quattro, I think that reference is to the internal transfer switch it has, to manage whether you are on AC1 or AC2 (I think it has two inputs).

                What confuses me about it is that for an inverter generator there should really be no way for it to tell you are on a generator or shore power. The waveform of the generator output is actually cleaner than the shore power at my house lol. My frequency and voltage are dead on, and with the bonding plug in the neutral is bonded, so as far as the Multiplus is concerned it should not be able to tell the difference.
                Yep--I sure didn't understand either. Getting ready to depart on a trip (yes, I actually camp in my trailer!) for a week and will be boondocking, so might get an opportunity to do more tests.
                Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

                Comment


                • #9
                  Yeah I hear you, I barely get the Multiplus lol. We are heading out Friday, and should be doing some as well, so I may have a chance to play too.
                  Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                  Neil Citro
                  2018 Reflection 28BH Pepwave
                  2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

                  Comment

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