Momentum 21G Owners -- Need Your Input!

[howson]

This post is a result of https://gdrvowners.com/forum/solar/4...solar-inverter

The best information I have so far is, ...the 21G inverter powers: 1 outlet in the bedroom, 1 outlet in the kitchen, and 1 in the Main TV area. This should be the same on all Momentum TT’s.

If you own a 21G (or Momentum travel trailer--not 5th wheel) please map out your outlets when running on the inverter (not shore power). Which ones work? Just put a red dot (or whatever) showing where the outlet is and that it works when on the inverter. You can use the attached file as a template if desired or do you own (whatever works for you).

Also, what circuit breaker (or breakers) control the outlets powered by the inverter?

Thanks in advance for your help!

Howard

[acoleman43]

The transfer switch is a 15A switch, so it looks like all outlets are on one "Inverter" 15A breaker.

Outlet locations are red circles. Breaker panel location is purple circle.

Inverter only comes with the "solar package". Inverter is only 1000W. Things for Grand Designs to improve: They really should have a 2000W inverter with all outlets and microwave on the inverter circuit. Also there should be a 12v fridge with the "solar package" instead of the 2 way fridge.

[howson]

The transfer switch is a 15A switch, so it looks like all outlets are on one "Inverter" 15A breaker.

Perfect! Thank you. The trailer has an automatic transfer switch so these outlets will be powered when shore power is lost as long as there's battery power (see Gee Whiz Info below).

One more question: When the Inverter breaker is turned off, are the identified outlets the only loss or are there other electrical items that don't work?

You're right that a 1000W inverter is quite limiting--that's only 8.33 amps of 120vAC at maximum (sustained).

Gee Whiz Info

I found on the Parts List that there appears to be multiple possible configurations in the 21G.

One configuration is a WFCO T30 Automatic Transfer Switch (ATS) installed on the back of a WFCO 8900 series Power Distribution Center (PDC), part # 430072. This configuration probably has the "hard wired" version of the inverter (as shown in the parts list, part # 430064).

Another similar configuration has a GE PDC, part # 430111.

Yet another option is the 1000 watt w/transfer switch (part # 430073).

The point in documenting the information above is to provide an example of why the moderators urge owners to call GD Customer Service to find out the configuration of their trailer or, if a DIY'er, to look and report the model # of the device when posting a question. Trailers, even in the same year and same model, may be different.

Howard

[acoleman43]

Good call. The panel next to the main panel is from the output of the inverter (see below). I was incorrect before. Looks like room to replace with a 2000W inverter and add some outlets and microwave

my setup is the Magnum inverter with transfer switch (part 430073) with the Jaboni MPPT (part 420554). My assumption is that this is the typical setup for the solar package, but I could be wrong.

[howson]

acoleman43 -- so what circuits does the breaker labeled INVERTER on the main panel power?

I'm not an electrician but it seems to me that it's odd to have a 15A breaker (on the Main Panel labeled INVERTER) feeding a subpanel with another 15A breaker (MAIN) which then goes out through yet another 15A (Kit/Bed/TV) breaker.

[Jlawles2]

howson Mu guess is the inverter breaker in the WFCO is the input to the inverter so it knows to auto switch to making power when it senses the loss.

The sub panel is then a bit of a mystery as it has more capacity than the breaker feeding it if its the stuff powered by the inverter. Unless Main on the sub panel is the input from the inverter when on shore power or making power, and the single breaker labeled Kit/Bed/TV is the out. Odd if they set it up that way.

acoleman43 can you pull the cover on the sub panel and see how the lines are routed (only do this if you are comfortable) ensure power is off, or that it's safe to pull the cover.

[acoleman43]

acoleman43 -- so what circuits does the breaker labeled INVERTER on the main panel power?

I'm not an electrician but it seems to me that it's odd to have a 15A breaker (on the Main Panel labeled INVERTER) feeding a subpanel with another 15A breaker (MAIN) which then goes out through yet another 15A (Kit/Bed/TV) breaker.

I have the same question. I flip the 15A inverter switch on the main panel and the inverter is still on and functioning normally. I have no idea what it does. Tempted to remove the panel and follow the lines (if there are any??)

[howson]

I have the same question. I flip the 15A inverter switch on the main panel and the inverter is still on and functioning normally. I have no idea what it does. Tempted to remove the panel and follow the lines (if there are any??)

This is exactly why mapping all of the outlets in the camper is the first step. The labels on the panel may be wrong. (They often are wrong.)

1) Identify all the outlets and 120vAC appliances in the camper.

2) Turn off all the breakers, including the sub-panel, except for the main panel's MAIN breaker(s).

3) Turn on one breaker and check all the outlets / appliances. Mark appropriately.

4) Turn off the first breaker and turn on the second. Check the outlets / appliances again, mark as appropriate.

Repeat until all the breakers have been switched on (one at a time) and all 120vAC appliances are mapped.

For the sub-panel, leave all main breakers OFF except for the Main and turn off shore power. Then power on the sub-panel and check all outlets / appliances again to verify (again) what is powered on just the inverter and if it only requires the sub-panel being on to power them.

Fun, eh? (Thanks for your willingness to do this!)

Howard

[acoleman43]

This is something that I find odd....why would any manufacturer be OK with incorrect labeling, messy wiring/plumbing? I would think some pride in your product/workmanship would take place. It just seem strange that this is acceptable practices in the industry.

I'll look over all the breakers this weekend.

[Country Campers]

This is something that I find odd....why would any manufacturer be OK with incorrect labeling, messy wiring/plumbing? I would think some pride in your product/workmanship would take place. It just seem strange that this is acceptable practices in the industry.

I'll look over all the breakers this weekend.

I wouldn't say it is incorrect labeling just incorrect wiring. The labels are probably put in place before the wiring is done. Then a whole bunch of wires are brought into the panel area and then somebody has to figure out where to put which wire. This leads to a color coded problem or mishap. There is no real color code and at the point of final wiring it would be hard to tell where to put the proper wire according to the label , so they just guess. Not ideal by any means but that is they way they all do it. Going to a schematic or proper wiring lay out with a harness of some kind would make all of this go away , but that will never happen.

Brian

[OffToHavasu]

Here's how it is on my 351M, except its 20 amps on mine. 20 Amp breaker --> Magnum transfer switch -->Sub-panel breaker. You want the "main breaker" in place to protect incoming current from the inverter. So although the sub-panel is protected by the breaker in the main panel when on shore power, it's not when on the inverter. It also serves as a disconnect to the other circuits. Not uncommon to be wired like this.