Tank monitoring

[bellis]

Has anyone ever attempted to do something different with tank monitoring? Has anyone used the Cerbo to do so?

Can the wiring go directly into the Cerbo GX or is the GX Tank 40 required?
https://www.victronenergy.com/media/.../index-en.html

Could you simply splice the wiring on the factory monitoring solution and use a Victron and factory solution simultaneously?

The Cerbo GX says it has 4 tank and four temperature ports.

Is anyone using additional temperature monitors off a Cerbo? (link to product please) and what are you using it for?

[howson]

Has anyone ever attempted to do something different with tank monitoring? Has anyone used the Cerbo to do so?

Can the wiring go directly into the Cerbo GX or is the GX Tank 40 required?
https://www.victronenergy.com/media/.../index-en.html

Could you simply splice the wiring on the factory monitoring solution and use a Victron and factory solution simultaneously?

The Cerbo GX says it has 4 tank and four temperature ports.

Is anyone using additional temperature monitors off a Cerbo? (link to product please) and what are you using it for?

I don't know, but an educated guess is the GX Tank 40 is not required. (That device is to add in tank capability to an existing system that doesn't have a tank connection. The Cerbo has such a connection--no need for redundancy.)

For the tank connections to the Cerbo, the manual states:

The tank level inputs are resistive and should be connected to a resistive tank sender. Victron does not supply tank senders. The built-in tank sensor connections do not support mA or 0-5V type sensors, this type will require additional accessories or replacement with a resistive type sensor.

So...the research assignment, should you choose to accept it, is to look through the Parts Lookup site to find the sensors and then try to figure out the OEM by looking at the picture and using Google. When you figure out the OEM and find their website, hopefully there are specs online to figure out what type of sensors we have in our trailers. (I really don't know!)

Maybe you'll get lucky and someone will know...but if not you'll be charting new territory, so make sure and report what you find!

Howard

[gbkims]

Interesting question of the tank levels into a Cerbo GX.
I had looked at one victron community thread and I didn't see an actual sensor that directly connects to the Cerbo GX, so forgot about it for awhile.
https://community.victronenergy.com/...endations.html

I've seen the picts of our tank level sensors connected thru the sidewall of the tanks and had a general idea how they send a voltage back to the monitor panel depending on how many sensors have liquid covering them.
This post explains in more detail - https://www.thorforums.com/forums/f2...nsor-1177.html

edit, couple more bits.
https://community.victronenergy.com/...2#answer-80492

I like this from Safiery: https://www.safiery.com/tanks
Tank Level via Pressure Sensors https://youtu.be/dh1SAEnkt7M

That's one of the same methods we used at work - 24V Loop Powered Rosemount 4-20mA Level Transmitters: https://www.emerson.com/en-us/catalo...-and-1199-seal

Looks like the GX 140 is a nice interface between a sensor & Cerbo GX as it would provide loop power to the transmitter(sensor)

[bellis]

I don't know, but an educated guess is the GX Tank 40 is not required. (That device is to add in tank capability to an existing system that doesn't have a tank connection. The Cerbo has such a connection--no need for redundancy.)

For the tank connections to the Cerbo, the manual states:

The tank level inputs are resistive and should be connected to a resistive tank sender. Victron does not supply tank senders. The built-in tank sensor connections do not support mA or 0-5V type sensors, this type will require additional accessories or replacement with a resistive type sensor.

So...the research assignment, should you choose to accept it, is to look through the Parts Lookup site to find the sensors and then try to figure out the OEM by looking at the picture and using Google. When you figure out the OEM and find their website, hopefully there are specs online to figure out what type of sensors we have in our trailers. (I really don't know!)

Maybe you'll get lucky and someone will know...but if not you'll be charting new territory, so make sure and report what you find!

Howard

I think you are right that the GX 140 is potentially redundant.
I will do some digging. This may take me some time as other camper projects have my focus at the moment. Maybe I will get lucky and someone will see this and know the answer.

Interesting question of the tank levels into a Cerbo GX.
I had looked at one victron community thread and I didn't see an actual sensor that directly connects to the Cerbo GX, so forgot about it for awhile.
https://community.victronenergy.com/...endations.html

I've seen the pics of our tank level sensors connected thru the sidewall of the tanks and had a general idea how they send a voltage back to the monitor panel depending on how many sensors have liquid covering them.
This post explains in more detail - https://www.thorforums.com/forums/f2...nsor-1177.html

edit, couple more bits.
https://community.victronenergy.com/...2#answer-80492

I like this from Safiery: https://www.safiery.com/tanks
Tank Level via Pressure Sensors https://youtu.be/dh1SAEnkt7M

That's one of the same methods we used at work - 24V Loop Powered Rosemount 4-20mA Level Transmitters: https://www.emerson.com/en-us/catalo...-and-1199-seal

Looks like the GX 140 is a nice interface between a sensor & Cerbo GX as it would provide loop power to the transmitter(sensor)

So, the link takes you to the page and I found 2 links where you could buy sensors. They look like you have to drill a hole in the top of the tank and install the sensor?

Waste
https://acdcmarineinc.com/shop/marin...-tank-sending/

Fluid
https://acdcmarineinc.com/product-ca...level-sensors/

I love in the post you linked how it shows a % of water though. That is fantastic....not sure I want to drop the tank and drill a hole....but the current sensor setup is not great.

This https://community.victronenergy.com/...2#answer-80492 seems to indicate that the GX 140 and Cerbo GX tank sensors are not necessarily redundant. That they may function differently (different voltage/amperage inputs)? If I am reading that correctly, the GX Tank 140 may work with existing sensors and the Cerbo GX may not?

This link https://www.safiery.com/tanks has a youtube video where the installer has both a Cerbo GX and Tank GX 140 installed side by side. This seems to indicate to me the above - that the way the inputs on the Cerbo GX and GX Tank 140 are different, function different, and have different input levels. I really like what Safiery is doing. It may be worth a call / email to them. I had not considered a propane sensor. I had seen some other bluetooth or other solutions that people have used there....but am not really a fan. I would be tempted to tie that in with the Cerbo GX if possible. The downside for me is 2 propane bottles, 2 grey tanks, 1 fresh, and 1 black = 6. So, if trying to do all of them (thanks Safiery) I would need 2 to work off the Cerbo GX. Jeez...expensive though. It looks like they also have a refrigerator temperature sensor?

Looks like I will have to decide if I want to replace the sensors with something better (ideal)? If I replace, there may be different types of sensors to choose from.

Thanks to both of you....again this post for those watching may take me some time to research, choose a course of action, and develop. Unless someone else posts the sensors / OEM info on the sensors we have....I will plan on trying to dig that information up and then find out what electrical signal they transmit. I may try to reach out to Victron or a Victron rep and see if I can get confirmation on the difference between the GX device inputs.

[gbkims]

What I'd like to see get developed would be interfacing the Garnet 709-RVC PM Seelevel II Tank Monitor external sensors that communicate via RV-C.
Victron doesn't seem inclined to do that so far.

Garnet: https://www.garnetinstruments.com/support-documents/

I see one technically sharp fellow, Kevin Windrem has done some work for the Garnet N2K (NMEA 2000) senders into the Venus OS, as Victron does support N2K:
https://community.victronenergy.com/...d-victron.html
https://github.com/kwindrem/TankRepeater

External sensors would be more likely to give good readings on Gray, Black tanks

Saw this post where another fellow did some serious leg work with Sea Level senders into a Rasberry Pi
Read signal of an RV Tank Sensor https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/v...?f=29&t=119614

edit - GX 140, my impression is that the GX 140 does sensor signal conditioning and providing sensor power, then sending process readings to the Cerbo GX via USB.
Similar to how PLCs use I/O modules for 4-20mA transmitters, TC and RTD temperature input conditioning modules.

[Jlawles2]

I might be worried about how tall the top of those sending units stick up. I'd almost be willing to bet the floor would need modification to make it work. ON the 303 the tanks are listed at 7" and 7-1/2" tall. I need to measure the I-beams in the frame to see if how close they are to that depth, not forgetting there is a support frame under them also.

[ncitro]

What I'd like to see get developed would be interfacing the Garnet 709-RVC PM Seelevel II Tank Monitor external sensors that communicate via RV-C.
Victron doesn't seem inclined to do that so far.

Garnet: https://www.garnetinstruments.com/support-documents/

I see one technically sharp fellow, Kevin Windrem has done some work for the Garnet N2K (NMEA 2000) senders into the Venus OS, as Victron does support N2K:
https://community.victronenergy.com/...d-victron.html
https://github.com/kwindrem/TankRepeater

External sensors would be more likely to give good readings on Gray, Black tanks

Saw this post where another fellow did some serious leg work with Sea Level senders into a Rasberry Pi
Read signal of an RV Tank Sensor https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/v...?f=29&t=119614

edit - GX 140, my impression is that the GX 140 does sensor signal conditioning and providing sensor power, then sending process readings to the Cerbo GX via USB.
Similar to how PLCs use I/O modules for 4-20mA transmitters, TC and RTD temperature input conditioning modules.

Yeah I’ve been warning this closely too since I’m running the Venus OS on my raspberry PI and I’ve wheat got the seelevel system running anyway (which works great by the way). I’d really like to see it integrated in.

[bellis]

I am in sensor overload/heaven....safiery also sells a magnetic LPG (propane) sensor and various temperature sensors - including a refrigerator sensor. The fridge temp sensor would interface with the cerbo gx directly. We usually turn our refridgerator on 24 hours or more prior to camping....would be nice to see the data to see how cold it is.

The tank sensors and the LPG sensor all require the GX Tank 140. If I wanted to go nuts....that's 6 sensors and 4 spots on the GX Tank 140.....or (2) GX Tank 140 devices....meaning my last 2 USB ports on the Cerbo GX. One is used for the Touch 50 GX. If I really wanted all 6, meaning (2) GX Tank 140's...I think that destroys the possibility of a GX LTE device if I ever wanted one. I was thinking about starting another thread for a wifi type upgrade/mod anyway....but I like that I could maybe have the GX LTE on with most other things off and get data and the GeoFence with GPS.

How hard would it be to get a temp sensor in the refrigerator when it is in the slide?

[ncitro]

I am in sensor overload/heaven....safiery also sells a magnetic LPG (propane) sensor and various temperature sensors - including a refrigerator sensor. The fridge temp sensor would interface with the cerbo gx directly. We usually turn our refridgerator on 24 hours or more prior to camping....would be nice to see the data to see how cold it is.

The tank sensors and the LPG sensor all require the GX Tank 140. If I wanted to go nuts....that's 6 sensors and 4 spots on the GX Tank 140.....or (2) GX Tank 140 devices....meaning my last 2 USB ports on the Cerbo GX. One is used for the Touch 50 GX. If I really wanted all 6, meaning (2) GX Tank 140's...I think that destroys the possibility of a GX LTE device if I ever wanted one. I was thinking about starting another thread for a wifi type upgrade/mod anyway....but I like that I could maybe have the GX LTE on with most other things off and get data and the GeoFence with GPS.

How hard would it be to get a temp sensor in the refrigerator when it is in the slide?

I’d think you could use a usb hub. I use one on my pi with no trouble.

Wiring the sensor in should be easy. Follow the existing power cables under the slide, they go in and out on a spring.

[howson]

How hard would it be to get a temp sensor in the refrigerator when it is in the slide?

On my previous Dometic I ran the power for an internal fan down the drain tube. Wasn't difficult. Once you've got the cable behind the refrigerator...Bob's your uncle...(I don't know why that phrase came to mind but there it is).

[bellis]

Thanks howson and ncitro for the fridge reassurance. I may try that at some point.

I may do a 12V to 5V project in my entertainment center soon as well as lighting (another whole post)....if so....@ncitro I will see if the USB hub or conversion works to power the screen for me. For now, FYI the Cerbo USB port nearest HDMI is the only one that is powered.

Still trying to figure things out....been emailing Bruce at Safiery. Will try to provide some details from there.

I found this recently:
https://www.victronenergy.com/access...sender-adapter

Expensive.

Maybe I do not have a good grasp on how the existing sensors work? The Resistive tank sensors now go directly to the control panel or is there a Sender that they connect to first? I like that it has the VE.CAN interface....instead of USB...I just have no idea how to use it.

[ncitro]

Thanks howson and ncitro for the fridge reassurance. I may try that at some point.

I may do a 12V to 5V project in my entertainment center soon as well as lighting (another whole post)....if so....@ncitro I will see if the USB hub or conversion works to power the screen for me. For now, FYI the Cerbo USB port nearest HDMI is the only one that is powered.

Still trying to figure things out....been emailing Bruce at Safiery. Will try to provide some details from there.

I found this recently:
https://www.victronenergy.com/access...sender-adapter

Expensive.

Maybe I do not have a good grasp on how the existing sensors work? The Resistive tank sensors now go directly to the control panel or is there a Sender that they connect to first? I like that it has the VE.CAN interface....instead of USB...I just have no idea how to use it.

I played with them a little on my old camper. They connect to a little red plastic gizmo that does something to the signal.

Something like this:

KIB K101 Replacement Tank Wire Harness https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007HRRBTM...ing=UTF8&psc=1

[bellis]

Here is some more info.....just dumping my email with Safiery into here. Tried to put his responses in bold. It looks like I may need to be patient. But, I am coming to find that we cannot trust our black or grey tank (fresh is broken atm?) at all. Would be really helpful to know their actual levels. It may seem overkill to run 2 GX Tank 140's, but we are planning a long boondocking trip this Sept. Propane use will be more important (cooking, heating, water heating, fridge, AND generator). I don't want to sacrifice the 4 tanks for monitoring for propane though....maybe I need to use a different sensor...but I do not really want to drill into my tank....looking for easier. If someone wants to volunteer to help me install...I will reciprocate!

We have had another 3 day long weekend here (4th in 2 months) and I didn’t catchup on everything.


Comments below :

However, the Victron Touch 50 display is a disappointing GUI in our opinion. The device list and data is rich but the display is more for houses than RV’s. The motorhome display is a shocker…

So we are writing a new display software GUI running in the 3rd partition of the Cerbo (Vader at Victron is aware and seen draft and is impressed). With this project, we can see several tanks and digital inputs etc. Its about 3-4 months away yet from completion and there are some road blocks to overcome so not assured.

On 4 May 2021, at 5:27 am, bellis wrote:
Bruce:
I am sure you are busy....so apologies for the emails. I just want to make sure I understand the products you sell and how to install them before purchasing. I am part of a group on facebook (2,300 members) and another forum where people are closely following what I end up doing here and some of them may follow suit.

1. Is it possible to use (2) GX Tank 140 devices with (1) Cerbo GX. It has enough USB ports to use 2....but does that work? The manual says it is powered over USB, but if that port on the Cerbo (1 powered USB) is occupied; does the external power slot power the unit?

I dont know. However, our stock of GX 140’s arrive today. I have to setup and test for more than 1. This may take a few days, the schedule is very full.

2. This temperature monitor can be wired directly to the Cerbo GX? How many of these devices will the cerbo support? Anything I should know about wiring it up? Do I need to cut the end off to connect to the Cerbo? Would this work for ambient room temperature too? https://www.safiery.com/stainless-temperature-sensor

No this sensor doesn’t work with the Cerbo. Victron use an active temp sensor. I also have our own product in development as the Victron one is clunky and big. They really designed it for batteries. Ours will be more suitable for general temps. Again it is a work in progress. The chips come in this week and then we have to test then finalise packaging.

3. Is it possible to convert the LPG sensors to resistance? ...therefore have the ability to connect to Cerbo GX directly?

No

4. Is there any device larger than the GX Tank 140 that would allow for voltage based sensors? IF (2) cannot be used?

No

Please work up options (multiple quotes) if you feel it necessary. Would love to be able to monitor: 1 fresh tank, 2 grey tanks, 1 black tank, and 2 LPG tanks). Strongly prefer not to have something in the tank or to have to drill a hole into a tank. Not sure what options that leaves me with.

If 2 x GX 140 tanks work then this is fine.

[ncitro]

bellis yeah it sounds like the integration is still in the “working out phase” and time is needed. If you’re looking to improve accuracy for your trip, I can whole heartedly recommend the SeeLevel system. I run with dual displays, one in my wet bay and one inside next to the control center. It’s great for a more accurate reading on the tanks. I use the wet bay one when flushing the black so I know when it’s getting close to full. I didn’t expect the fresh display to be so useful, but when boondocking it’s been great to have a more “detailed” tally of water on hand. I’ve had mine for three years and it’s been great.

For propane I use the Mopeka system. It gave me some trouble early on, with batteries dying and sync issues. I bought a 12v to 3.3v power supply on Amazon for like $5, and wired them to that, fed of great rig batteries and it’s been flawless. You have to be comfortable soldering to pull this off, but if you are it’s a piece of cake, just solder the wires to the battery terminals. You can tell it in the app the size of your tanks (30 pound), and it gives a percentage of the tanks. I use propane for my generator if the sun is hiding, so propane can go quick. Since I tied them to the power supply they’ve been flawless.

I’d love to have it all integrated to one display, but the individual systems work so well I don’t mind.

[ncitro]

This is the display from the propane app (spare used to be a twenty pound tank I carried that I don’t have right now, so the sensor isn’t on anything).