Tank monitoring

[bellis]

Gear is now all in....Safiery did not send longer cables as requested.....and the propane ultrasonic sensors with the chip - do not have any cabling coming from the processor to the GX Tank 140. So, I ordered this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 to bridge that gap.

I think I still need to pick up some jelly for testing as well.

Last night I did hook up the powered USB hub previously purchased....it received power from just over USB for now. I started to wire up the 12V power supply for that powered USB hub, but did not complete it. I did hook up (1) of the GX Tank 140s and it is showing up through the powered hub on the Cerbo and in the VRM.

I may not get a chance to work on it more until the weekend. I need to re-read the manuals and maybe some of the content on this thread though.

Here is what it looks like (not configured) in the VRM.

[applewpb]

Some of the sensors will have shorter runs, and you can cut off the excess and splice the short cables to add length. I soldered and heat shrank the splice. You will need the KY jelly for sure to test your location before you permanently install the sensor. Mine continue wo work as expected.
Good luck with the install, I will keep checking the post to see how things are progressing.

mark

[bellis]

OK - so all 4 ultrasonic sensors are installed. I used https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 purchased for the ultrasonic LPG sensors to extend the ultrasonic liquid tank sensors.....tested and it worked. Wire ferrule kit was a must...probably took more time, but also may make it easier.

@applewpb
What settings in your GX device did you use?
Did you use a custom shape?
Can you tell if yours is reporting levels accurately?

I used all defaults except turning on low or high level alarm as appropriate (depends on tank) and changing the unit to U.S. gallon and setting total tank size (as well as naming them). I don't think my fresh tank is reporting accurately. I thought it was much fuller than 8%. I pumped a couple gallons in to the Grey 2 and Black and it stayed on 8%.

I may extend the kitchen grey tank sensor tomorrow evening so I have more flexibility on mounting the GX Tank 140 somewhere as well as cleanup and possibly install the (2) LPG sensors.
LPG sensors not installed yet.

At first my black tank was flashing like all the others....then a long flashed pause....then it resumed flashing normally...repeating....I tried to take a video...but it appears to have stopped. Here is a shot of the VRM. I need to take a pic of the Cerbo GX. I did enable the new tank screen...it's pretty slick.

[applewpb]

Good job! I purchased a water meter (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1)that will indicate how many gallons went into my tank, and then I can do any calibration needed. I set everything to default per instructions and no special tank shape; knowing what I think I added to my fresh water tank, I feel the reading is accurate. 8% of 80 gal is about 6.4 gal, do you think that is what you have in there?
Things were pretty simple once you got started, correct?
Mark

[bellis]

Good job! I purchased a water meter (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1)that will indicate how many gallons went into my tank, and then I can do any calibration needed. I set everything to default per instructions and no special tank shape; knowing what I think I added to my fresh water tank, I feel the reading is accurate. 8% of 80 gal is about 6.4 gal, do you think that is what you have in there?
Things were pretty simple once you got started, correct?
Mark

Yes. Pretty simple. Any maybe I am just off on how much I think I have in there.....but I filled it completely (not level though) before we left our last location.....we have used some since then......but we have a 52(?) gallon fresh tank? I just don't think I have 4-5 gallons in it....I think a lot more. I ran the faucet and toilet a bit to get some in the bathroom grey and black....and I ran them full tilt for a while....still 8%.

I have a water meter as well....may just have to see if it changes if I top it off this weekend.

[applewpb]

Let me know what you find out about your tank levels, I would be interested in knowing. I am getting ready for a trip out west for a month, and that is when I will be using the tanks on a daily basis. Then I can see what my readings are, and the accuracy.

[Scott'n'Wendy]

Very interesting thread. I never clicked on it for a while because I figured it was just someone asking how to make the original equipment sensors to work.....which... you really can't. But then the thread went multiple pages...So I figured I better see what's going on.
Love the diy engineering. But I have to ask. This has to be in excess of $1K. The SeeLevel 2 709-4 will give you percent readings on four tanks for $465cdn. Under $300usd. It has a lot of good reviews.
What made you want to go the more expensive route?

Disclaimer...I DO NOT work for SeeLevel..lol

[bellis]

Very interesting thread. I never clicked on it for a while because I figured it was just someone asking how to make the original equipment sensors to work.....which... you really can't. But then the thread went multiple pages...So I figured I better see what's going on.
Love the diy engineering. But I have to ask. This has to be in excess of $1K. The SeeLevel 2 709-4 will give you percent readings on four tanks for $465cdn. Under $300usd. It has a lot of good reviews.
What made you want to go the more expensive route?

Disclaimer...I DO NOT work for SeeLevel..lol

So, 3 reasons for going with this type of setup over Seelevel or others.

1. Easy install - The ultrasonic sensors from Safiery are the only ones like that I found. I think it is hard to work under the camper and above the cloroplast. I wanted something simple that did not involve pressure sensors, plumbing or drilling holes in tanks.

2. I could not find a resistive sensor that was easy to install, accurate, AND would work with the Cerbo GX without the GX Tank 140.

3. Single pane of glass. I didn't want to mount another screen / monitoring system in the coach. I have the GX Touch 50. I wanted it to be on the same screen and on the same online portal for monitoring. Sometimes simple is worth a few extra dollars....one less system to maintain or keep track of.

If you were only doing 4 tanks, that would be (1) GX Tank 140 and (4) sensors. GX Tank 140 from inverter supply = ~$100. NOTE: prices on Safiery site are in AUD not USD $$$. So, depending on the conversion rate....this may not be as pricey as you think. The S&H is awful = $125 AUD....but you are probably looking at approximately $400 USD for the above. I think all in you could do it for $500-600 USD. Now, if you add propane, it will jump...but that is with a 2nd GX Tank 140, I bought a USB hub, and the LPG sensors were much pricier.

I guess I would ask you and others - why would you go with Seelevel? (there may be really good reasons or different things that are important to each of us)....those are mine....to each their own /smile I hope that helps you. I am still working on configuring it....but will admit that I and applewpb probably are a little bit of a trail blazer with this setup.

[bellis]

applewpb

So....here is the latest. I emailed sales@safiery.com 6 days ago....no response. I emailed again tonight to let them know their support page link is broken and their international # is not working for me....asking for how to get support. May end up emailing Bruce directly. (hate doing that).

LPG sensors - I lost the jelly container....going to pick up another so I can test those. They are showing 0%....but with them being magnetic...I forgot/didn't realize they needed jelly to work. Which makes sense....it is an ultrasound.

Per previous posts...I set tank levels, names, and changed to US gallons. Full disclosure....we did a terrible job of leveling this weekend....but I completely filled all 4 tanks (fresh, grey 1, grey 2, and black). We know they were full (again were not level....but water was backed up in sink and shower and one of the low point drains were spilling water when I filled the fresh tank. With full tanks the GX Touch 50 was not showing full tanks.



I changed the voltage when full on the fresh tank from 10V (default) to 1.2V (what it was showing while the tank was full). When I did this, it showed 98-99% full. With the lack of level setup....this seemed reasonable. I did not drain the fresh to check it further.

I tried to upload a video of me changing the Grey 1, Grey 2, and Black to show full. The upload attachment says it is too large. If anyone has a suggestion, I am happy to upload it. The short of it is - I changed the full voltage to the current voltage when I knew the tanks were full. That got me to this screenshot.



Then....I went and dumped black and both grey tanks.




As you can see here....I do not believe the black or either grey are in the 20%. While I let them drip for a while....I doubt dumping on ground that is also not level ever gets it 100%. And my wife probably put a little water and chemicals in before I took the picture....but she didn't put 10 gallons in.

So....I am not sure how to improve the accuracy further. Trying to get a hold of Safiery. I still think this is a good setup....just need to figure out how to properly configure it for better accuracy. I am guessing what I did - changing the voltage....may not have been the right answer?

[bellis]

I pulled my tank sizes from Grand Design's webpage. Not sure this is accurate.

https://www.granddesignrv.com/showro...orplans/2400bh



I have 2 grey tanks, so I divided by 2 to figure the size for each. I have a 2020 2400BH. The info above may be for a 2021-2022? Does anyone know if I need to get different data? I think the manual is generic and shipped with a number of imagines and do not expect it to have the tank size.

[bellis]

Well - this just in from Safiery.

Set a value when empty

Then they will be fine

Cheers

Bruce

[Scott'n'Wendy]

I guess I would ask you and others - why would you go with Seelevel?

For me, I guess it would be
1/ Easier install. Sensors attach the same, glue to the outside, but it's a serial bus so you don't need to run any new wires. You can use existing.
2/ Cheaper, and reportedly accurate and a 3 year warranty. (probably not quite as accurate as what you are doing though)
3/ Source of replacement parts in Alberta Canada or Texas, USA.

If I already had installed equipment such as yourself, I'd likely do the same as you.

I haven't gone with an aftermarket system yet. Just evaluating..

[howson]

For me, I guess it would be
1/ Easier install. Sensors attach the same, glue to the outside, but it's a serial bus so you don't need to run any new wires. You can use existing.
2/ Cheaper, and reportedly accurate and a 3 year warranty. (probably not quite as accurate as what you are doing though)
3/ Source of replacement parts in Alberta Canada or Texas, USA.

If I already had installed equipment such as yourself, I'd likely do the same as you.

I haven't gone with an aftermarket system yet. Just evaluating..

I'm waiting for more about the Tank Whisper setup. https://rvwhisper.com/tank-whisper/

I emailed the company and got a response that they are in field-testing. I asked if they knew about compatibility with Victron's GX140 and got a ? response--they didn't know. It would be great if the Tank Whisper: 1) made the existing sensors more accurate and 2) allowed me to buy a GX140 to integrate with my existing Victron equipment with the OEM sensors.

Time will tell. No rush on my part, but definitely "on the radar". Hopefully someone else will try it first so all I have to do is copy their (successful) result.

Howard

[bellis]

1/ Easier install. Sensors attach the same, glue to the outside, but it's a serial bus so you don't need to run any new wires. You can use existing.

I would dispute that. I have seen the sensors from SeeLevel....and maybe it would be easier in your Reflection than it is in my Imagine, but I can't hardly get to the sides and definitely cannot get my hand in where the existing sensors are on the Fresh tank....even with the Chloroplast down. I think the ultrasonic sensors are 10x easier at least to install. At least on my rig.

2/ Cheaper, and reportedly accurate and a 3 year warranty. (probably not quite as accurate as what you are doing though)

Safiery Sensors have a 2 year warranty. https://www.safiery.com/warranty

3/ Source of replacement parts in Alberta Canada or Texas, USA.

I prefer to buy made in USA products.....and if I were willing to take more time and hassle on sensor install....a sensor from the USA may have worked. For that matter, Safiery has several resisitve sensors that would work for me with the Cerbo GX and without the GX Tank 140....but my installation difficulty would have been much harder. With the chloroplast down, I do not consider the sides of the tank easy access. I also did not want to drill or drop the tank to install the sensors. That's a royal mess and I would probably break things in the process.

For me, I guess it would be
1/ Easier install. Sensors attach the same, glue to the outside, but it's a serial bus so you don't need to run any new wires. You can use existing.
2/ Cheaper, and reportedly accurate and a 3 year warranty. (probably not quite as accurate as what you are doing though)
3/ Source of replacement parts in Alberta Canada or Texas, USA.

If I already had installed equipment such as yourself, I'd likely do the same as you.

I haven't gone with an aftermarket system yet. Just evaluating..

Well - I guess I should add - I already had the Cerbo GX AND the Touch 50 GX. I am already almost 100% Victron. (Only thing not Victron is the batteries).....so....another system just doesn't make sense. But, if you don't already have a Cerbo or Color Control GX....well why not? /smile

But, let's go a bit deeper than bullet points and pros and cons that have been listed so far. With SeeLevel 2, existing wiring can be used...MAYBE.....but a panel still needs installed - IE display?

Not trying to dissuade you from Seelevel...I think they make a nice product. But, I think the Seelevel 2 looks antiquated and maybe cheap. I don't think that SeeLevel II would look half as good in your reflection as the Touch 50 GX would. You have a premium rig.....I wouldn't put subpremium looking parts into it.

https://www.garnetinstruments.com/pr...onitor-system/



vs a color touch screen?



Not to mention the screen I just showed also can show a ton more info (solar, battery, discharge, inverter status, and so much more). If you are in the Victron world.

Make sure you compare to the Seelevel II 4 tank system and not a 3 tank system (if that is what you have - I have 2 grey tanks). I guess my GX Tank 140 is limited to 4 tanks....but I can add multiple to my Cerbo GX. Or if willing to use resistive / harder to install sensors, I would not need the GX Tank 140 at all.

There are some material differences in scalability, maybe quality, look and feel (more premium). I should add as part of the review that the Safiery sensors felt well made, and had a premium touch/feel/construction. As to cost....would love to know what someone who has put a Seelevel 2 system in paid....including ALL install costs....which parts used etc. ACTUALLY - I think that would be a big help to this thread and to some who are looking into. I think that SeeLevel Sensors could be used with the Cerbo GX (that would be interesting). I also think if you did 4 ultrasonic sensors and only 1 GX Tank 140....you could do it for sub $500. At the end of the day....I am going to go out on a limb and say the Victron setup is nicer.....and I don't think it is going to cost that much more especially if you are already trending Victron. I also only see one switch on the 4 tank system for the heater. I have a propane heater AND electric heater switch. So, if I were to install the seelevel II I would probably wire it so the old is still wired up and the new is also wired....Your Reflection has even more switches most likely (more slides/awnings).

As to USA vs international parts....keep in mind - the only parts I got from AU were sensors. There are other sensor options out there (not ultrasonic ones mind you) that could be purchased and used with the Cerbo without the GX Tank 140 or with the GX Tank 140. If I had gone with one of Safiery's resistive sensors - I could have saved $100 per GX Tank 140. But, my difficulty of install would have risen a good bit....but maybe have gained 1-2% accuracy. I WISH ultrasonic sensors were out there with resistive connectivity.....could have wired them straight into the cerbo! For that matter, you could wire your existing wires directly to a cerbo GX....but they will only work as good as they do now....on a better system/screen. I would encourage you to look around at different sensors. There are a decent amount of options out there. You may have better access to the underbelly of your Reflection (higher off the ground?) and be able to use a resitive style sensor that is FAR superior to what SeeLevel has. Check out this page and see if you can find something similar, resistive even in the USA. https://www.safiery.com/tank-level

Believe me - I would rather not have spent the money =) But, if it makes the DW happier and makes our camping easier....I guess I can't take it with me....

From page 7 on my install thread:
https://gdrvowners.com/forum/operati...uestions/page7

Look at the final product. I just think that makes for a cleaner looking install too. Seelevel II looks OK/nice....the GX Touch 50 or Color Control GX looks MUCH better.





Sincerely hope that helps! Safiery - well for me they are the only game in town that meets all my requirements for the liquid tanks....but I love the Victron gear....and the further I get away from the install...I may start to like Safiery more and more lol

This project is still fine tuning for me and probably for applewpb. But, I am hoping to add a temperature sensor to the main fridge....or maybe more than one depending on if I can get some directly connected to the Cerbo GX. If anyone has suggestions on thermometer probes that are a resistance based sensor (not volage) I would love to see some more options.

[applewpb]

Bellis
Great thread, and I feel as you do with the Safiery sensors. Having had the Victron equipment anyhow, it seemed the best way to go in my case as well.
Bruce says to set a value when empty…meaning the tank capacity? I will rely on your testing for now until I hit the road, then we can compare notes about accuracy and settings. And to your point, the CCGX is a beautiful way to see the poop tank levels.
Mark