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IMPORTANT!! 2021 303RLS Refrigerator Wiring Caused FIRE!!!

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  • #16
    Dennis66

    I think the white wire in the upper left of your pic might be the one in question.

    Brian
    Brian & Michelle
    2018 Reflection 29RS
    2022 Chevy 3500HD

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Dennis66 View Post
      His third pic must be the wiring leading to the receptacle by fridge? My fridge wiring comes off the back left and plugs in to the receptacle.
      Yes, the 3rd picture shows the routing of the 110v wire coming up from the floor about 4ft to a clamp, then it routes across (forward) and then back down to the outlet at the bottom. This is where the plug from the fridge control board plugs in.

      We have a green wire & a white wire that run up the wall on the "chimney" side. The green wire is secured with clamps with ample distance but the white wire (where is makes the turn to run across the back wall of the fridge) is touching the "chimney" and is discolored from heating up. It's just a matter of time before it chaffed and/or the heat burns through the wire coating.
      Sadie & Matt
      (w/ 2d Mate Toby the traveling tabby)
      2021 303 RLS
      2020 Ram 2500 CC 4X4 w/6.7L Cummins
      Andersen Ultimate Hitch

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by familytruckster4 View Post
        I saw plenty of electrical fires that never tripped the breaker, even had a breaker fry in my house once, scorched it enough to melt but it never tripped.
        Agreed. That's what we are so concerned and want to address the issue quickly. I tried to explain this to the GD Service Advisor/Tech I spoke to yesterday but his level of concern was minimal.
        Sadie & Matt
        (w/ 2d Mate Toby the traveling tabby)
        2021 303 RLS
        2020 Ram 2500 CC 4X4 w/6.7L Cummins
        Andersen Ultimate Hitch

        Comment


        • #19
          Update #2
          We have not received a response from GD Regional Service Manager I spoke to Thurs at noon.
          He said he needed pictures to evaluate before any repair options can be authorized. He also said we can't remove the fridge ourselves to inspect and repair without voiding the warranty on the Norcold fridge!

          We e-mailed the best pictures we had and asked for a mobile repair authorization. (hard to clearly capture with an iPhone in a confined space)
          We are in MA, 1200miles away from our dealer so can't use them.

          Sent pics on Thurs at 12;45pm. Friday at 10:00 I asked for an update and he emails and says he can't open attachments. I resend pictures Friday at 10:15am...no reply...email again at 3pm and still NO REPLY!!

          I guess GDs advertising slogan of "We take care of our customers after the sale" is just that...a slogan. Now they are closed until Monday.

          Does anyone know of any other options other than wait until Monday & call GD?
          Not knowing the extent of the repair needed, we didn't want to just hire & pay out of pocket, plus, we shouldn't have to; they should cover their lousy installation practices.

          Can I find and hire a mobile tech to inspect and repair then get reimbursed later?
          I thought there was something in the owner manual stating you could call a mobile tech on the weekends then call GD the next business day, but I think it states "for emergency" repairs.

          To say we are extremely disappointed with GD is an understatement....
          Sadie & Matt
          (w/ 2d Mate Toby the traveling tabby)
          2021 303 RLS
          2020 Ram 2500 CC 4X4 w/6.7L Cummins
          Andersen Ultimate Hitch

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          • #20
            Would there be any GD dealer around where you are? If there is..go there?
            2018 Dodge 3500 6.7 Cummins w Aisin and 9 cup holders
            Not to brag or anything about my finances, but my bank calls me about every day to tell me my balance is OUTSTANDING!

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Scott'n'Wendy View Post
              Would there be any GD dealer around where you are? If there is..go there?
              No service appointments for several weeks. It’s peak camping season in MA...everyone is slammed.
              Hoping to get authorization for me to pull fridge & repair without voiding warranty. 🤞🏽
              Sadie & Matt
              (w/ 2d Mate Toby the traveling tabby)
              2021 303 RLS
              2020 Ram 2500 CC 4X4 w/6.7L Cummins
              Andersen Ultimate Hitch

              Comment


              • #22
                Pull the fridge fix the issue and just dont tell anyone
                2021 Reflection 303RLS
                2019 Ram 2500 short box 6.4 Hemi
                Anderson ultimate hitch

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                • #23
                  Well it's hard enough to see inside there, and the fins look like they are 100 years old with rust. I need to go mirror inspect it again to see if I can see any wiring that may be questionable.

                  Edit: Went back out with the mirrors again. The white wire in the left of the picture shown is the condensate drain from what I can tell on my unit. There are no wires that I can see on the burner side of the unit except for those leading to the 2 heating elements and the fan at the top. It's hard to tell, but the refrigerant tubing runs down that side and is close to the heat tube. Waiting on pictures to upload to the cloud so I can pull them and post.
                  Last edited by Jlawles2; 06-12-2021, 06:31 PM.
                  Joseph
                  Tow
                  Vehicle: 2024 GMC K3500 Denali Ultimate Diesel
                  Coach: 303RLS Delivered March 5, 2021
                  South of Houston Texas

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                  • #24
                    Getting back to the discussion on why the breaker didn't trip (Sparkys, feel free to correct me): Thermal breakers break when the heat in the conductor gets too high. Really, they do more to protect the electrical system from incoming danger than problems with the system it self since by the time an entire circuit overheats there could already be some damage somewhere along the line. In the case of an arc, there is high heat but in a very concentrated section of the conductor. Damage will occur before the heat travels through the conductor to the breaker.

                    GFCI breakers provide thermal protection and detect minor fluctuations between the two hot legs. They are intended to protect the user of hand held electrical appliances from shock due to a short to ground in the appliance.

                    An AFCI (Arc Fault Current Interrupter) breaker provides thermal protection and also trips if there is a difference between the neutral and either of the legs. They are becoming increasingly popular and may some day be required if they aren't already (been retired for four years now and haven't kept up with NEC). Whether AFCI breakers can be retrofit into our units, I think they could be but don't know for sure. On an AFCI the neutral is connected to the breaker along with one leg of the conductor and then a wire runs from the breaker to common bar. So a little more wire and breakers might be slightly larger size.
                    John
                    2018 Momentum 395M
                    2018 Ram 3500 Dually
                    Every day is a Saturday, but with no lawn to mow.

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                    • #25
                      Whether a breaker of any type opens, has to do with the electric current. Be it high, intermittent or going somewhere that it shouldn't. This situation is deterioration of the wire insulation due to external heat. In theory, the insulation could melt completely away and unless the conductors touched each other or another conductive material, the breaker would never know. Air is also a good insulator. Separating the wiring from the source of heat before the wire insulation deteriorates, is the issue.

                      Rob
                      Cate & Rob
                      (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
                      2015 Reflection 303RLS
                      2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                      Bayham, Ontario, Canada

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                      • #26
                        Want to say an extra BIG THANK YOU to S&M!!
                        I removed the upper baffle to get a good look at the wire in question, and sure enough it was against the piping. The wire outer jacket was burned through and the conductor insulation was burned through..just. Not sure if you will be able to make it out in the reduced res uploaded photos, but you can see a small pin head size hole showing copper in the centre of the burn.
                        There's no doubt in my mind that this had the potential to become a fire. And if the fire started at say 3am when people are asleep?
                        I'll leave it up to the mods to decide but I think GD should be made fully aware of this aspect of the fridge install.
                        Again, thanks S&M! You very possibly saved my trailer or maybe more.
                        Attached Files
                        2018 Dodge 3500 6.7 Cummins w Aisin and 9 cup holders
                        Not to brag or anything about my finances, but my bank calls me about every day to tell me my balance is OUTSTANDING!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Scott'n'Wendy View Post
                          Want to say an extra BIG THANK YOU to S&M!!
                          I removed the upper baffle to get a good look at the wire in question, and sure enough it was against the piping. The wire outer jacket was burned through and the conductor insulation was burned through..just. Not sure if you will be able to make it out in the reduced res uploaded photos, but you can see a small pin head size hole showing copper in the centre of the burn.
                          There's no doubt in my mind that this had the potential to become a fire. And if the fire started at say 3am when people are asleep?
                          I'll leave it up to the mods to decide but I think GD should be made fully aware of this aspect of the fridge install.
                          Again, thanks S&M! You very possibly saved my trailer or maybe more.
                          We are so glad you found it & fixed it!!
                          Another “Save” for Facebook & this forum!

                          GD is 100% aware. They inspected the fire that happened & are repairing that trailer.
                          Also, I told the Regional Service Manager about it over the phone Thurs morning & sent him the FB post.
                          They didn’t even bother to reply to me & instead went home for the weekend.

                          Hope others continue to take this seriously & inspect their trailers. This issue can lead to catastrophic damage, injury & death.
                          So glad GD provides “great service after the sale”! 🤬
                          Sadie & Matt
                          (w/ 2d Mate Toby the traveling tabby)
                          2021 303 RLS
                          2020 Ram 2500 CC 4X4 w/6.7L Cummins
                          Andersen Ultimate Hitch

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            We had a similar issue with our less than a week old 2019 374TH. In our case though it was the 12V feeding the fridge and the lights above the range and in the pantry. In our case there was about 6' of slack in the wire causing it to lay against the chimney which then melted the insulation and shorted the 12v to ground. Mobile tech found it and we were able to make a temporary repair until we were able to fix it permanently.
                            Glad the OP found his issue in time!
                            -
                            Rob, Chris and fur baby Maya
                            2019 Solitude 374TH, Victron Multiplus II 3000 2x120, 600AH of Battle Born LiFePO4, 1800W Solar, Blue Sky CC's, Starlink
                            2023 GMC Denali Duramax 4x4 DRW LB CC, Curt Q25
                            Follow us at https://rctravels.rmcd.ca/

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                            • #29
                              UPDATE #3
                              "Emergency repair" completed yesterday by mobile technician. 3hrs labor, new wire, added gang box, $245. Warranty claim sent to GD.
                              **Tech booked 3 weeks out but after I explained another unit had a fire, he scheduled us at end of his day & was with us until 8pm!**

                              Damaged wire on our unit was wire routed coming off top of wall outlet at the stove. There was too much slack and it was routed improperly so it touched the hot chimney & burned through.
                              --It's a continuous wire that comes up from floor, into outlet, out of outlet then along back wall of fridge, then down wall to the outlet you plug the fridge into.
                              --The cheap staples they use to hold wires into the wall were poorly located and not fully hammered in. I had tech use mounting zip ties with holes for small screws. (Had some from our boat days)

                              Technician cut out bad wire and installed a gang box under the right side floor cabinet at stove. There is a decorative wood cover held in with 2 screws that hides the wires & propane lines.
                              He cut the damaged wire there, installed the box & ran the new wire back to the outlet.

                              Our stove outlet was damaged at factory install so he had to take another outlet (took one from under hutch; we don't use it) to install new wiring and make refrigerator circuit operational.
                              **Boy are those RV outlets cheap...will look into sourcing residential replacements**

                              This is a VERY serious issue and affected units will eventually have a fire so hopefully this post will help other owners inspect their units.

                              I'd recommend, if you are capable and comfortable, remove AC power to fridge circuit and/or entire trailer, then remove the outlet at the right side of the stove to inspect wiring. This is much easier than removing the refrigerator. Our outlet was heavily sealed with the same black sealant used on the propane lines so it took some time to carefully remove but we immediately saw the damaged wire and the excess slack.
                              At a minimum, if the wire wasn't badly damaged, you could cover it with a heat resistant coating, re-insert outlet & sleep better while you wait for a full repair.

                              To repair properly the fridge will likely need to pulled out about 12-16inches, which means disconnecting wiring and propane line, then 8 screws on the front of fridge. This will provide access to re-route the wires and secure them away from the chimney. We had about 2-2.5inches of space between chimney and wall the wires are now secured to.

                              Lastly, it took Grand Design almost 3 business days (split by a weekend) to reply to us and authorize a repair, despite several emails & phone message
                              .
                              To me, on a known issue that already resulted in a fire, this is 100% unacceptable. This could be disastrous and lead to serious injury and death.

                              No amount of COVID or industry saturation, etc, excuses can justify their lack of timely response to a critical safety issue that is known issue to them, especially for a company that prides itself on its reputation and markets itself on "professional, quality service after the sale".

                              While we slept great last night and have returned to "Happy Camping", we worry about others out there who may not know they have a problem.

                              Don't make the mistake we did and wait for GD or wait over concerns of warranty or repair reimbursement. Inspect your trailer as soon as possible and/or turn off refrigerator circuit breaker until you can.

                              Good luck to other affected owners and if anyone has any specific questions or want to discuss, please send me a private message & we can email and/or talk over phone.
                              Attached Files
                              Sadie & Matt
                              (w/ 2d Mate Toby the traveling tabby)
                              2021 303 RLS
                              2020 Ram 2500 CC 4X4 w/6.7L Cummins
                              Andersen Ultimate Hitch

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Thanks for the update and glad this got sorted out. I looked at our fridge last night and took a couple pictures. I do have a wire that seems to be touching in the same manner as yours. I will remove the receptacle to get a better look and if it needs fixin I will pull the fridge.

                                Brian
                                Brian & Michelle
                                2018 Reflection 29RS
                                2022 Chevy 3500HD

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