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IMPORTANT!! 2021 303RLS Refrigerator Wiring Caused FIRE!!!

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  • #31
    Wow! Great information here. Glad people are working this out, and the information is being spread. I checked my 2021 Reflection travel trailer, and my 110AC wiring is completely different from what is shown in your 5th wheel pictures. So at least on my trailer, this does not appear to be an issue.
    Home Base: Fairfax, Virginia
    2021 Grand Design Reflection 315RLTS Travel Trailer
    2002 Ford F350 7.3 Diesel 4X4 SRW

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    • #32
      @S&M_G - Thanks for the very detailed update.

      Jim
      Jim and Ginnie
      2024 Solitude 310GK
      GDRV Technical Forum Moderator
      GDRV Rally Support Coordinator

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      • #33
        I didn't think there was enough slack to get at the burn. I think I'll pull that receptacle and tape up my wire.The insulation is burned, but the wires are likely fine.
        @S&M_G Residential receptacles will likely not work well in most cases in an RV. Residential receptacles need to be installed in an 1104 steel box. That box is deeper than most RV walls are thick.


        2018 Dodge 3500 6.7 Cummins w Aisin and 9 cup holders
        Not to brag or anything about my finances, but my bank calls me about every day to tell me my balance is OUTSTANDING!

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Scott'n'Wendy View Post
          I didn't think there was enough slack to get at the burn. I think I'll pull that receptacle and tape up my wire.The insulation is burned, but the wires are likely fine.
          @S&M_G Residential receptacles will likely not work well in most cases in an RV. Residential receptacles need to be installed in an 1104 steel box. That box is deeper than most RV walls are thick.

          Ours looked the same...until I peeled back the insulation coating, separating the 3 wires and looked at them closely. We had 2 wires damaged with one showing copper.
          Perhaps a heat shield is better than tape, as that boiler flue (chimney) gets very hot & could burn through the tape over time. Just a thought.
          Good luck & thanks for the tip on the outlets!!
          Sadie & Matt
          (w/ 2d Mate Toby the traveling tabby)
          2021 303 RLS
          2020 Ram 2500 CC 4X4 w/6.7L Cummins
          Andersen Ultimate Hitch

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Scott'n'Wendy View Post
            Residential receptacles will likely not work well in most cases in an RV. Residential receptacles need to be installed in an 1104 steel box. That box is deeper than most RV walls are thick.

            Scott - You can also use a shallow PVC box that is only 1-1/4" deep. RV's must meet the requirements of the U.S. National Electrical Code. The attached work box meets these provisions in accordance with article 314 of the code:

            https://amazon.com/Carlon-B108R-UPC-...s%2C217&sr=8-3

            Jim
            Jim and Ginnie
            2024 Solitude 310GK
            GDRV Technical Forum Moderator
            GDRV Rally Support Coordinator

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            • #36
              TucsonJim
              Well, when you see the rv rec's in no box at all, I thought they had special provisions.
              Being in Canada I'm not overly familiar with your code but I believe you can only use that box with a receptacle and only one cable entering. Not an in and an out like most receptacles.
              2018 Dodge 3500 6.7 Cummins w Aisin and 9 cup holders
              Not to brag or anything about my finances, but my bank calls me about every day to tell me my balance is OUTSTANDING!

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              • #37
                I've mirrored, cell phone pictured and tried everything I can come up with and cannot see the power wire anywhere next to the refrigerator. I guess it's whomever was doing the wiring that day.
                Joseph
                Tow
                Vehicle: 2024 GMC K3500 Denali Ultimate Diesel
                Coach: 303RLS Delivered March 5, 2021
                South of Houston Texas

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Scott'n'Wendy View Post
                  TucsonJim
                  Well, when you see the rv rec's in no box at all, I thought they had special provisions.
                  Being in Canada I'm not overly familiar with your code but I believe you can only use that box with a receptacle and only one cable entering. Not an in and an out like most receptacles.
                  Scott - The RV outlets are specially designed to clamp and contain the wires. So they meet code. And with the correct tool, they make assembly very fast, so they are perfect in a manufacturing environment.

                  On the box I linked to, there are two slots for wires so an electrician can run an "in and out" if needed. One on the bottom, and one on the top. Or it's permissible to run two wires into one slot. These shallow boxes are difficult to work with because there's not a lot of room for wires, but they will work if needed in thin RV walls where a standard box won't work. It's also difficult to install a GFI outlet into one because of the depth.

                  Jim
                  Jim and Ginnie
                  2024 Solitude 310GK
                  GDRV Technical Forum Moderator
                  GDRV Rally Support Coordinator

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by TucsonJim View Post

                    On the box I linked to, there are two slots for wires so an electrician can run an "in and out" if needed. One on the bottom, and one on the top.
                    But with a rec in the box, code only allows one cable. If it's a junction, then two cables are allowed.
                    If I read 314 correctly, the box allows three conductors. The outlet counts for two.
                    But as I previously said, I'm a Canadian electrician and may not be reading the USA code table correctly.
                    Last edited by Scott'n'Wendy; 06-19-2021, 05:43 AM.
                    2018 Dodge 3500 6.7 Cummins w Aisin and 9 cup holders
                    Not to brag or anything about my finances, but my bank calls me about every day to tell me my balance is OUTSTANDING!

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by TucsonJim View Post

                      Scott - You can also use a shallow PVC box that is only 1-1/4" deep. RV's must meet the requirements of the U.S. National Electrical Code. The attached work box meets these provisions in accordance with article 314 of the code:

                      https://amazon.com/Carlon-B108R-UPC-...s%2C217&sr=8-3

                      Jim
                      Both HD and Loews carry them as well as most well stocked hardware stores. Just be sure to get the correct new cover plate due to the front lip. There are also shallow duplex outlets that fit theses too. Some folks refer to them as mobile home electrical boxes.

                      Just trying to help
                      Keith
                      2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th whee, Star White 2022 F350 King Ranch CC Long bed (HAL) (CCC 4062lbs), B&W 25K OEM Companion,. SteadyFast system, Trailer reverse lights, rear receiver spare tire holder, storage tube, sumo springs, Victron MultiPlus 12/120/3000, Solar, Custom 6K axles upgrade, and other modifications.

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                      • #41
                        I saw this box mentioned. Carlon B117RSWR
                        https://www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-1...077341#overlay
                        It looks to have enough box fill room for 2 NM 14 cables and a duplex receptacle.
                        https://www.constructionmonkey.com/c...trical/boxfill

                        Electrical Box Spacers / Extenders
                        Smart Fill Spacer - https://www.homedepot.com/s/electric...0spacer?NCNI-5 - DRC Components, LLC
                        ReceptXtender - https://www.homedepot.com/b/Electric...toreSelection=
                        Last edited by gbkims; 06-19-2021, 10:22 AM.
                        Gene and Kim
                        2015 Grand Design Reflection 317RST
                        2017 RAM 3500 CC, LB, 4x2, 6.7L CTD

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by gbkims View Post
                          I saw this box mentioned. Carlon B117RSWR
                          https://www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-1...077341#overlay
                          It looks to have enough box fill room for 2 NM 14 and a duplex recptacle.
                          https://www.constructionmonkey.com/c...trical/boxfill
                          Gene - that is a handy box that I have used. I used to live in No Name, CO. (just east of Glenwood Springs on I-70) Was a mobile home. Walls were very thin so only shallow boxes would work. That one makes it easy to wire things up off to the side when your trying to wire an outlet. Now with the knock out and plastic strain relief inserts they are fairly easy to work with - especially with the old work tabs to snug it up to the paneling. It just tilts in place using the existing outlet hole. As far as I know it meets all codes.
                          Keith
                          2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th whee, Star White 2022 F350 King Ranch CC Long bed (HAL) (CCC 4062lbs), B&W 25K OEM Companion,. SteadyFast system, Trailer reverse lights, rear receiver spare tire holder, storage tube, sumo springs, Victron MultiPlus 12/120/3000, Solar, Custom 6K axles upgrade, and other modifications.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Jimmer View Post
                            Wow! Great information here. Glad people are working this out, and the information is being spread. I checked my 2021 Reflection travel trailer, and my 110AC wiring is completely different from what is shown in your 5th wheel pictures. So at least on my trailer, this does not appear to be an issue.
                            I agree with the great information. We're heading out for a short trip to Wisconsin Sunday, so I brought my unit home today for loading. This thread convinced me to check the wiring on our refer. As Jimmer says, there was no problem with the AC wiring, but the 12 volt wiring was pretty much spaghetti. And sure enough, some of the 12 volt insulation was burned from the hot refer tubing.

                            I zip-tied the mess away from the burner flows and installed a heat shield in one place, so I should be fine now. But boy am I PO'ed that the RV industry is allowed to get away with selling a product so sloppily built that it results in safety hazards.So hard to believe and understand

                            -Steve
                            2018 Solitude 310GK, disc brakes
                            Morryde SRE4000/XFactor with heavy duty shackles, V-Brackets in spring hangers
                            2012 Ram 3500 SRW 6.7 Diesel, air bags
                            18k B&W Companion, non-slider
                            640 watts solar, 400 amp-hour Lion Safari UT 1300 battery bank
                            Aims 1500 watt inverter/charger with ATS
                            Somerset, WI

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by steve&renee View Post

                              . . . the RV industry is allowed to get away with selling a product so sloppily built that it results in safety hazards.So hard to believe and understand

                              -Steve
                              The towable RV Industry is "self governing". They build to RVIA (Recreational Vehicle Industry Association) "requirements". We even get to pay an additional fee at time of purchase for this RVIA "inspection and certification" label. They claim to build to residential electrical, plumbing and HVAC standards . . . but, the tangle of wiring, pipes and ductwork in every trailer would say otherwise.

                              If you try to dig into what these RVIA requirements actually are, you quickly come up against a "members only" firewall. Those "members" of course, being the RV manufacturers.

                              Motorhome RVs are different. They must meet requirements set by MVMA (Motor Vehicle Manufacturer's Association) and NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration). An entirely different world where requirements are not set or inspected by the manufacturers themselves. There is likely a reason that motorhomes are so much more expensive than towable RVs.

                              Rob
                              Cate & Rob
                              (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
                              2015 Reflection 303RLS
                              2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                              Bayham, Ontario, Canada

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                              • #45
                                Hi. Glad I found this forum. First post. Complete newbie and have owned a TT just over a month. My question is if somebody can confirm that this particular safety issue only applies *IF* you have a dual power fridge i.e. one that runs on both 12v and propane? And it's the propane part (exhaust pipe) that's causing the issue? If that's the case, that might be good to add to the original post for newbies.
                                2021 Grand Design Transcend xplor 261BH TT

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