Parasitic Drain?

[bellis]

See the attached image. This month we went on a non-camping vacation and the camper sat for a few weeks. I had the master battery switch off, but per recommendations from AMSolar and others I do have my temperature monitor (for shunt) directly to a battery terminal. This supposedly uses 8 AH per YEAR.

My wiring is pretty straightforward. The only thing other than the temp sensor in front of the master battery switch is a fuse. I am at a loss as to how my battery SOC could drop so much. Is this a configuration issue? A setting I need to change for proper reporting?

The downward sloping line is while it is off....note zero consumption and zero production.

[Cate&Rob]

Many owners have reported that a basic system with no solar will kill a single 12V lead/acid battery in a week with the "Battery Switch" in the off position. I have not seen a measurement of this in AH but the parasitic draw of clocks, sensors, device memories, etc that bypass the main switch is obviously significant.

Rob

[bellis]

Many owners have reported that a basic system with no solar will kill a single 12V lead/acid battery in a week with the "Battery Switch" in the off position. I have not seen a measurement of this in AH but the parasitic draw of clocks, sensors, device memories, etc that bypass the main switch is obviously significant.

Rob

That's just it though....I moved the batteries and the wiring is easy to trace (it's mine...I put it in)....there is nothing else in front of the master battery switch. After the master battery switch, I go over to the OEM switch so that I have an additional switch and can power on or off the camper based on that switch).

For example....I left everything on, Cerbo GX, MPPT+Solar, Charging a mifi so I can see in VRM....but left OEM switch off. In the last 24 hours (pulling slide out, lights as well as the previously mentioned that are currently on) it has used .2KWh. Most of that has been offset by lack luster solar (cloudy and rainy and night for most of the last 24 hours).

So, with a little us working usage at the beginning of the chart....then you get into the night and you can see the Cerbo GX, MPPT, and hotspot are using 0.01 KWh on each of the red lines in the table. At that rate it should last a year! Let alone when the master battery switch is off and now NOTHING is plugged in except shunt. How do I know? I am not using factory wiring for this....its very easy to see.

[howson]

bellis

Please refresh my memory on your configuration. A schematic showing the components and wiring will help to decipher what's going on.

[Country Campers]

bellis

If your emergency break away is in front of the switch , direct from the battery , I believe this has a parasitic draw. I have not checked this but I had my battery wired so the only thing that had power was the break away and my battery would lose power in about 10 days. I have since moved to total battery disconnect and have not had the issue as bad. The original deep cycle battery that I received with my camper is a cheap one.

Brian

[bellis]

bellis

Please refresh my memory on your configuration. A schematic showing the components and wiring will help to decipher what's going on.

Posting below.

bellis

If your emergency break away is in front of the switch , direct from the battery , I believe this has a parasitic draw. I have not checked this but I had my battery wired so the only thing that had power was the break away and my battery would lose power in about 10 days. I have since moved to total battery disconnect and have not had the issue as bad. The original deep cycle battery that I received with my camper is a cheap one.

Brian

It is not. Per Howson's suggestion - will post diagram below.

----------

As you both can see - nothing other than shunt's temperature monitor and the fuse is behind the master battery switch.

Imagine2400BH-Wiring_Diagram_V6.pdf

[howson]

bellis

First--why disconnect the SmarSolar from the batteries when the camper is in storage? The #1 job of solar is to keep the batteries charged. The tiny amount of power consumed by the camper during storage should easily be supported by the solar array's recharging of the battery bank--assuming the array has access to the sun while in storage.

When the Battery Switch is OFF, is the PV input from the solar array also turned off? (I use a Blue Sea switch to isolate the panels.) The OP didn't specify. If not that's a bad practice to turn off battery power without isolating PV. (PV off first, then battery to SmartSolar. Then battery power to SmartSolar, then turn PV back on are the right sequences.)

I can't fully defend this, but I'll write it anyway: my suggestion is to move the battery positive from the SmartSolar to the battery side of the Baomain ANL-400A Fuse. This way when the Battery Switch is off the Battle Borns can still get a charge input from the SmartSolar controller to keep the batteries charged. The DC Breakers can always turn off the controller if that is the goal. This change will then have your system nearly mirror mine which works (to my knowledge) perfectly.

If I'm right the issue is not really a drop in the SOC but a confused SmartShunt due to the SmartSolar wiring.

A way to test my guess without any changes is to charge the system to 100% and then not only turn off the Battery Switch but also turn off the PV and battery input to the SmartSolar. After a week turn on just the Battery Switch and note the reported SOC.

If it's a configuration issue, the only way we'll be able to identify is if you capture each component's configuration (and each screen for each component) and post the pictures. Myself and several others with similar systems can then compare settings.

Side note/question: Did you really use 2/0 for the battery cables to the SmartSolar? I used 2ga for the same controller--wasn't aware it would accept 2/0 (that's big!).

[bellis]

bellis

First--why disconnect the SmarSolar from the batteries when the camper is in storage? The #1 job of solar is to keep the batteries charged. The tiny amount of power consumed by the camper during storage should easily be supported by the solar array's recharging of the battery bank--assuming the array has access to the sun while in storage.

When the Battery Switch is OFF, is the PV input from the solar array also turned off? (I use a Blue Sea switch to isolate the panels.) The OP didn't specify. If not that's a bad practice to turn off battery power without isolating PV. (PV off first, then battery to SmartSolar. Then battery power to SmartSolar, then turn PV back on are the right sequences.)

I can't fully defend this, but I'll write it anyway: my suggestion is to move the battery positive from the SmartSolar to the battery side of the Baomain ANL-400A Fuse. This way when the Battery Switch is off the Battle Borns can still get a charge input from the SmartSolar controller to keep the batteries charged. The DC Breakers can always turn off the controller if that is the goal. This change will then have your system nearly mirror mine which works (to my knowledge) perfectly.

I thought about taking the MPPT directly by the master battery switch....but then I decided I wanted my master battery switch to truly be a master switch. Now, what I do not have diagramed here is the details of the OEM switch. So, when I turn the master battery switch on the following items have access to power as currently wired: Multiplus (which has it's own switch), MPPT (which has a breaker), Cerbo GX (which I want on if Solar or other things are on), and the front part of the trailer IE jack, jack light, and emergency brake. The reason for this is on the OEM battery switch, I have the distribution bar from the master battery switch wired to the side that has the front of the rig on the same side of the switch. IE Master battery switch on; jack and ebrake on; but, to get power to the rest of the rig (the 12V fuse/distribution panel) the OEM switch has to be turned on.

So, I guess my thoughts in summary are this....I can turn my master battery switch on, the MPPT, and solar (in that order), leave Multiplus off, leave OEM switch off and only my solar and Cerbo GX will be running. There will be some parasitic drain to the tongue jack and ebrake....but I think with solar on that is probably negligible. If I bypassed the master switch for the MPPT; I would want to do that for the Cerbo as well....

bellis

If I'm right the issue is not really a drop in the SOC but a confused SmartShunt due to the SmartSolar wiring.

A way to test my guess without any changes is to charge the system to 100% and then not only turn off the Battery Switch but also turn off the PV and battery input to the SmartSolar. After a week turn on just the Battery Switch and note the reported SOC.

If it's a configuration issue, the only way we'll be able to identify is if you capture each component's configuration (and each screen for each component) and post the pictures. Myself and several others with similar systems can then compare settings.

Side note/question: Did you really use 2/0 for the battery cables to the SmartSolar? I used 2ga for the same controller--wasn't aware it would accept 2/0 (that's big!).

I think you are right about the configuration. I am wondering if my SOC (reported SOC) is just confused. But, I am not sure this is due to the MPPT? Maybe some other setting? I don't see how my batteries would drop 30-45% charge on a 3 battery bank over 3 weeks with the master battery switch off. Shoot, even if I left it on and the OEM switch off I would have trouble imaging it would drain that far....but maybe. The only active draw would be the Cerbo GX in that case.....so 10 watts? I would have to do the math...

This is further evidenced by my lackluster solar input over the past 3 days. Granted it has been cloudy and rainy; but I have not seen solar input exceed 10W over the past 3 days via VRM real-time updates. The MPPT is also in float.....so could these be indicators of a configuration issue and a falsely reported SOC?

I may take you up on your suggestion to post screenshots of configuration. That may be the ticket.....I am guessing my SOC is higher than what is reported.

Side Note: I did have 2/0 crammed into the MPPT....but then that would not fit into the breaker....so I dropped it to 2AWG. I guess I need to update diagram.

Big Summary - I am thinking my issue may be a configuration one or something or a confused system - false SOC reported.

[bellis]

Looked over my settings tonight. All appeared within Battleborn's ranges. I tweaked some slightly. Here are the screenshots.




SOC showed ~47% tonight as I was playing with settings - so I hooked up the generator and turned the Multiplus to charge only....you can see the meteoric rise of SOC in VRM. Here is the thing....the generator did not charge basically at all. It went straight to absorption and little to no watts were coming in...definitely not a significant charge. SOC during this time stayed the same and then a few minutes later it skyrocketed to 100%. See screenshot.

[bellis]

In one of the screenshots you will note, I do not have the "VE.Smart Networking" enabled. I never set this up....I figured the Cerbo would take care of me....but is this the issue? Do I need to do so, so the Shunt and the MPPT can communicate directly?

[howson]

In one of the screenshots you will note, I do not have the "VE.Smart Networking" enabled. I never set this up....I figured the Cerbo would take care of me....but is this the issue? Do I need to do so, so the Shunt and the MPPT can communicate directly?

No. VE.Smart Networking is used for Victron components to communicate with each other IF there's no GX device in the system. Your devices "talk" via VE.Direct.

From a Victron document:

VE.Smart Networking is designed for small systems which do not have a GX device - such as a Color Control GX or Venus GX. In systems which have a GX device, do not use VE.Smart Networking - See FAQ 6.

[howson]

Looked over my settings tonight. All appeared within Battleborn's ranges. I tweaked some slightly. Here are the screenshots.

From the BMV's manual (should be the same for the SmartShunt)



Below are the differences between our Battery settings. I suspect the Charge detection time is the issue, but I leave any decision to make changes up to you.

[howson]

bellis

Differences in our SmartSolar settings:

[howson]

bellis

You'll have to hook up to it, but if you want post pics of your Multiplus' configuration, too, and I'll do a similar comparison.

Howard

P.S. bertschb, ncitro or anyone else... if you spot something I missed or a settings that looks amiss, chime in...

[howson]

bellis

To make sure we're comparing apples-to-apples, these are the firmware versions in my system: