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2022 Momentum 21G Solar inverter circuit info

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  • 2022 Momentum 21G Solar inverter circuit info

    A short while ago I posted an inquiry about what and where the solar components for my TT were supposed to be. Based on the great information collected in that thread I was able to unravel several things and complete a solar installation.

    This post is a consolidation (and maybe even some corrections) for others who might find themselves in a similar boat(uhhh...RV).


    Listed Part Numbers are Grand Design's SKUs. Use the Parts Lookup feature of the Grand Design website to see pictures/more. OEM part numbers listed where possible.

    AS BUILT(Solar) - my 21G
    SOLAR PANEL 175W W/MOUNTING FEET AND MC4 CONNECTORS, 420749 (Roof)
    SOLAR DOCKING PORT W/O CONNECTORS, 420577 (Roof)
    SOLAR CHARGE CONTROLLER 30AMP MPPT, 420788 (behind closeout panel, outside storage)
    BLUE TOOTH MODULE, 420789 (behind closeout panel, outside storage)
    SUB PANEL SIEMEN E0204ML1060S 2-4 POSITION BOX 60A SURFACE, 4600020 (next to WFCO power center)
    ...wiring from the panels to the charge controller existed
    ...pre-wiring for an inverter in the form of a Blue and a Black romex run joined with a Molex connection
    ...the Sub Panel has a 15 Amp breaker labeled "Main" and another 15 amp labeled "Kit/Bed/TV"
    ...the WFCO power center has a 15 amp breaker labeled "Inverter"
    I use the Apple AppStore app named "Solar" to connect to and control the charge controller (There is a Renogy branded identical app that works, too). Admin password is 135790123


    ITEMS ADDED TO COMPLETE
    SWITCH TRANSFER 15A 24" HARDWIRED W/MOLEX, 420585
    - Magnum Dimension CSW-TS20-HM24 (Note: Suffix indicates source/load connection type, I believe. Canb be Molex or screw terminals)
    SWITCH REMOTE W/ FEMALE RJ12 PORT & IGNITION START CONNECTOR, 420558
    - Magnum Dimension CSW-RS
    INVERTER 1000 WATT 12V W/TRANSFER SWITCH, 430073 (does not include transfer switch)
    - Magnum Dimensions CSW1012
    12V inline circuit breaker, 100amp - eBay (is both resettable and acts as a battery disconnect)
    ..Inverter was mounted to the floor, as far forward as it would fit with some room for air flow.
    ..the Inverter remote start and resettable circuit breaker were mounted on the wall above/right of the access panel in the forward/outside storage compartment.
    ..I used 4 AWG 'welding cable' in red and black for the battery connection. There is an existing hole in the install location area that goes to the outside belly of the trailer, very close the battery. Probably could/should have been larger gauge cable.
    ..8 AWG ground went through the same hole as battery cables and picked up an existing ground on the chassis about 1' from the inverter itself.
    ..proper sized lugs(wire gauge and hole size) were added as needed. The lugs that come with a solder/flux pellet(eBay) work great and look good with marine heat shrink.
    ..the transfer switch was mounted on the vertical wall next to the charge controller. After separating the existing pre-wired Molex the Blue was attached to "Source", Black was attached to "Load". Power cord from the transfer switch was connected to the GFCI outlet on the inverter.


    120V CIRCUITS
    There is still some haze in my mind about what's going on where and I haven't finished sluething it all out. These circuit confirmations were done while disconnected from shore power(and battery disconnect switch disconnected)

    These Circuits are "hot" when running on inverter
    TV - outlet below convenience center
    Galley - outlet to left of kitchen sink
    Left Bedroom - When standing inside, looking forware
    These circuits are "off" when running on inverter
    Fridge
    Microwave
    Right Bedroom
    Bathroom Vanity
    Slide out (is extension of GFCI from Bathroom Vanity)
    When connected to shore power all 120v circuits are active and it appears that the transfer switch gives precedence to shore power over inverter power when both are present.

    CIRCUIT BREAKERS
    This part is the most hazy...
    Sub Panel, "Main" - kills TV, Galley, Left Bedroom as would be expected
    Sub Panel, "Kit/Bed/TV" - kills TV, Galley, Left Bedroom - but is this redundant?
    Main Panel, "Inverter" - does not kill TV, Galley, Left Bedroom so I dunno what it's purpose is yet.

    FINAL CONCLUSION
    This all started because I initially couldn't figure out why I had a solar panel on the roof(but was glad) when I didn't buy the Solar package and wanted to know what else and where the other solar parts were. Once the missing pieces were identified it became a challenge to acquire and install them and ultimately finish a solar install.

    As long as we don't do all of it at the same time this setup looks like it would let us watch TV while boon docking(except we won't be able to catch any channels), my wife can curl her hair(except she doesn't do that), or use a coffee maker(except we prefer percolated).

    ...but it was really only about the journey and gathering of knowledge anyway, right?
    Rich and Kathy
    2022 Momentum 21G
    Camping, boondocking and Vintage Moto-X in the Rocky Mountains

  • #2
    Rich

    You sure have had a journey with the purchase of the 21G. Gathering all of this info and posting will surely help others who may find themselves in the same situation. It is sad that you had to go thru all of this but probably good in a way that you will know exactly what you have and how it works.
    Thanks for posting.

    Brian
    Brian & Michelle
    2018 Reflection 29RS
    2022 Chevy 3500HD

    Comment


    • #3
      rvoelker is it possible that the original solar panel was there because of a 12 volt refrigerator? As in, included with that feature?
      Dave and Darren Bakersfield, CA
      2019 GMC Denali dually 4x4 duramax, BW puck hitch, timbrens
      2015 Chevrolet 3500 CC duramax SB SRW (much loved; replaced with dually)
      2021 Solitude 390 RK-R (3 A/C, solar, gen, 8K axles DP glass), comfort ride shocks, VIN 03584
      Max and Riley, our chihuahua/jack russell furbabies

      Comment


      • #4
        It is my understanding that the g-class travel trailers come standard with the 175w solar panel and 30a controller with inverter prep all included for $0

        The 300w solar package is the optional one that includes a 1000w inverter for $1,262

        Comment


        • #5
          DarnDave - I reckon it probably is a contributing factor. From what I understand in previous models the fridge was a three way (had propane) and this was maybe a way to support boon docking a bit better?

          Damikester892 - having worked my situation a full 360deg it makes what you say most likely the case. In the beginning, though, neither the dealer nor GD could actually confirm what I had, where it all was, nor why I had it. Ultimately I got it all sorted out. Added the 1K inverter/necessary bits and a 2nd battery. I'm carrying more re-chargeable energy than I was and have an option for 120Vac in the field - and that's a good thing.
          Rich and Kathy
          2022 Momentum 21G
          Camping, boondocking and Vintage Moto-X in the Rocky Mountains

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by rvoelker View Post
            DarnDave - I reckon it probably is a contributing factor. From what I understand in previous models the fridge was a three way (had propane) and this was maybe a way to support boon docking a bit better?

            Damikester892 - having worked my situation a full 360deg it makes what you say most likely the case. In the beginning, though, neither the dealer nor GD could actually confirm what I had, where it all was, nor why I had it. Ultimately I got it all sorted out. Added the 1K inverter/necessary bits and a 2nd battery. I'm carrying more re-chargeable energy than I was and have an option for 120Vac in the field - and that's a good thing.
            Oh yeah definitely a good thing! I'm currently ordering one as well and just wanted to let you know that what yours came with is normal and I think it's awesome they do that on these rigs standard đź‘Ťđź‘Ť

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi Rich,
              I have a 2021 25G and while my trailer is pre wired for solar it didn't come with. I want to add two panels, controller, and an inverter. Do you have the wiring diagram for what you did? Pics would help immensely . i certainly appreciate any help.

              Comment


              • #8
                This is less of a schematic than it is a pictorial diagram of interconnects. There are other schematics around the site that should also be helpful.
                I believe the 25G may have a passthrough "basement" so the physical locations of your pre-wiring may be different. Everything I needed was already in the equipment bay except the battery/supply wiring.
                Keep the length of the battery/supply side to the inverter as short as possible.
                I used slightly smaller AWG for the battery supply than listed in my pictorial, and a 100AMP resettable fuse.
                The 175 Watt Panel and 1K inverter are probably on the small side for practical use. I'd aim for a 300Watt and maybe a 2K inverter if you intend to use 120Vac often or with heavier loads. Lots of talk about other setups on the site here.

                Hope this helps!


                Attached Files
                Rich and Kathy
                2022 Momentum 21G
                Camping, boondocking and Vintage Moto-X in the Rocky Mountains

                Comment


                • #9
                  Rich- I'd like to thank you for sharing what you've learned, I really appreciate it. I recently purchased a 2021 21g and noticed the solar panel on top which led me to the internet to learn all about it and here I am.

                  I'm slowly wrapping my head around all of this to make for a better boon docking setup (batteries, solar) without running the generator as much . As it warms up (I'm in Boise, ID) this will be another project for me.

                  Thanks again!
                  -Brent

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Welcome, and glad it helped. Feel free to ask any questions that may come up and I'll do the best I can to help and many others that helped me are likely to chime in as well...
                    Rich and Kathy
                    2022 Momentum 21G
                    Camping, boondocking and Vintage Moto-X in the Rocky Mountains

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Here are some other data points for the discussion, I just bought a 23G that came with the 300W solar package. All the breakers and sub panel are as @rvoelker described. There was some confusion at the dealer because they put down the trailer having a 2K inverter on the sales sheet that I signed. When I removed the panel on the outside storage area I saw that a 1K inverter was installed. The GD website says the G series comes with a 1K inverter, but when I emailed GD they said the 300W panel kit comes with a 2K Inverter. As you can see there was confusion all around, but since my purchase sheet said the trailer came with a 2K inverter I held firm that I wanted a 2K Inverter, so the dealer agreed to send me one (still waiting on that). I added 200Ah of lithium battery storage so the 2K inverter would be nice to have to maximize the power available on that 15amp circuit.

                      The 300W package also appears to come with the 12V fridge (mine did). If anyone plans on boondocking with this setup additional battery storage is a must. My first trip out will be Presidents Weekend, but I've been testing everting out at home unplugged and the solar recharges the batteries fully everyday with the fridge off. With the fridge on I was losing 10 to 20 Ah a day without plugging in at this time of year with the sun further south.

                      One last thing, @rvoelker I believe Main Panel Inverter breaker will kill power to the Kit/Bed/TV circuit when on shore power with the inverter either off or the subpanel inverters off. I think this is what I was able to figure out when testing all the breakers when connected to power.
                      Dan M.
                      2022 Momentum 23G
                      2019 F250 6.7L

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by 74barrio View Post
                        Here are some other data points for the discussion, I just bought a 23G that came with the 300W solar package. All the breakers and sub panel are as @rvoelker described. There was some confusion at the dealer because they put down the trailer having a 2K inverter on the sales sheet that I signed. When I removed the panel on the outside storage area I saw that a 1K inverter was installed. The GD website says the G series comes with a 1K inverter, but when I emailed GD they said the 300W panel kit comes with a 2K Inverter. As you can see there was confusion all around, but since my purchase sheet said the trailer came with a 2K inverter I held firm that I wanted a 2K Inverter, so the dealer agreed to send me one (still waiting on that). I added 200Ah of lithium battery storage so the 2K inverter would be nice to have to maximize the power available on that 15amp circuit.

                        The 300W package also appears to come with the 12V fridge (mine did). If anyone plans on boondocking with this setup additional battery storage is a must. My first trip out will be Presidents Weekend, but I've been testing everting out at home unplugged and the solar recharges the batteries fully everyday with the fridge off. With the fridge on I was losing 10 to 20 Ah a day without plugging in at this time of year with the sun further south.

                        One last thing, @rvoelker I believe Main Panel Inverter breaker will kill power to the Kit/Bed/TV circuit when on shore power with the inverter either off or the subpanel inverters off. I think this is what I was able to figure out when testing all the breakers when connected to power.
                        Hi Dan. I have a 2021 21G with solar package. It came with a 1000W inverter. The inverted circuits are very limited. Look at your subpanel and it will tell you which outlets are inverted. If you keep the one inverted circuit (should be 3 outlets), the 2000W inverter may be a mute point.

                        Also, you should have a transfer switch connected to the inverter. This transfer switch allows shore power to flow to the inverted circuit so you will have power to all AC circuits (including inverted circuit) when on shore power. If you do not have a transfer switch, you need to have GD send you one.

                        I also have a 12v fridge and completely agree with you. Boondocking will require a larger battery bank than one 100ah AGM battery.
                        Allen

                        2021 Momentum 21G

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thanks acoleman43 . I checked out the subpanel on my trailer (the one next to the Main Panel) and verified all the outlets it powered. The 1000W inverter is limited to about 8.33amps. The inverter subpanel is 15amps, which is why I would like to install a 2000W inverter that is capable of providing up to 16.67amps. The 2000W inverter might be slight overkill, but its better for my purposes since it can provide the 15amps that circuit is rated for and I have two 100Ah lithium batteries that can supply that amperage.

                          Is the transfer switch the same as the subpanel? I misspoke in the previous post when I said the "Main Panel Inverter breaker will kill power to the Kit/Bed/TV circuit when on shore power with the inverter either off or the subpanel inverters off." That is not the case. The Kit/Bed/TV outlets are completely controlled by that subpanel next to the Main panel...so flipping the Inverter breaker off on the Main Panel appears to do nothing to those outlets.
                          Dan M.
                          2022 Momentum 23G
                          2019 F250 6.7L

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 74barrio View Post
                            Thanks acoleman43 . I checked out the subpanel on my trailer (the one next to the Main Panel) and verified all the outlets it powered. The 1000W inverter is limited to about 8.33amps. The inverter subpanel is 15amps, which is why I would like to install a 2000W inverter that is capable of providing up to 16.67amps. The 2000W inverter might be slight overkill, but its better for my purposes since it can provide the 15amps that circuit is rated for and I have two 100Ah lithium batteries that can supply that amperage.

                            Is the transfer switch the same as the subpanel? I misspoke in the previous post when I said the "Main Panel Inverter breaker will kill power to the Kit/Bed/TV circuit when on shore power with the inverter either off or the subpanel inverters off." That is not the case. The Kit/Bed/TV outlets are completely controlled by that subpanel next to the Main panel...so flipping the Inverter breaker off on the Main Panel appears to do nothing to those outlets.
                            Well, the 2000W inverter won't hurt - and free of charge makes it a no-brainer.

                            For transfer switch, see picture. The transfer switch should be between the main panel and sub panel. If it gets power from AC In, it will bypass inverter and power thee sub panel through the AC Out. If it does not get power from AC In, but is getting power from the inverter, it will pass the inverter power into the AC Out.

                            The switch protects your inverter from the AC main panel and allows the sub panel to be powered whether you are plugged into shore power on not.

                            Click image for larger version

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                            Allen

                            2021 Momentum 21G

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thanks for the schematic acoleman43 . I think I remember seeing something that looked list the transfer switch behind the panel in the front storage area where the inverter is. The new inverter is at the dealership now so when I get it delivered I'll open up that panel to install it and see what is back there.
                              Dan M.
                              2022 Momentum 23G
                              2019 F250 6.7L

                              Comment

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