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  • #16
    Originally posted by ncitro View Post

    Joseph is right, I keep my factory one turned off (I just lol the breaker) so I have it there if I ever need it.

    Combo units use the same wiring for the inverter and charger, just in reverse, so it eases your wiring a bit, but does add some cost. The nice thing is the chargers are usually programmable, allowing you to tweak the profile to match your battery chemistry (lead acid vs lithium for instance), and they tend to be very high output (the Victron I have is 125 amps, higher than any converter I could find).
    Jlawles2 ncitro

    Sounds pretty useful, so it would look something like this in my situation?

    -Install 4x 100ah Lithium batteries
    -Upgrading wire gauge from battery
    -Install fuse/breaker and a battery cut off on the line coming from batteries
    -Swap out inverter to a Inverter/charger unit
    -Upgrade wire gauge going from inverter/charger to subpanel
    -Turn off stock converter breaker switch on main panel

    Seems straight forward I'm just wondering does the generator/shore power supply the Subpanel in order to activate the charging mode of the inverter and power everything on the Subpanel that the inverter usually handles?
    By my understanding the Victron wouldn't be connected to the main panel so it wouldn't receive power to charge otherwise. Or would I just run another line from the main panel on a breaker to the Victron for its charging function?


    ​​​​​​​@

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    • #17
      Just a couple notes

      Not all Magnum and Victron inverters are inverter/chargers. If you plan to get a combo unit, make sure you know what you're getting. Both Victron and Magnum are premium units at a premium price. Both require setting up the inverter/charger to work with your system. You should do a lot of planning and reading to make sure you set it up properly.

      Before wiring the new inverter, you should know your intended use for the unit. What you use it for will determine how you wire it.

      The inverter will be connected to AC power and the batteries. It will charge the batteries based on how you set the inverter/charger up.

      Also, some of your setup will be determined by your batteries. All components need to work together.

      A lot of planning and research will really pay off.
      Allen

      2021 Momentum 21G

      Comment


      • #18
        acoleman43


        I am looking at this inverter/charger:
        https://www.amazon.com/Victron-12-20...POWER_INVERTER

        Which from my understanding will require this adapter:
        https://www.amazon.com/Victron-MK3-U...6Y5WS3VZ&psc=1

        In order change the settings to go along with 4x of these batteries:
        https://battlebornbatteries.com/product/12v-lifepo4-deep-cycle-battery/

        ^^ Along with correct wire gauge for output/length, fuses, and disconnects.

        I mostly understand the equipment, I was just referring to tying in to the stock systems main panel and sub panel setup, and having the inverter/charger work as intended. Since from what I gather, the stock setup is a separate charger running off of the main panel to charge the batteries when on generator/shore, and a separate inverter powering a subpanel when not on generator/shore.

        Does the main panel just have a breaker/line going to the subpanel to power it when on generator/shore, and thus that would activate the Victron's charging function and turn off inverter power?

        Just trying to understand that part.

        Thank you!

        Comment


        • #19
          Damikester892

          The subpanel contains the electrical lines that will have inverted AC power. The subpanel is connected to the inverter (through the automatic transfer switch). Anything connected to the subpanel will be able to run off the inverter. Anything not connected to the subpanel will NOT be able to run off the inverter.

          In other words anything connected to the subpanel is NOT connected to the main panel. If you are on shore/generator power, The subpanel will NOT have any power unless an automatic transfer switch is installed. This switch allows AC power to flow to the subpanel (through the inactive inverter...basically bypassing through the inverter) when shore/generator power is present. When shore/generator power is NOT present, the switch will allow the inverter to provide inverted AC power to the subpanel ONLY, not the main panel.

          The stock system is setup with a main AC panel, an AC subpanel, the inverter and an automatic transfer switch. There is only one circuit connected to the subpanel. In my 21G that circuit powers 3 outlets, one in the master bed, one in the bathroom and one in the kitchen area. Those are the only AC electrical components that the inverter supplies power. There is a 15a breaker in the main AC panel for the inverter (technically to the transfer switch which is rated at 15a) to protect the inverter. A 2000W inverter at 120v is just over the 15a....so the transfer switch will not work with this setup.

          If you replace the stock 1000W inverter with a 2000W inverter, you can do a direct replacement, but that would defeat the whole purpose of doubling your useable inverter power because it would still only provide inverted power to the 3 outlets in the subpanel...and can supply too much power to the transfer switch.

          In order to take advantage of 200W of inverted power, you would have to do some rewiring. You could move the electrical components you want (more outlets, microwave, etc) running on the inverter from the main AC panel to the AC subpanel. You would need to make sure the subpanel is able to have more breakers installed.

          The inverter/charger you are looking at has a built-in transfer switch so you will be able to remove the stock transfer switch. It also has some cool features like power assist. But you would have to do some rewiring.

          Battle Born batteries are top notch. You can't go wrong with them. Pay attention to max discharge rate for wire sizing, optimal charge rate for setting up charging.


          A couple things I was thinking:

          -If you're spending $1100+ on the inverter, why not go with the Victron 3000VA multiplus for an extra $135? You can get them for $1284.35 on Amazon and eBay. Look at the Multiplus 12/3000/120. If you had this multiplus, you could just connect the inverter to the main AC line before it gets to the main AC panel. You would have all AC electrics in the entire trailer connected to inverted power. You can then remove the subpanel, place the bed/kit/bath breaker in the main panel. No need for a subpanel and all AC components are able to run on inverted power - including AC (for an hour or two...lol). If you did this I would install an automatic transfer switch between shore power and the generator (120V, 30a version made to use with a generator).

          -I think Grand Designs uses 2000W inverters in some of their models. Perhaps you can order the 25G with a 2000W inverter and bypass the installation and rewiring???

          Allen

          2021 Momentum 21G

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by acoleman43 View Post
            Damikester892

            The subpanel contains the electrical lines that will have inverted AC power. The subpanel is connected to the inverter (through the automatic transfer switch). Anything connected to the subpanel will be able to run off the inverter. Anything not connected to the subpanel will NOT be able to run off the inverter.

            In other words anything connected to the subpanel is NOT connected to the main panel. If you are on shore/generator power, The subpanel will NOT have any power unless an automatic transfer switch is installed. This switch allows AC power to flow to the subpanel (through the inactive inverter...basically bypassing through the inverter) when shore/generator power is present. When shore/generator power is NOT present, the switch will allow the inverter to provide inverted AC power to the subpanel ONLY, not the main panel.

            The stock system is setup with a main AC panel, an AC subpanel, the inverter and an automatic transfer switch. There is only one circuit connected to the subpanel. In my 21G that circuit powers 3 outlets, one in the master bed, one in the bathroom and one in the kitchen area. Those are the only AC electrical components that the inverter supplies power. There is a 15a breaker in the main AC panel for the inverter (technically to the transfer switch which is rated at 15a) to protect the inverter. A 2000W inverter at 120v is just over the 15a....so the transfer switch will not work with this setup.

            If you replace the stock 1000W inverter with a 2000W inverter, you can do a direct replacement, but that would defeat the whole purpose of doubling your useable inverter power because it would still only provide inverted power to the 3 outlets in the subpanel...and can supply too much power to the transfer switch.

            In order to take advantage of 200W of inverted power, you would have to do some rewiring. You could move the electrical components you want (more outlets, microwave, etc) running on the inverter from the main AC panel to the AC subpanel. You would need to make sure the subpanel is able to have more breakers installed.

            The inverter/charger you are looking at has a built-in transfer switch so you will be able to remove the stock transfer switch. It also has some cool features like power assist. But you would have to do some rewiring.

            Battle Born batteries are top notch. You can't go wrong with them. Pay attention to max discharge rate for wire sizing, optimal charge rate for setting up charging.


            A couple things I was thinking:

            -If you're spending $1100+ on the inverter, why not go with the Victron 3000VA multiplus for an extra $135? You can get them for $1284.35 on Amazon and eBay. Look at the Multiplus 12/3000/120. If you had this multiplus, you could just connect the inverter to the main AC line before it gets to the main AC panel. You would have all AC electrics in the entire trailer connected to inverted power. You can then remove the subpanel, place the bed/kit/bath breaker in the main panel. No need for a subpanel and all AC components are able to run on inverted power - including AC (for an hour or two...lol). If you did this I would install an automatic transfer switch between shore power and the generator (120V, 30a version made to use with a generator).

            -I think Grand Designs uses 2000W inverters in some of their models. Perhaps you can order the 25G with a 2000W inverter and bypass the installation and rewiring???
            That makes perfect sense!

            I will try to see if the dealer can get GD to build it with a 2000w (it's not an option on the build sheet) and let you all know just for informational reasons for the next person reading this in my shoes.

            If not then what you described about going 3000w and just getting rid of the subpanel makes the most sense to me.

            Thank you, again!

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Damikester892 View Post

              That makes perfect sense!

              I will try to see if the dealer can get GD to build it with a 2000w (it's not an option on the build sheet) and let you all know just for informational reasons for the next person reading this in my shoes.

              If not then what you described about going 3000w and just getting rid of the subpanel makes the most sense to me.

              Thank you, again!

              Keep in mind with Victron it’s VA not watts. Technical difference there you do not want to overlook when planning. That was going to be my suggestion, eliminate the sub panel all together. That's how my system operates and it's great. All my outlets and devices have power when the inverter is on, I don't need to go hunting for an inverter outlet.


              Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

              Neil Citro
              2018 Reflection 28BH Pepwave
              2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by ncitro View Post


                Keep in mind with Victron it’s VA not watts. Technical difference there you do not want to overlook when planning. That was going to be my suggestion, eliminate the sub panel all together. That's how my system operates and it's great. All my outlets and devices have power when the inverter is on, I don't need to go hunting for an inverter outlet.

                I see, so the victron multiplus 3000 is actually a 2400w inverter so I should use 2400 for watts when planning instead of 3000, right?

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Damikester892 View Post

                  I see, so the victron multiplus 3000 is actually a 2400w inverter so I should use 2400 for watts when planning instead of 3000, right?
                  That's right. It's got a pretty good surge capability, mine is capable of running either my Dometic or Coleman AC units (not at the same time obviously) on low without any additional easy start.

                  Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                  Neil Citro
                  2018 Reflection 28BH Pepwave
                  2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Damikester892 View Post

                    I see, so the victron multiplus 3000 is actually a 2400w inverter so I should use 2400 for watts when planning instead of 3000, right?
                    kinda/sorta. Depends on what type of load. Watts works for resistive loads (for example a heater) , but you need to look at VA for inductive loads (something with an electric motor). Typically VA will be about 80% of W ratings. This is true for all inverters.

                    So, the simple answer is exactly what Neil said above
                    Allen

                    2021 Momentum 21G

                    Comment

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