17MKE power center

[dustinsn3485]

I've been spending most of my time on this forum reading and learning so far. We purchased our 2022 17MKE in October last year and have used it once so far. I tend to find projects and from my reading, a camper new or used, has plenty of projects.
My wife and I both work 6 days a week so the camper is for rare to occasional use for now. That means I have plenty of time in the driveway to work on problems that don't yet exist.

While I'm not ready to go down the solar wormhole yet, it does have the 1 165w panel and 25A MPPT. It also has the Furrion 12V 10 Cu refrigerator. I'd like to take as much advantage of the solar I can, so I decided to install a 100AH Renogy LiFePO4. The power center is a WFCO8735 and I'm replacing it with the Progressive Dynamic 4135 with the lithium switch in order to get the best possible charging without a ton of upgrading for now.

My questions and some observations...
AC side
- The 15A Breaker labeled for the fridge is empty.
- The converter is tied into the GFI 15A breaker. I see no reason not to put it on the empty breaker for down the road.

DC side
- I need to spend some time tracing wires unless someone already has answers.
- On the labeled refer/furnace circuit there is only one wire. it is White w/Orange tracer
- Ive not confirmed it, but I believe the fridge is direct to battery with an inline fuse near the battery. So there would be no wire on the above circuit for the fridge.
- The circuit labeled radio booster has two wires 1 is Gray and 1 is Black w/White tracer. Any idea what each wire is for?
- The circuit for battery disconnect 30A fuse has two wires, 1 red and 1 Red w/White tracer. Is that just an inline fuse for the battery through the control center?
- The 40A Rev Batt Protection goes direct to the board in the WFCO control center. On the Progressive control center there is a wire that needs connected . I'm still trying to figure out what to connect it to, I assume direct to battery +.
- If the battery disconnect 30A fuse is an inline fuse and the 40A Rev Batt Protection does need connect to battery +, should I add a 30A inline fuse near the battery?
- The circuit labeled control center is a brown wire and isn't connected to anything. What is that? I assume an open fuse position for an additional circuit if needed?

[howson]

AC side
- The 15A Breaker labeled for the fridge is empty.
- The converter is tied into the GFI 15A breaker. I see no reason not to put it on the empty breaker for down the road.

DC side
- The circuit for battery disconnect 30A fuse has two wires, 1 red and 1 Red w/White tracer. Is that just an inline fuse for the battery through the control center?
- The 40A Rev Batt Protection goes direct to the board in the WFCO control center. On the Progressive control center there is a wire that needs connected . I'm still trying to figure out what to connect it to, I assume direct to battery +.
- If the battery disconnect 30A fuse is an inline fuse and the 40A Rev Batt Protection does need connect to battery +, should I add a 30A inline fuse near the battery?
- The circuit labeled control center is a brown wire and isn't connected to anything. What is that? I assume an open fuse position for an additional circuit if needed?

The 8735 has an internal converter and the Progressive also appears to have one, right? The converter may be powered off the main and the label (installed by GD) may be wrong. Double-check the circuit breaker really does control the converter before making the change.

Figuring out which breaker controls what is easy to do.

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Edit: PV (solar) from the panel to the solar controller should be removed prior to doing the below test. The easiest way (since you probably don't have a disconnect) is to cover the panel on the roof with a blanket or something similar. Secure it so it does not blow off! The wires to the controller can be removed, too, but there will likely be live DC voltage and if not done properly you'll get to replace your controller sooner than you want to (don't blame me!).

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• Turn the Battery Disconnect switch to the OFF position to remove the battery as a source of 12V power.
• Turn on a ceiling light or one you can easily see inside the camper. The light should be powered with shore power connected (since the converter is providing 12v to the light).
• Turn off the converter circuit breaker--does the light stay on?
• If the light stays on, that breaker doesn't control the converter. Keep turning off breakers until the light goes off and you'll know which one controls it.

For all the other questions related to the Power Center swap, I suggest calling Progressive directly to get the answers. (Not that you asked for my opinion, but going to the WFCO 835LiS may have been a lot easier to execute. https://wfcoelectronics.com/product/wf-8735lis/ )

DC side
- I need to spend some time tracing wires unless someone already has answers.

Even if someone had mapped out their camper, there's no guarantee yours will be the same.

DC side
- On the labeled refer/furnace circuit there is only one wire. it is White w/Orange tracer
- Ive not confirmed it, but I believe the fridge is direct to battery with an inline fuse near the battery. So there would be no wire on the above circuit for the fridge.
- The circuit labeled radio booster has two wires 1 is Gray and 1 is Black w/White tracer. Any idea what each wire is for?

No idea on these--sorry.

When you do get done making the power center center swap and/or mapping out your camper, please do the forum the favor of posting the results. Sharing information is what an owner-to-owner forum is all about.

Howard

[dustinsn3485]

I appreciate the reply. The Progressive does have an internal converter. I'm confident that in the WFCO the converter was wired to the GFI breaker. I'll add some pictures once I'm done with everything, but the black wire from the converter in the WFCO has a wire nut and a jumper wire before going to the breaker labeled for the GFI circuit.
GD didn't label any of the circuits for the converter, so your test highlighted above would be the only way to identify the circuit without tracing wires.
Since the labeled 120VAC circuit for the fridge is an empty breaker, I plan to put the converter in the Progressive on its own breaker.
What I didn't do before removing the WFCO is to identify that the GD labels for each circuit are correct. That probably should have been my first step, but at this point I've already removed it so now I get to figure out each circuit with continuity.

My first step was to replace the WFCO 8135 with the LiS model, but I can not find one in stock. That would make this much simpler. Progressive highlights the 4135 as a drop in, it is not exactly a drop in, the overall dimensions are different, the 120VAC breakers are also different, and the 12V wiring is definitely going to be slightly different.

I'm taking some pictures and documenting as I go. I will post more once complete.

[ncitro]

dustinsn3485 Just another thought, you could take this opportunity to improve the efficiency of your system and move the converter to the battery bay. Shortening those cables will reduce voltage drop and send more charging power to your batteries. You can get the converter in a "deck mount"where it comes in a case and can then be mounted exposed. Usually they just have a regular 15A plug in them to plug into an outlet. You might need to run an outlet to your battery bay but that's pretty straightforward and then your battery wires just drop down to the batteries from the converter. You can just leave the factory converter and distribution panel in place and kill the breaker for the factory converter to leave it there for a backup.

[dustinsn3485]

ncitro Some things take a while to sink in for me. So forgive me if this is obvious. My thought process with changing out the power center is to keep everything mostly factory for now. To do that, I need to have the Progressive Dynamic that has the lithium charging ability, since the factory installed WFCO does not. It is also helping me learn and understand how RV power works.

I do understand the benefit of dedicated converter, but I'm having a little trouble with "how it works part", I think. Using howson instruction above to determine which breaker the factory converter is on makes sense because it's all packaged in one unit. If the battery is removed from the system the 110V is converting to 12V all within the factory power center. So I think that means that the camper (minus the fridge, brakes, trailer jack, and maybe some other items that are wired direct to battery) could run without a battery in it. I suppose the fridge could even be wired back into the 12V side and no battery necessary as long as you have shore power. So I guess that's the first question, that is correct?

If that is true, then to use an external converter in the battery bay plugged into a regular 15A plug would mean that the battery is required for all 12V sources?

[ncitro]

ncitro Some things take a while to sink in for me. So forgive me if this is obvious. My thought process with changing out the power center is to keep everything mostly factory for now. To do that, I need to have the Progressive Dynamic that has the lithium charging ability, since the factory installed WFCO does not. It is also helping me learn and understand how RV power works.

I do understand the benefit of dedicated converter, but I'm having a little trouble with "how it works part", I think. Using howson instruction above to determine which breaker the factory converter is on makes sense because it's all packaged in one unit. If the battery is removed from the system the 110V is converting to 12V all within the factory power center. So I think that means that the camper (minus the fridge, brakes, trailer jack, and maybe some other items that are wired direct to battery) could run without a battery in it. I suppose the fridge could even be wired back into the 12V side and no battery necessary as long as you have shore power. So I guess that's the first question, that is correct?

If that is true, then to use an external converter in the battery bay plugged into a regular 15A plug would mean that the battery is required for all 12V sources?

The converter and battery are essentially in parallel (as long as your battery disconnect is off). This means when on shore power you're drawing power from the battery, and the converter is charging the battery. It's actually more complicated than that, the higher voltage source is feeding the lower voltage draws, but it's easier to picture it that way. If you unplug from shore power then the converter isn't doing anything and you're drawing from the battery. The charge wire from the seven pin to the truck and a solar panel (actually the charge controller) are in parallel with the converter and battery as well. That means when on shore power, if hooked up to the truck you could have the battery, a solar panel, the trucks alternator (and battery), and converter all working together to feed your 12v loads.

In my setup I've left my factory converter in place for a backup and mainly rely on my inverter/charger as my "converter". I do also have a 100A converter in my front bay (fifth wheel) as an additional backup or of I need to charge my battery bank quicky I can run it together with my inverter/charger.

In my layout my batteries tie together with the rig power at a bus bar (high power terminal strip) so theoretically if I removed my batteries the charger or converter could supply my 12v loads. Note it's generally not a good idea to do that. You always want stove kind of battery in the system. It helps to absorb spikes from the charger/converter, or even the large inrush from the big draws like slides levelers and whatnot.

[Jlawles2]

As Neil is stating, the battery is basically a surge tank. (Think of the converter as a water supply pump. During low demand the pump runs at a slower speed, when more faucets are open the pump has to respond. if the pump cannot respond fast enough, the addition of a accumulator tank or surge tank will provide the brief demand requirement and overage while the pump corrects) The converter is usually capable of running everything in the camper, however there are those instances when it take the converter a moment to build up the pressure (amperage output) required to power items. In my case, I probably have a bad habit of doing one of the worst things possible. I will run slides 1 and 2 in or out at the same time. This is a HUGE inrush amp draw on the converter. the battery will absorb the difference between converter output and demand, especially if demand exceeds output.

All 12v systems in the unit are wired in parallel. There are no check valves (diodes) in the system to keep one item like the battery from feeding in conjunction with the other items like the converter. The Battery disconnect is the only valve in the system and it's an on off, not directional control mechanism. With our previous 5er, while stuck with a busted axle, I would run the truck at high idle and connected to the 7 way to rechargeg the battery in the camper as shore power was not available and the refrigerator on gas would drain the battery in 2 days due to the fans.

[dustinsn3485]

I'm following. What about the battery disconnect, how do you get around it, other than to remove it from the 12V system?
With the factory converter inside the power center it's wired direct to the DC distribution panel. So you could turn the battery disconnect off and using the converter still have power to the 12V sources.
With an external converter wired direct to the battery, you would need to ensure the battery disconnect is on for the converter to supply power to the 12V sources?
I understand that ideally you want the battery disconnect on and the battery being used as a storage tank, if you will. But the location of the converter makes a difference due to the battery disconnect. I guess, my question is, does it matter which side of the battery disconnect should the converter be on?

[ncitro]

I'm following. What about the battery disconnect, how do you get around it, other than to remove it from the 12V system?
With the factory converter inside the power center it's wired direct to the DC distribution panel. So you could turn the battery disconnect off and using the converter still have power to the 12V sources.
With an external converter wired direct to the battery, you would need to ensure the battery disconnect is on for the converter to supply power to the 12V sources?
I understand that ideally you want the battery disconnect on and the battery being used as a storage tank, if you will. But the location of the converter makes a difference due to the battery disconnect. I guess, my question is, does it matter which side of the battery disconnect should the converter be on?

Thats right. In my case I have removed that disconnect and installed a new one near the batteries and solar gear. If you kept the factory disconnect and needed to run that config you'd need to make sure it is on. That said again you really should not run the rig like that. You need the battery in the "loop"

[dustinsn3485]

ncitro I appreciate the response. it's taken a few days, but I understand clearly now. I'm thankful for all who have replied.

As I dig into projects I slowly learn something each time. I'll post a couple pictures of this power center swap, I've got the new one wired in just need to test and mount it. It ended up being pretty simple.
It's going to be fall probably, but I do plan to relocate the battery, disconnect, and install a converter now.

[dustinsn3485]

Here are a few images of the install. This ended up not being overly difficult. I still feel like I need to spend some time better identifying circuits, but other than that everything works like it should.

[Dood]

Your post has caused me to realize just how big that "solar wormhole" is.........Thanks for the post
Gaye&Steve
2021 17MKE (no solar)
2019 Tacoma
USN & USA Retired

[RichardTC]

dustinsn3485 I am in the process of installing the PD4135 in place of the WFCO WF8735. I have run in a snag with the DC wiring and what to do with the Battery Pos/Red (+). The PD instruction say to connect to F1 (red) lead (maybe F7) while on the WF8735 there is a red wire that connects to the battery disconnect at F6. I assume that the F1 referred to by the PD instructions is really F7.

Do you run into this situation? Either way how did you connect yours?

I've included a couple of reference photos. The first is the back of the WFCO fuse board with the soldered in yellow reverse polarity wire. The second contains the WFCO WF8735 fuse assignments in my trailer, F1 through F7.

Any assistance would be much appreciated.

[howson]

RichardTC -- the photos didn't attach?

[RichardTC]

RichardTC -- the photos didn't attach?

howson Should be all fixed now. They were showing on my phone and tablet, but not on my Windows laptop. I edited them from the laptop, they appear to be fixed. Thanks!