Parasitic draw

[Paul and judy]

I have a 2021 310 GK and I’ve been worried about my battery draining very quickly even when nothing is on. So I checked the amperage today with a Clamp meter and I am drawing with nothing on just over one amp. Does anyone have any insight into whether that is large or average.

[Dale B]

That is a good size draw, if you do not have any solar charging you are consuming 25ah per day. If that is your car or truck that would flatten the battery quickly. There are certain things that may not turn off with the battery switch, it's not a true disconnect.

We are picking up our 2022 310 GK one week today, it will be off grid & I will digging into the 12 vdc system quickly. I did order the factory solar & have 2ea 200ah smart lithium batteries waiting to be installed.

[WickedJulesTikiAl]

We have a 303RLS and we were having about .77amp draw even with the factory installed cutoff switch in the disconnect position. It drew down our battery within a week in storage. I rewired everything when I upgraded to lithium batteries and installed a real cutoff switch that kills everything when off. You can see the details in my upgrade post if you are curious what I did. There are concerns out there about totally killing everything so you should do your own research on what you are comfortable with. Long story short…your drain is about what mine was so it appears “normal” to me. For our situation, whenever we are traveling or in the rig, our battery switch is on so it deals with the critics out there that says a total disconnect is dangerous. Our smoke detectors were battery only powered but I replaced them with a 10 yr battery system that are not as “cheap” as the factory installs. In any case our smoke detectors were not powered by the rig batteries anyhow. The CO monitor was (is) powered off of the rig batteries and contributing to parasitic drain. I say “was” because we replaced it with a high end, 10 year battery powered one. That shaved off another .10amp parasitic drain (although it’s a moot point with our new total disconnect system). I plan on, for my own edification, tracking down the other parasitic drains…but again, its a rather moot point now that we have a total disconnect switch. Editorial comment: if Grand Design was more forthcoming with their wiring diagrams, us owners wouldn’t have to hunt and peck in the dark trying to figure it out. I get the proprietary concerns, but competitors are already buying GD rigs and tearing them apart to reverse engineer them so why make owners, in essence, do the same with their own rigs?

[ncitro]

We have a 303RLS and we were having about .77amp draw even with the factory installed cutoff switch in the disconnect position. It drew down our battery within a week in storage. I rewired everything when I upgraded to lithium batteries and installed a real cutoff switch that kills everything when off. You can see the details in my upgrade post if you are curious what I did. There are concerns out there about totally killing everything so you should do your own research on what you are comfortable with. Long story short…your drain is about what mine was so it appears “normal” to me. For our situation, whenever we are traveling or in the rig, our battery switch is on so it deals with the critics out there that says a total disconnect is dangerous. Our smoke detectors were battery only powered but I replaced them with a 10 yr battery system that are not as “cheap” as the factory installs. In any case our smoke detectors were not powered by the rig batteries anyhow. The CO monitor was (is) powered off of the rig batteries and contributing to parasitic drain. I say “was” because we replaced it with a high end, 10 year battery powered one. That shaved off another .10amp parasitic drain (although it’s a moot point with our new total disconnect system). I plan on, for my own edification, tracking down the other parasitic drains…but again, its a rather moot point now that we have a total disconnect switch. Editorial comment: if Grand Design was more forthcoming with their wiring diagrams, us owners wouldn’t have to hunt and peck in the dark trying to figure it out. I get the proprietary concerns, but competitors are already buying GD rigs and tearing them apart to reverse engineer them so why make owners, in essence, do the same with their own rigs?

Be careful, what you refer to as a CO detector may in fact be a propane leak detector. Usually that's what's hardwired to run all the time.

[WickedJulesTikiAl]

Excellent point. You learn something everyday! I’ll check it out. Thanks!

[Paul and judy]

The other thing I am doing is trying to size my energy needs for a solar Install. Was quite surprising to me that the parasitic draw would be 25% of 100 amp hour lithium battery. This is why I’m trying to understand whether at one amp I am over that the normal draw and that perhaps something is wrong

[howson]

The other thing I am doing is trying to size my energy needs for a solar Install. Was quite surprising to me that the parasitic draw would be 25% of 100 amp hour lithium battery. This is why I’m trying to understand whether at one amp I am over that the normal draw and that perhaps something is wrong

Hope you don't mind the math...a 1 amp draw from a 12v battery (it's higher but for argument's sake let's use 12v) is 12 watts, or 12W. Think of an old incandescent light bulb--a 12W light most would consider barely suitable for a nightlight in the hallway.

Another way of documenting the watt draw is in watts per hour. 12 watts per hour is 12Watt/hour, or 12Wh. Again, IMO that's not that large of a draw considering the multitude of electronic control boards in the appliances and other components in modern RVs. A 100aH lithium battery (again using 12V which is not 100% accurate but good enough for this discussion) has 1200wH of power (12v * 100 amps).

To your specific statement about sizing the solar array for energy needs...that's a tough one to answer. It's like someone asking how often they will have to refill their water tank on a dry camp trip. There are significant variables:
How big is the water tank?
How much water will be consumed per day?
(Stretching the analogy for a moment, consider that rainwater is directed into the fresh water tank.) How often and how much will it rain?

Answer those three variables and an answer can be given to the water question. Same goes for solar.

The "water tank" is the battery bank. Bigger is definitely better, LifePO4 without question.
Consumption is how many Wh (or Ah if you're more comfortable with that formula) will be consumed.
"Rain water" is, of course, PV (solar power).

Nothing definitive there (sorry)--the answer is and can only to your solar query "it depends".

[TedS]

A 100Ah battery will supply 1 amp for 100 hours. A little over 4 days to draw down the battery.

[Yoda]

I have a 2021 310 GK and I’ve been worried about my battery draining very quickly even when nothing is on. So I checked the amperage today with a Clamp meter and I am drawing with nothing on just over one amp. Does anyone have any insight into whether that is large or average.

Just as a reference. I have a BM712 tied into my multiplus system withe the touch 50 display. When on battery power only and nothing on I am seeing a 40-44W drain - a little over 3 amps. I have not tried it with the disconnect switch off. However I have found power being used by the radio even when off, the CO detector and propane detector. Both of those are power when disconnect is off.

In your front compartment you will see a long black plastic cover over the positive buss bar. might look something like this with the cover off. Mine is in the lower right corner on the back wall.

There are 4 wires connected to the copper buss bar through circuit breakers. The big red one goes to the disconnect switch and returns on the far left as the big black wire which then goes on to the12V side of the distribution panel. The other three are always hot, even when the disconnect switch is off. Your wiring may be different, but if connected to the copper bus bar, they too will always be hot. You can try disconnecting one at a time and figuring out what they power. GD does keep the same color coding to the final connection.

So for storage and to prevent any battery drain. disconnect the batters themselves. I remove the negative cable. They should hold charge for may months. If you have or get solar panels, remember the controllers draw power too, so make sure to keep the panels clean and if you get snow, just disconnect the batterys.

Hope this helps
Keith

[Paul and judy]

Hope you don't mind the math...a 1 amp draw from a 12v battery (it's higher but for argument's sake let's use 12v) is 12 watts, or 12W. Think of an old incandescent light bulb--a 12W light most would consider barely suitable for a nightlight in the hallway.

Another way of documenting the watt draw is in watts per hour. 12 watts per hour is 12Watt/hour, or 12Wh. Again, IMO that's not that large of a draw considering the multitude of electronic control boards in the appliances and other components in modern RVs. A 100aH lithium battery (again using 12V which is not 100% accurate but good enough for this discussion) has 1200wH of power (12v * 100 amps).

To your specific statement about sizing the solar array for energy needs...that's a tough one to answer. It's like someone asking how often they will have to refill their water tank on a dry camp trip. There are significant variables:
How big is the water tank?
How much water will be consumed per day?
(Stretching the analogy for a moment, consider that rainwater is directed into the fresh water tank.) How often and how much will it rain?

Answer those three variables and an answer can be given to the water question. Same goes for solar.

The "water tank" is the battery bank. Bigger is definitely better, LifePO4 without question.
Consumption is how many Wh (or Ah if you're more comfortable with that formula) will be consumed.
"Rain water" is, of course, PV (solar power).

Nothing definitive there (sorry)--the answer is and can only to your solar query "it depends".

thanks Howson.....I appreciate any and all help....

I have been sizing my energy needs based on spreadsheet I found on the internet. Came up with about 200ah -225 ah per day....not including the parasitic draw. My 25% comments was for a day. So roughly 288 watts per day for parasitic is about 25% of 100 ah lithium battery or about 10% of my daily requirements. My last little travel trailer did not have nearly that amount!

[Paul and judy]

Would be cool to understand the watts required for each of the items that draw power when everything is off. I have heard that the various detectors, radios, fridge (even if off) and the leveling system all are part of the draw. People have said they move to battery based detectors for instance to reduce the parasitic draw so would be nice to see what the big draws are and come up with strategies to minimize.

[howson]

Paul and judy -- lots of tools out there if you were determined to track down each and every device drawing power. For the 12v items, the Fuse Buddy system (lots of different options) is a way to measure how much is being drawn by a given circuit. Obviously whatever stops working (with the fuse pulled) is on what's on that circuit. I haven't gone that far with mapping my system, but it's possible.

Howard

https://www.amazon.com/Electronic-Sp.../dp/B083VWQS2P

[Dale B]

Would be cool to understand the watts required for each of the items that draw power when everything is off. I have heard that the various detectors, radios, fridge (even if off) and the leveling system all are part of the draw. People have said they move to battery based detectors for instance to reduce the parasitic draw so would be nice to see what the big draws are and come up with strategies to minimize.

My existing Jayco will draw 1.1ah, those consumers are the stereo, propane detector, fridge & slides(electric brake so they don't come out moving). If you are following the math that is 26.4ah per day, you are talking lithium so lets a 100ah battery. My understanding is 80% - 90% is reasonable to discharge, that is 80-90ah divided by 26.4ah. Approx. 3 days & dead. My new Grand Design will have 400ah of Lithium therefore 12-13 days.

In season, lots of sun I've no worries & let it all run. Shoulder season I can easily disable all but the fridge & the draw is around 600ma or .6ah.

When you are identifying the loads that clamp on is OK for finding bigger loads, smaller stuff like stereo are difficult. The amp hound is easy, you just measure across the fuse & it tells the draw. I like a DC current meter in series with negative battery terminal. You can identify items on that cct. that you might not expect.

I will be over this when I take delivery next week.