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Tapping 12V from the truck to charge Battle Borns

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  • #31
    Originally posted by TucsonJim View Post
    Howard - another point to consider. You state that the "current 7-pin connector only provides 9A of 12vDC." I know you measured 9 amps with your Victron. But how did you set up the test? If you were just measuring current to charge the batteries, it may not be fully drawing from the alternator depending on the battery's state of charge.
    Jim,
    I ran down the Battle Born's (BBs) to a 75% state of charge (SOC). Gee whiz info: It took less than an hour to go from 100% to 75% SOC running the bedroom a/c on High Cool (temp setting was lowest it would go so compressor ran the entire time).

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    I turned off the a/c and except for the Victron inverter, BMV-712, and CCGX nothing was running in the camper. (Ignore the 0% shown on the screen shot--I inadvertently turned everything off which reset my SOC.) The reading on the left was without the truck connected. The one on the right was the best I could get out of the truck. A whopping 8.1A of 12vDC.

    Bottom line: anecdotally I've always heard that the truck only provides a "trickle charge". Unless you can think of a different way to run the test, I'm convinced this is the best it will do in the OEM configuration through the 7-pin connector.

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    2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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    • #32
      Originally posted by howson View Post

      Jim,
      I ran down the Battle Born's (B**) to a 75% state of charge (SOC). Gee whiz info: It took less than an hour to go from 100% to 75% SOC running the bedroom a/c on High Cool (temp setting was lowest it would go so compressor ran the entire time).

      I turned off the a/c and except for the Victron inverter, BMV-712, and CCGX nothing was running in the camper. (Ignore the 0% shown on the screen shot--I inadvertently turned everything off which reset my SOC.) The reading on the left was without the truck connected. The one on the right was the best I could get out of the truck. A whopping 8.1A of 12vDC.

      Bottom line: anecdotally I've always heard that the truck only provides a "trickle charge". Unless you can think of a different way to run the test, I'm convinced this is the best it will do in the OEM configuration through the 7-pin connector.
      I love repeatable results. I’ve done a similar test and wound up with 9-10 amps while under way (rpms up and alternator working), so I’d say you’re right on.
      Last edited by howson; 12-14-2019, 06:49 PM. Reason: Removed pics from quote to make Jim's response easier to see.
      Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

      Neil Citro
      2018 Reflection 28BH Pepwave
      2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

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      • #33
        Inspired by Bigjaike (Monty) I've redrawn the diagram showing the Renogy on the camper side. He's right that there is a definitive advantage to keeping the output side of the Renogy wiring short. The overall diagram is definitely busier and there's more devices (for protection and control) but it is doable.

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        Last edited by howson; 12-14-2019, 07:24 PM.
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        2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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        • #34
          I received the Renogy yesterday and had to see if it will fit in the designated space (as shown in post 33). Based on dimensions it should fit, but nothing like seeing it first hand to confirm. Short video below shows it will be perfect. Can't wait to start the install, Bigjaike !

          Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

          2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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          • #35
            Making progress! While installing the LevelMatePro (see other thread) I also wired what I'm going to use to trigger the Renogy's "D+" signal. (Renogy's charger won't work without it--see owner's manual.)



            The wire is ready for installation. Hopefully that happens today...

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            Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

            2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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            • #36
              Originally posted by howson View Post
              Making progress! While installing the LevelMatePro (see other thread) I also wired what I'm going to use to trigger the Renogy's "D+" signal. (Renogy's charger won't work without it--see owner's manual.)



              The wire is ready for installation. Hopefully that happens today...

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              Looking good Howard, I am going to have to delay my install, just got transferred to another city so I am trying to get my house sold and buy another one. I will be doing my update as soon as I can.
              Monty and Nena, with our 4 legged friend Allie
              Durham, OK

              2018 Dodge Ram Laramie Longhorn CC 4X4 DRW Mopar M25 hitch with 90 gal Aux tank
              2018 Grand Design Momentum 376TH
              2014 Harley Tri-Glide

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              • #37
                Good news first--works exactly as expected. First pic below shows what I normally see while towing (refrigerator is on, etc). The image on the right is the exact same configuration but the Renogy is on and working. Hooray!!! (Ignore the 99% State of Charge percentage shown below--it is not correct. I need to reset the SOC after cycling the BMV's power.)

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                So the "bad" news--how does a person order just ONE Anderson connector? ​​​​​ I'm also short a copper lug and wire loom. Didn't plan this project very well...yikes!

                Couple of lessons learned:

                DIP SWITCHES
                In the Renogy installation manual the dipswitch setting instructions are confusing. What you want to do is set S5 first. This setting determines if the Renogy is charging a Lead Acid or a LIthium. (For my Battle Borns S5 is OFF.) There are then separate settings S1-S4 for Lithiums (confusingly called "Type 1" and "Type 2") and settings for the Lead Acids. The instructions don't tell you at the start that the first settings are for Lead Acid and the settings AFTER they (finally) tell you to set S5 are for Lithium.

                Here's my settings:
                S1: OFF
                S2: ON (The combo of S1 and S2 set the charger to 14.4 max as recommended by Battle Born. I called them and double-checked.)
                S3: ON
                S4: ON (The combo of S3 and S4 set the charger to "Type 2")
                S5: OFF (Sets charging mode to Lithium)

                Of note, Battle Born (BB) had different switch settings in their "cut sheets" for the Renogy. I double-checked and found the settings they recommended were wrong. I called BB back and after doing some checking they agreed that what I've written above is correct.

                LUGS
                The lugs needed for the Renogy are 4 x 5/16. https://www.amazon.com/Purple-Termin.../dp/B074J89Y5V

                VOLTAGE READINGS
                Without a load, the output of the Renogy is 14.4v (as expected). Under load, the output of the Renogy is determined by the SOC (state of charge). For example, at one point my BB's were at 13.29v without any load. With the unit on and charging the voltage at the output was "only" 13.6vDC. I called Renogy and talked through what I was seeing and they said it was working perfectly.

                MOUNTING 4 AWG WIRES TO BATTERY, RUNNING WIRES, ETC
                Connecting to the battery was a challenge (at first) since neither of the two batteries in my truck had accessory posts. Crawling under the truck for hours is no fun, either. The video below is probably better than me typing out a zillion words...



                WIRING IN THE RENOGY TO THE BATTLE BORNS
                The Victron 12/3000 MultiPlus Inverter has two mounting points for positive and negative 12vDC. Electrically the negative side is the same point as the ground shunt connection (shunt came with the Victron BMV-712 Battery Monitor) and on the positive side it is (electrically) the same point as the output of shutoff #2. So I used the convenient points on the inverter--made it super easy. At some point I'll redraw the schematic of my system and repost the summary with all the updates.

                The lugs I used are 4 x 3/8 for the inverter connections. I'll be cleaning up the install below with wire management, etc, before I call the project complete. Almost everything in this post is an "in process" picture.

                I also still plan on incorporating a Solid State Relay up near the truck's battery that an Upfitter Switch will control. This will give me a manual method of removing 12v from the cables and the Anderson plug at the back of the truck. More to come on that topic.

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                Questions, comments, or something you see that doesn't look right--please don't hesitate to post!

                -Howard
                Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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                • #38
                  Outstanding work Howard. Thanks so much for taking the time to share this here with us. I hope to do something similar some day.
                  Brian & Kellie
                  2020 Grand Design Solitude 310GK-R, FBP, MORryde IS, 1,460w solar and 540ah BBGC3
                  2020 Ford F-350 Platinum SRW PSD Tremor, 60g TF fuel tank, Hensley BD3-F air bag hitch

                  Previous setups:
                  2019 Grand Design Solitude 373FB-R, 2019 Ford F-350 Platinum DRW Powerstroke, Hensley BD5 air bag hitch
                  2016 Grand Design Reflection 318RST, 2016 GMC 3500 Denali SRW Duramax, Hensley BD3 air bag hitch

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                  • #39
                    Well didn't I get lucky. After viewing Will's video I went back and looked at what I ordered (and installed). Turns out I got exactly the right wires (and lugs).

                    Here's what I bought (and installed):
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                    If you haven't watched Will's videos, I highly recommend them! (The one below is the video that made go look at what I used.)

                    Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                    2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by howson View Post
                      If you haven't watched Will's videos, I highly recommend them!
                      I agree! I've subscribed to his channel. He's knowledgable and fun to watch. He gets really excited geeking out over batteries and solar.
                      Brian & Kellie
                      2020 Grand Design Solitude 310GK-R, FBP, MORryde IS, 1,460w solar and 540ah BBGC3
                      2020 Ford F-350 Platinum SRW PSD Tremor, 60g TF fuel tank, Hensley BD3-F air bag hitch

                      Previous setups:
                      2019 Grand Design Solitude 373FB-R, 2019 Ford F-350 Platinum DRW Powerstroke, Hensley BD5 air bag hitch
                      2016 Grand Design Reflection 318RST, 2016 GMC 3500 Denali SRW Duramax, Hensley BD3 air bag hitch

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                      • #41
                        A little more progress today. Still waiting on the wire loom to complete the project. (I think Amazon shipped by a mule train.)

                        Today I finished up the install of a 60A relay that is controlled by Upfitter switch #2. When the switch is off 12V power stops at the relay. This allows me to remove the power "sitting" at the connector at the rear of the truck. It has a 60A breaker, so I don't want that always "hot" when not in use. I can also easily turn off the DC-DC Converter, too, with the Upfitter switch if I find myself in a traffic jam on a hot day and need to power off some systems.

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                        I also moved the 60A circuit breaker closer to the battery. I don't like having it on top of the fuse box (mounted with heavy duty mount tape) but the only other place was down on the frame rail, a good 4' further away from the battery. It was just too far away.

                        https://www.onlinecomponents.com/cry...-45158262.html

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                        Here's what the relay installation looks like mounted on the firewall on the passenger side of the truck (the output of the relay is not currently connected):
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                        I had to trim the plastic cover to get the 4 ga copper lugs to fit underneath. The small piece of Gorilla tape ensures it stays in place. (Disappointing.)

                        The top connections of the relay are the control signal from Upfitter #2. The wiring for the upfitter is on the driver's side near the firewall, so I had to run a wire to the front and found that under the radiator shroud worked perfect. I added wire loom where there was a chance of any chaffing.

                        I need to downsize the fuse in the Upfitter #2 circuit. 25A is way too much. The wire will burn up before the fuse will. (The relay only draws a max of 14mA for the control circuit so 25A is kind of ridiculous.)

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                        More to come in the days ahead...hope someone finds this useful...but keep in mind it has not passed the "test of time" yet. You can be sure I'll update this thread with both the good and bad.
                        Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                        2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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                        • #42
                          gbkims, Jkwilson, TucsonJim or anyone other electrical person!

                          The lowest-rated MCase fuse made is 15A. That's still way too big for a circuit with 22AWG wires. (The wires power the input side of the relay in my circuit. The relay's input draws a maximum of 14mA.)

                          I'm contemplating just wiring in a glass fuse holder in series with a 1A rated fuse. If there's an issue with the circuit, the fuse should go before the wire fails. I'm basing that statement on the chart from this website: https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/w...ges-d_419.html

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                          Any other option?
                          Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                          2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by howson View Post
                            gbkims, Jkwilson, TucsonJim or anyone other electrical person!

                            The lowest-rated MCase fuse made is 15A. That's still way too big for a circuit with 22AWG wires. (The wires power the input side of the relay in my circuit. The relay's input draws a maximum of 14mA.)

                            I'm contemplating just wiring in a glass fuse holder in series with a 1A rated fuse. If there's an issue with the circuit, the fuse should go before the wire fails. I'm basing that statement on the chart from this website: https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/w...ges-d_419.html

                            Any other option?
                            Howard,
                            I'd put in an inline ATO/ATC fuse holder with the cap that covers the fuse along with a 1A ATO fuse.
                            ATO/ATC fuses goes down to 1A.

                            I think the ATO/ATC should be the same type of fuse that's used in your trailer's AC/DC panel.
                            Gene and Kim
                            2015 Grand Design Reflection 317RST
                            2017 RAM 3500 CC, LB, 4x2, 6.7L CTD

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by gbkims View Post

                              Howard,
                              I'd put in an inline ATO/ATC fuse holder with the cap that covers the fuse along with a 1A ATO fuse.
                              ATO/ATC fuses goes down to 1A.

                              I think the ATO/ATC should be the same type of fuse that's used in your trailer's AC/DC panel.
                              That is what I’d do as well.
                              John & Kathy
                              2014 Reflection 303RLS
                              2014 F250 SC SB 6.2

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                              • #45
                                More progress today. The wire loom showed up and is perfect. I'm not going to post pictures of that portion of the project until I've got it all neat and tidy. Tomorrow's weather is supposed to be lousy, so hopefully the project will be 100% complete by Sunday.

                                What I did finish was the cleaning up the Renogy installation. Tidied up the wires and added a protective cover to keep from having something accidentally hit it (or the terminals). The cover is held on by dual-lock ("velcro") tape. The cover is very light material and the fabric is the same as what I used during the inverter project so it blends nicely.

                                I also rotated the wire passthru to align the wires better with the Renogy charger.


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                                The picture doesn't show it well, but the bottom is a good 2-3" above the tray so the felt doesn't wick water. There's plenty of airflow from the bottom through the top (again, picture doesn't show the gap) and there is also gaps in the side.

                                Click image for larger version  Name:	Update 2.JPG Views:	0 Size:	114.9 KB ID:	10752Very pleased so far with the results!
                                Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                                2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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