Lights in Pantry - Adding strip lights (Mod)

[howson]

This is not an original mod - I definitely "stole" the idea from others who posted on other forums. Some of the posts go back to 2016 and earlier. I have no idea if these individuals are here, but you know who you are and I thank you for the information. I'm sure this is an incomplete list, but the one's I know of are Ramgunner, dannysdaddy, guns338, Maximum216 and Papahoosh.

The purpose for this post is to add to their work by documenting what I think are slight variations to their mod as I think I did it a little differently. Let me apologize up front for the length of the post, but hopefully my verboseness (is that a word?) helps someone to understand what I did.

If you're not familiar with how the motion-sensitive lights in our campers work, I'll attempt to explain the wiring in post #2.

The LED strip light I purchased was from Amazon. Search for GuoTonG Dimmable LED Light Strip Kit and you'll find many options. Note that there are color differences in what can be purchased. I bought bright white but you may want a warmer color. There are also many options for power, too.

Here's what I bought:


How does it look? Below is result--Fran's happy so I'm happy.


I'm pleased that the color difference from the OEM light isn't obvious. I think it is due to how I installed the LED light strip. It's attached to the interior trim. The glue backing on the strip works great.

You'll note from the picture below that the corners aren't secured down to the trim--I'll explain that next.



The reason the lights aren't secured in the corners is because I used one continuous run of lights. This necessitated "bending" the light strip around the 90 degree corners of the pantry. While it may not look elegant on the interior, you can't see this from the outside and it saves from having to solder together multiple strands or supplying more than one power source. Hopefully that makes sense once you read the rest of this post.

The blue painter's tape at the top is holding excess wire in the cavity above the trim. Again, not pretty but it's functional.

To power the lights I used the motion sensor circuit from the OEM pantry light. I attached the power leads to the center point of the light strip. I found the center of the installation by tacking up the light strip with blue painters tape. Once I knew that point I found the closest point where I could input power. On the light strip there are copper ovals (it's about every three lights) where the strip is meant to be cut. What I did was carefully trim off the clear plastic leaving the strip intact. (This wasn't easy but it is doable.) The picture below with the red lines shows where I removed the clear cover over the oval. To get the solder to stick to the copper ovals I had to lightly rough them up. I used the tip of a razor blade meant for a box cutter. Then I soldered on 18ga wires, leaving plenty of excess that was trimmed later. (The gauge matches what the LED OEM had supplied at one end that I later cut off.)



If you look again at the previous "scary" photo with me in it, the red shrink wrap is covering the wires soldered to the copper ovals in the middle of the light strip.

The picture below shows another view. The ground, or white wire, isn't attached from the OEM light yet. It will go to the green wire coming from the LED strip.



Securing the lights was easy. I started by wiping down the trim with 91% alcohol to ensure it was free of contaminants. Then, starting in the top center of the pantry to ensure the power leads were aligned with the OEM light, it was a simple matter of pressing the light strip on the interior of the pantry's trim.

See post #2 for Power and How the Circuit Works

[howson]

Power and How the Circuit Works



In pic 1 and 2, ignore the brown wires with the blue heat shrink. The black line I drew across the light represents how the OEM light is originally wired.

As shown, +12v comes in on the black wire and -12v (ground) on the white wire. The +12v is always available at the light (shown by the red arrow on the left side pointing where the black wire attaches to the front side of the light circuitry). All the light needs to turn on is -12v (ground).

Still on pic 1, the yellow arrow shows where ground is always available. When the light switch is moved to the continuously-on position, ground goes across the switch to the center conductor and then to the light on the white wire.

In pic 2 there's a small yellow arrow on the right side showing where ground is supplied to the white wire if the motion sensor "sees" movement. This doesn't mean the light will turn on--what it does is provide ground to the other side of the light switch. The yellow arrow on the left side in pic 2 shows the connection. If the light switch is set to the motion setting, when the sensor provides ground the light will turn, again through the same center conductor on the switch.

Now look at pic 3. To get the circuit to work I cut the black wire (removing power first!) and inserted another wire using butt splices that I then covered with heat shrink wrap as an additional caution. For ground, I soldered on a wire to the switch's center conductor. I then used a butt splice to connect that wire to the green one from the LED light strip (the one I soldered on).

Note that if you attach the LED's -12v to any other white wire other than the center point of the switch you won't be able to turn the LEDs off. If the -12v is attached to upper white wire in pic 1 the LEDs will always be on. If -12v is attached to the lower white wire in pic2 the lights will come on every time the sensor "sees" motion.

Sorry for the length of these two posts--hope this is helpful. Any questions, fire away.

-Howard

[DavidC]

Power and How the Circuit Works


As shown, +12v comes in on the black wire and -12v (ground) on the white wire. The +12v is always available at the light (shown by the red arrow on the left side pointing where the black wire attaches to the front side of the light circuitry). All the light needs to turn on is -12v (ground).


-Howard

Howard,
Did you make any allowance for the strip light max voltage of 12v DC to work in the often 13v+ DC environment found in an RV plugged into shore power? Those LED strip lights are designed to be powered by a constant voltage power supply usually converting 120v AC to constant 12v DC. The often 13v+ DC created by the RV charging/converter system is likely to shorten the life of the LED strip. The fixed LED light fixtures RVs use are designed to work in the variable voltage environment found in RVs or at least the quality fixtures are. That's why the cheap ones fail long before the 20,000 hour expected life.

I'm in the middle of designing and installing both white LED strips inside cabinets, like your project, and multi color LED strips over/under cabinets for accent, all to work on the RV 12v DC (really anywhere from10v-14v depending on battery state or charging system voltage) as part of a comprehensive lighting project for the whole camper. As a matter of fact you already helped me on another thread to find rotary dimmer switchs and convenience center switch blanks to hold a dimmer switch for both the main cabin lights and awning light. The dimmer on the awning is mostly to lower the 13v+ DC going to the awning LED strip when tied to shore power and keep it at 12v or below. I'm guessing GD uses off the shelf 12v LED strip lights for the awnings that have a 12v max. Thank you for the help by the way. That part of the project went great.

[howson]

Howard,
Did you make any allowance for the strip light max voltage of 12v DC to work in the often 13v+ DC environment found in an RV plugged into shore power? Those LED strip lights are designed to be powered by a constant voltage power supply usually converting 120v AC to constant 12v DC. The often 13v+ DC created by the RV charging/converter system is likely to shorten the life of the LED strip. The fixed LED light fixtures RVs use are designed to work in the variable voltage environment found in RVs or at least the quality fixtures are. That's why the cheap ones fail long before the 20,000 hour expected life.

I'm in the middle of designing and installing both white LED strips inside cabinets, like your project, and multi color LED strips over/under cabinets for accent, all to work on the RV 12v DC (really anywhere from10v-14v depending on battery state or charging system voltage) as part of a comprehensive lighting project for the whole camper. As a matter of fact you already helped me on another thread to find rotary dimmer switchs and convenience center switch blanks to hold a dimmer switch for both the main cabin lights and awning light. The dimmer on the awning is mostly to lower the 13v+ DC going to the awning LED strip when tied to shore power and keep it at 12v or below. I'm guessing GD uses off the shelf 12v LED strip lights for the awnings that have a 12v max. Thank you for the help by the way. That part of the project went great.

Honestly...no. Never even dawned on me that the charge voltage (13.4) might be a problem. If (when?) the lights fail I'll be sure to follow-up.

I hope you'll document your project and share it with the forum. (And you're welcome!)

[Cate&Rob]

DavidC

Hi David,

I am intrigued with your perspective that LEDs are this sensitive to voltage. I have a variety of LED lights and PWM dimmers throughout the RV. No problems so far.

But, even more interesting . . . I have an older 48V golf cart. I have added a number of 12V LED lights powered by two of the six 8V batteries. So . . . 12V LEDs powered by 16V. No problems encountered so far.

Rob

[DavidC]

DavidC

Hi David,

I am intrigued with your perspective that LEDs are this sensitive to voltage.

Rob

Rob,
I am by no means an LED electronics expert. But, I do know that LEDs are very sensitive to the forward voltage applied. The max voltage of any LED circuit is based on how that circuit is built. If the forward voltage is exceeded a little the LED will continue to work but it will shorten the expected life. If it is exceeded a lot the LED will burn out quickly. In the limited work I've done with LED strip lights I've found that because they are generally designed for home applications using a fixed power supply they are very sensitive to voltages above the rated voltage. If you've worked with LED replacement bulbs to fit older incandescent style fixtures you may have seen this. LED replacements that are rated for 12v only and are used in an RV/marine environment don't last very long before they loose an LED or start flickering. The bulbs that are rated at a slightly higher voltage last much longer in our RV environment. Example is the 10v-30v bulbs from M4 Products (921-17-5630-WW) which will almost last forever because they are designed to work in our real world electrical environment that varies in a wide voltage range.

I don't know what the LEDs are on your golf cart or how it's wired so I can't directly speak to that. What i can tell you is that if you are exceeding the forward voltage of your LED system in the golf cart the expected life of those LEDs is being reduced and they will fail prematurely eventually. Same thing regarding the LEDs in your RV. It will all depend on the LED's actual rated voltage and how they are wired.

20 plus years ago before you could find LED fixtures or LED bulbs for marine applications, I used to build my own LED fixtures from incandescent units. I had to build the LED circuits to tolerate the up to 16 volts that are common in boats using a three stage charger and high current alternator. I blew up a lot of LEDs figuring out how to do that. LOL. I initially built them for the 13.4v for a fully charged 12v battery. Then I turned on the engine and charging system and watched the LEDs blink out in short order.
Later when we moved from sailboats to RVs I had to learn that lesson all over again trying to change the incandescent bulbs over to LED. The 12v only rated bulbs would fail in a year or so. Moving to bulbs rated to work with a range of 10v-30v lasted forever.

In my RV lighting installation with LED strips, I'm planning to use BUCK DC to DC converters that electronically limit the output voltage to 12v only, regardless of the input voltage (there are some limitations including a minimum voltage differential) without burning up the difference as heat. ASIN B07KWX33X5. I may even wire one into my awning light circuit. LOL.

[DavidC]

Honestly...no. Never even dawned on me that the charge voltage (13.4) might be a problem. If (when?) the lights fail I'll be sure to follow-up.

Howard,
If you are interested, I just did some testing with a DC to DC BUCK converter from Drok (3005AH) that i ordered from Amazon for $13.99 (ASIN B07KWX33X5). It is a PWM device (pulse width modulation) that instead of varying the pulse width to dim an LED (lower the voltage), you set an output threshold voltage and the device varies the pulse width to maintain the set output threshold voltage regardless of variations on the input voltage. The one limitation is,for instance, if you set the output voltage for 12v and the input voltage drops below 12.7 or so the output voltage begins to drop and stay around 3/4 of a volt below the input voltage. But in this application having the LED lights run at 11v on a slightly tired house battery is no significant loss. The other limitation with this particular unit is the max load is 5 amps. Higher current units are available.

I'l document both adding LED strip lights to the cabinets, like you did, and adding accent lights around the main cabin that will be RGB+CCT and remotely controlled to post on the forum here.

[howson]

Howard,
If you are interested, I just did some testing with a DC to DC BUCK converter from Drok (3005AH) that i ordered from Amazon for $13.99 (ASIN B07KWX33X5). It is a PWM device (pulse width modulation) that instead of varying the pulse width to dim an LED (lower the voltage), you set an output threshold voltage and the device varies the pulse width to maintain the set output threshold voltage regardless of variations on the input voltage. The one limitation is,for instance, if you set the output voltage for 12v and the input voltage drops below 12.7 or so the output voltage begins to drop and stay around 3/4 of a volt below the input voltage. But in this application having the LED lights run at 11v on a slightly tired house battery is no significant loss. The other limitation with this particular unit is the max load is 5 amps. Higher current units are available.

I'l document both adding LED strip lights to the cabinets, like you did, and adding accent lights around the main cabin that will be RGB+CCT and remotely controlled to post on the forum here.

Always interested in what others are doing, David. I'm learning every day.

I get to re-do the cabinet lighting as the DW has decided she doesn't like the color of the daylight LEDs.

Since the first install I've found solderless snap-on clips that I'm going to try. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1



I re-ordered the lights but hopefully this time I won't have to try and solder wires in the middle--I'll just snap them on. (Usually not a fan of snap-on contacts, but they are worth a try.)

I'll also document the change.

[DavidC]

Always interested in what others are doing, David. I'm learning every day.

I get to re-do the cabinet lighting as the DW has decided she doesn't like the color of the daylight LEDs.

Since the first install I've found solderless snap-on clips that I'm going to try. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1



I re-ordered the lights but hopefully this time I won't have to try and solder wires in the middle--I'll just snap them on. (Usually not a fan of snap-on contacts, but they are worth....[/ATTACH]

Hoard,
The "warm white" will look great in your application!
Be prepared to drop a bit of solder on the metal clips on the connectors. With the motion and bounce of the RV the solderless may not hold on the LED strip pads. Also be aware, depending on the width of your LED strip, there are solderless "T" connectors so you could place the "T" at the top of the door near the original LED light to wire to the "T" then send a branch of LED strip down the left side and one down the right. But even if you have to add a bit of solder the installation it will be much clearer. I wit be using aluminum led chanel mostly for the bits that will be visible under the cabinet also to help defuse the light and to provide a heat sink for the LED strip lights.

[howson]

Hoard,
The "warm white" will look great in your application!
Be prepared to drop a bit of solder on the metal clips on the connectors. With the motion and bounce of the RV the solderless may not hold on the LED strip pads. Also be aware, depending on the width of your LED strip, there are solderless "T" connectors so you could place the "T" at the top of the door near the original LED light to wire to the "T" then send a branch of LED strip down the left side and one down the right. But even if you have to add a bit of solder the installation it will be much clearer. I wit be using aluminum led chanel mostly for the bits that will be visible under the cabinet also to help defuse the light and to provide a heat sink for the LED strip lights.

These look like they may be a more robust option than the LightingWill connectors: https://www.mouser.com/new/inspired-...pawconnectors/

[DavidC]

These look like they may be a more robust option than the LightingWill connectors:

Howard,
Those look nice and solve the problem of the standard clip style only gripping the strip on the pads just with the tension of the clips. I'd be interested in what combination of clips/adapters you end up using and how well they work for you. Good luck!

[howson]

As they say in the movies..."Take 2!" <click>

The DW didn't like the color temperature of the lights, so swapped in the warmer 3000Ks.



I reworked the corners, too, using the manufacturers fittings.



The only issue with the fittings was the light material wasn't stiff enough to overcome the resistance of the spring clips so they wouldn't seat properly. I had to gently pry up the clips so the light strip went completely under them.




Trimming the waterproof material off was easy. I used a very sharp razor knife and was able to remove just the portion over the electrical connection.

One lesson learned--if you put the light in the clip the wrong way the light doesn't come on. Polarity is important. (Imagine that...polarity is important when working with diodes...duh...)

I don't have a picture of it, but the DW put a frosted material on the inside of the pantry's glass door and it looks good!

[howson]

I also added lights under the island in the cabinet today. I tapped the 12V going to the carbon monoxide detector in the back left corner of the island. The power is behind an "L" cover protecting the water lines. The carbon monoxide circuit is always on if the battery is connected (power is tapped from the 30A self-resetting breaker near the tongue) so I wired in a 2A fuse to this new light circuit. I could have used a 1A, but the point is the circuit I added has it's own protection.

In the first pic (left) I'd already cut the positive lines and removed the "L" bracket. (ALL power was removed from the camper prior to doing this!) The pic on the right shows where I put the fuse (but further up the wire).




Here's the completed assembly with the motion sensor wired in.


I wrapped around the interior and the front edge got two rows of lights.



Now there's no excuse not to take the garbage out...easy to see when it's full.

[Txfivver]

Sheesh Howard that looks incredible! And to think I get excited when I can get the camper level !! You retired guys have too much time on your hands (I kid I kid) Great job! So far now my to do list when I retire is 3,487 items long

[OurNewEra]

Perfect! Thanks howson . Lots of information to digest. I believe the redo with warm lights looks much better. Good to know because I would have purchased the bright white.