Pedestal issue or remove the surge protector

[dgerfan]

RoyB Yes most time when there is a flicker and I hurry out to catch the reading on the SG there isn't anything displayed. Per Southwire tech support it isn't uncommon for a low voltage situation to persist for only a number of milliseconds before the voltage returns to normal levels. In this instance the SG LCD screen wouldn't show the reason why it cut power. They do however sell a bluetooth display that is able to read the last three events. I have went ahead and ordered it.

The outlets in the RV that I mentioned don't work after the 50A flickers and then is restored by the SG is the receptacle in the bedroom and bunk room and the water heater. I verified there is no power by plug in a Kill-A-Watt to these outlets. For the water heater if I go outside it don't hear any audible noises and the water isn't even warm after being on for over 30 minutes.

I do have a multimeter and will be sure to check the 50A voltage once we run into another power issue. Also we have experienced this issue when the park is full and when its not full. As for rainfall there is a severe drought in the part of the US so no rain in about 2 months.

I believe the 50 amp breaker was replaced but will have to check with the owner. Unfortunately we are in the only full hookup site in the park (there isn't even a dump station here) and our site is away from all the other campsites.

[howson]

howson Correct it was the batteries not the Multiplus. I have (4) 100 Ah Battleborns.

That is plenty of batteries.

For what it's worth I had the same situation happen to me where power dropped in the campground (without knowing it as we were visiting nearby) and came back to the camper with all kinds of alarms going off due to an overload. I've since put all non-critical loads on one leg and critical loads on the other. This way if power drops the non-critical stuff turns off and the critical stays on. (Bedroom A/C is for the pup, it's set on Low Cool - Auto to maximize how long it will run.)

If interested further I can dig up the threads where all of this is documented.

[Country Campers]

I will have to look into how easy it is to tighten the RV female shore connection. The owner did tighten the 50A wires coming into our Pedestal and at the Main Panel but I can ask him to do it again.

Sorry, my meaning of checking the breakers for loose wires was the breaker panel inside the RV. I did find on ours a few loose wire connections. If there is a loose wire somewhere inside the RV this could explain when it happens and you go out to see if the there are any lights on the EMS to indicate a problem and there are none, would also explain why you do not have power sometimes to a circuit inside the RV.

Just thinking out loud here.

Brian

[RoyB]

RoyB Yes most time when there is a flicker and I hurry out to catch the reading on the SG there isn't anything displayed. Per Southwire tech support it isn't uncommon for a low voltage situation to persist for only a number of milliseconds before the voltage returns to normal levels. In this instance the SG LCD screen wouldn't show the reason why it cut power. They do however sell a bluetooth display that is able to read the last three events. I have went ahead and ordered it.

The outlets in the RV that I mentioned don't work after the 50A flickers and then is restored by the SG is the receptacle in the bedroom and bunk room and the water heater. I verified there is no power by plug in a Kill-A-Watt to these outlets. For the water heater if I go outside it don't hear any audible noises and the water isn't even warm after being on for over 30 minutes.

I do have a multimeter and will be sure to check the 50A voltage once we run into another power issue. Also we have experienced this issue when the park is full and when its not full. As for rainfall there is a severe drought in the part of the US so no rain in about 2 months.

I believe the 50 amp breaker was replaced but will have to check with the owner. Unfortunately we are in the only full hookup site in the park (there isn't even a dump station here) and our site is away from all the other campsites.

So power flickers, then you lose power? But the SG says there is no issue? That sure seems like an issue with your equipment somewhere. If the power dropped at the pedestal, and you had no power in your camper, then the SG should be telling you that. Sounds like one leg of your SG is sticking open when there is a flicker. Removing power and plugging into the 30A must fix it somehow. I assume the inside has a contactor, and it's likely not closing all the way.

The next time it happens, you need to check voltage with multi-meter. Make sure it is on AC power. Start in this order:

1. Outlet in camper with no power:
   1. Check hot to neutral (should be 120ish volts)
   2. Check hot to ground (should be 120ish volts)
   3. Check neutral to ground (should have 0 volts and continuity)
2. Outlet at the SG
   1. Check L1 to Neutral (should be 120ish volts)
   2. Check L1 to Ground (should be 120ish volts)
   3. Check L2 to Neutral (should be 120ish volts)
   4. Check L2 to Ground (should be 120ish volts)
   5. Check L1 to L2 (should be 240ish volts)
   6. Check Ground to Neutral (should have 0 volts and continuity)
3. Outlet at pedestal (unplug SG)
   1. Check L1 to Neutral (should be 120ish volts)
   2. Check L1 to Ground (should be 120ish volts)
   3. Check L2 to Neutral (should be 120ish volts)
   4. Check L2 to Ground (should be 120ish volts)
   5. Check L1 to L2 (should be 240ish volts)
   6. Check Ground to Neutral (should have 0 volts and continuity)

Getting these readings will help figure out where the issue is. If SG is showing 0 volts but says power is OK, then the SG is bad. If SG shows 0 volts and the pedestal has 0 volts, then the power to the pedestal is the issue. I don't know what the voltage range of a kill-a-watt is, but it's possible it is only 100 volts and the power coming in is only 90 volts and not enough to turn on the kill-a-watt. If that is the case then the SG is bad, and shouldn't be letting 90 volts in.

If the problem persists and all readings are normal (they shouldn't be), you could ask the CG to swap the hot wires on the 50 amp breaker. If the problem persists with the same outlets, then it is an issue with your equipment. If the problem moves to the outlets there were fine before, then the problem is likely at the pedestal/supply.

I am a commercial electrical contractor. The key to finding the problem is checking readings down the line, starting at the problem first.

[dgerfan]

RoyB I apologize to everyone if my posts are confusing and if I"m using terms like 'power flickers", etc.... out of context. It also hard to keep all the different events straight as there might be different dynamics in each event such as at one time we're connected to 50A and Inverter power assist is set to 20A whereas another time we're connected to 30A and power assist is set to something different. When I used the term power flickers I meant the power is cut for a couple seconds and then turns back on. And since the SG only shows events that are ongoing there wasn't anything display on its screen. Now that I have the SG bluetooth module I should be able to see events.

I will be sure to perform the tests you recommended. The reason why I used the kill-a-watt was because its hard to get the multi-meter contact into the RV outlets. I already knew the outlets weren't working because the fan and cell charger connected to them wasn't working.

[dgerfan]

I received the Surge Guard Bluetooth module today and paired it with the SG. After pairing it I immediately looked at the recorded events. As was suspected all the events are regarding low voltage. However I can't just show this to the Owner as proof of an issue with our pedestal as the events don't show when (date/time) they occurred, how long the persisted and what were the readings that caused the event.

If you are looking to replace your SG with a "smart" one you might want to find one that provides all the specifics. I looked at the other popular units such as the Hughes Power Watchdog. A plus is that it has a app however it looks like it to only has basic logging, I could be wrong. There is a product called RV Whisper that can communicate with Watchdog and since its date/time aware it might be able to show that. It looks to be expensive just for this type of monitoring as it can monitor much more than just power.

Is anyone aware of a cheap solution that would provide more information. Even if it just plugged into an outlet and showed when the outlet lost power. Right now the Microwave clock is our best solution.

[howson]

dgerfan -- unfortunately this doesn't meet your "cheap" criteria, but with a Victron GX device (connected to the internet), there's a graph available on the Victron portal showing input voltage and current draw over time. In my case it's only one of the two input lines (I have the Multiplus, not the Multiplus II) so I suspect owners of the two-line model should be able to monitor both input lines. WondersAwait ? ncitro ?

Example from my system:

[Jkwilson]

Have you verified that your 50A cord is making good contact where it plugs into the trailer? I’ve seen a lot of people have trouble there.

[RoyB]

Was there resolution to this?

[Yoda]

I was assuming the pedestal has three outlets. A 50-amp, a 30-amp and a 20-amp. If there is no 30-amp a dogbone may used to drop a 50-amp to a 30-amp outlet. I don't think the dogbone manufacturer pays attention as to which leg, L1 or L2, is used. So you could have lots of dogbone adapters on L1, for instance, causing the excess voltage drop.

Ted My 50 to 2-30A dog boon adapter is wired off each leg. On 30A is L1 and the other is L2. I verified this when I got it. However you could be correct as some are wired off of one leg only, so verify before you buy.and verify again when it arrives. This is what I have https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...0?ie=UTF8&th=1

I had to use it once on my Alaska trip. The pedestal had a 50A RV service, a 30A RV service and a normal 15A plug i. I have a 30A service cord. The progressive EMS alerted me when I first plugged in to the 30A Rv service that it had low voltage (108) . So I pulled out the 50 - 2(30) adapter and plugged it into the 50A service and then checked each leg. One was the 108 and the other was 118, so I used the 118V side and everything was fine. I alerted the camp ground host and he mentioned he had heard of that issue before, but did not know the cause until I explained that they may have wired the 30A services to the same leg, thus creating more load on that one leg. Campground was pretty full.

Now I looked at a scrap of my house feed wire (250A service). One white, two black and a ground, Both black wires look the same. No different marking that I could see. So how can an electrician tell a difference between pedestals when wiring. It would be ideal to take the 30A feed from one leg alternating between pedestals in my mind, but you folks know I like to let the magic smoke out

Keith

[Jlawles2]

Yoda Correct Keith, unless they are marking the cables in some way, they have no clue as to which leg the 30A is wired into. More likely they wired the system into the mini panel on the pedestal the same for all of the spots. Reality is they should have alternated either the "hots" as they are wired into the bus bar, or swapped the 30A and 15A breakers in the box to balance the load on the system.

[RoyB]

Now I looked at a scrap of my house feed wire (250A service). One white, two black and a ground, Both black wires look the same. No different marking that I could see. So how can an electrician tell a difference between pedestals when wiring. It would be ideal to take the 30A feed from one leg alternating between pedestals in my mind, but you folks know I like to let the magic smoke out

Keith

They are supposed to put a wrap of tape to identify the different phasing. I have switched to colored wiring since the cost is same as black wire now. The guys in the field have a much easier time keeping track of everything now.

[TedS]

The electricians may also run separate wires rather than sheathed wires.