Inverter install and Converter modification on 22MLE

[sutrick2001]

After a few days this is where I am at with the transfer switch.

Renogy 2000 Watt inverter wired into the generator portion of the transfer switch.
I disconnected the live wire of converter from the breaker in the WFCO 8735, and ran a 12/2 wire from the transfer switch to the 8735, connected the ground and neutral to the panel, and bonded the live wires together.
Disconnected the 30 amp 10/2 wire shore power wires from the breaker panel and extended them to the transfer switch.
Wired the shore power 10/2 and the converter 12/2 into the shore power portion of the transfer switch.
Ran a new 10/2 wire from the panel portion of the transfer switch to the 30 amp breaker in the WFCO 8735.

What this accomplishes.
When I am on shore power the converter is powered and charges the batteries.
When I an on the inverter, the converter is disconnected by the transfer switch and does not charge the battery.

For those that are asking why do this, on the WFCO 8700 series, the converter is part of the panel and not a stand alone item.

A few things that I noted.
1) there is a 30 second delay in the transfer switch when turning the inverter on.
2) The connecters in the GoPower TS-30 are fickle, I had an issue with the inverter tripping a ground fault when it would transfer over. Turned out that I wasn't getting a good connection on one of the neutrals.
3) I have a 2022 23BHE, I assumed that I had a WFCO 8735, turns out I have the WFCO 8735-AD, which means that the converter auto detects if you are using Lithium, (I haven't upgraded to lithium yet, but I was trying to figure out how I was going to upgrade the converter. Don't have to now.

[sutrick2001]

OK, here we go again, I tested everything out earlier and it worked great. Ran everything but the AC (didn't try). Reconnected to shore power charged each of the new batteries individually, set everything back up to parallel. Turned off the breaker to my shore power and wanted to test the inverter again... Ground Fault... Thought about my trouble shooting steps from earlier and realized that I was un plugged from shore power. Went back, un plugged the shore power, turned on the inverter. It was good to go. Turned the breaker for the shore power on, plugged in the cord, transfer switch worked as advertised, unplugged shore power cable, turned on inverter, worked as advertised.

I guess on the GoPower TS-30 you cannot have your shore power cord plugged in even if the breaker is off. I guess I'm an idiot, but I lost 6 hours of trouble shooting to get to this point. It least it all worked out in the end. Good luck to anyone else attempting this.

[acoleman43]

OK, here we go again, I tested everything out earlier and it worked great. Ran everything but the AC (didn't try). Reconnected to shore power charged each of the new batteries individually, set everything back up to parallel. Turned off the breaker to my shore power and wanted to test the inverter again... Ground Fault... Thought about my trouble shooting steps from earlier and realized that I was un plugged from shore power. Went back, un plugged the shore power, turned on the inverter. It was good to go. Turned the breaker for the shore power on, plugged in the cord, transfer switch worked as advertised, unplugged shore power cable, turned on inverter, worked as advertised.

I guess on the GoPower TS-30 you cannot have your shore power cord plugged in even if the breaker is off. I guess I'm an idiot, but I lost 6 hours of trouble shooting to get to this point. It least it all worked out in the end. Good luck to anyone else attempting this.

Ground fault can mean you are using a common neutral for circuit that should be separated. Seems like this can be the case in the TS-30? Maybe shore and inverter are connected to a common neutral?

Edit: Could be the shore power/converter wired together as well. Being a visual person I'm having a hard time picturing this....

[Jlawles2]

You should not be bonding anything in the camper. Bonding should be automatic by the inverter or a bonding plug on a generator if used. From what I remember and what I have seen, bonding inside the camper can cause you to trip external breakers and cause other strange things to occur.

There are more knowledgeable people here that will most likely chime in.

[Melsman]

…Quick question, if you disconnect the converter wire from the AC breaker panel and add it to the GP TS 30 are you worried about not having a breaker to isolate the converter? I noticed on the GP TS 30 schematic it shows a fuse on the hot wire for the converter, what fuse are you using?

I had this very discussion with Go Power tech support. As you noticed, the GP-30 ATS schematic shows a 15A “fuse” in the converter leg to address the fact that it is no longer connected via a circuit breaker. However, instead of a fuse, I will be using a 15A panel mount resettable breaker (see attached photo) mounted on the enclosure of the ATS.

Melsman

[Melsman]

…Reconnected to shore power charged each of the new batteries individually, set everything back up to parallel. Turned off the breaker to my shore power and wanted to test the inverter again... Ground Fault... Thought about my trouble shooting steps from earlier and realized that I was un plugged from shore power. Went back, un plugged the shore power, turned on the inverter. It was good to go. Turned the breaker for the shore power on, plugged in the cord, transfer switch worked as advertised, unplugged shore power cable, turned on inverter, worked as advertised.

I guess on the GoPower TS-30 you cannot have your shore power cord plugged in even if the breaker is off...

I think acoleman43 may be on the right track here. It’s not the TS-30 per se, it’s the fact that grounds(and by association, commons) are getting mixed. By not disconnecting the common/ground from shore power (only the hot via the circuit breaker) you have mixed the commons/grounds from the inverter and shore power - both of which have commons/grounds that must be kept separate from each other. The ATS is wired to switch the commons and hots, but NOT the grounds. Remember, the commons and grounds are bonded together at the source points so they are, from an electrical potential standpoint, one and the same.

You can handle this two ways: you can use a second ATS to automatically separate the grounds during transfer, or simply not be connected to shore/generator power while using the inverter. I choose to use the second option since I see no situation where I would use the inverter and be connected to shore power. But your experience during testing is a good lesson for everyone. Thanks for sharing.

Melsman

[sutrick2001]

I had this very discussion with Go Power tech support. As you noticed, the GP-30 ATS schematic shows a 15A “fuse” in the converter leg to address the fact that it is no longer connected via a circuit breaker. However, instead of a fuse, I will be using a 15A panel mount resettable breaker (see attached photo) mounted on the enclosure of the ATS.

Melsman

The fuse/breaker is the last thing I need to address.

Before closing everything up, I did a final walk through and made sure that all my neutrals and grounds were separated. Unless there is something in the trailer that I didn't change, they are both separate. It is all going to work for me, because I have no intention of running the inverter, while on generator or shore power. I just thought is was crazy that with the shore power cord connected is when I would get the fault. The inverter would run fine, then when the TS kicked in, it would ground fault. My only thought is that the cord had enough resistance in it, that when the switch flipped there was just enough draw make the inverter think there was a fault.

I just hope this helps someone else down the road.

I did warm up my first cup of coffee in the microwave this morning off of battery power. Time to save up for the next upgrade, new Lithium batteries....

[Jlawles2]

sutrick2001 Save for as long as possible because Lithium batteries should be less than 6 months in age difference from oldest to newest. Also the longer you save, the cheaper they are getting. an extra couple of months could be a complete battery in savings.

Hopefully unbonding the neutral and ground fixed the issue of having it plugged in with the breaker off, although it may not as where you are plugged in is probably bonded also which will lead to the same issue. I have seen bonded panels plugged into GFCI that would trip the GFCI. Essentially the bonding provided an alternative path for the return amperage which was enough to trip the GFCI. Hence the reason TT are not bonded at the factory.

Since we do not boondock, solar is not a high priority option for me. Something I may explore in the future though.

[Melsman]

As a follow-up...

I did eventually get around to installing and integrating the inverter into our 22MLE. For those that are interested, here is a link to my post that describes the process.

Melsman