Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Fresh Water Tank Not Lasting

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Ace,

    We have the same issue where we cannot access 10 gallons with the pump. A simple truss made with a large base plate of treated ply (or aluminum), a block and stronger strap (not banding) from each frame rail could help. It would be exposed but this would not be an issue.

    Jim

    Comment


    • #17
      270RD same issue with the tank bellying. We boondock a lot and more often than not we have to travel with the water tank full. The straps mentioned above are only 5/32nd strapping held on by one #6 self drilling screw on each end. This gives absolutely no support. I dropped the coroplast and installed an angle iron grid under the tank from the frame rails and the cross members (be aware of the tank heater). Have since but on about 5000 miles with no concerns. Best of luck.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by howson View Post
        lmlayfield -- I assume at some point you'll take a peak under there after a few tows to do an inspection on this addition? When (if) you do, please follow-up with how it went. Of course we'll want to know if it solved the water issue, too.

        Howard
        Howson I rejected the plywood repair as insufficient because the reuse of the thin metal straps, not to mention I think wood was a terrible idea. GD has agreed to pay the dealer to install two rigid bars underneath each tank. I am somewhat apprehensive due to the sloping tank bottom and the failure to be meticulous on the level of the rigid supports could make the repair ineffective. If the dealer thought wood and straps was okay, I have real reservations they will take the time to install the rigid bars correctly. Stay tuned!
        Last edited by Country Campers; 01-05-2023, 10:06 AM. Reason: Please read rule 15

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by lmlayfield View Post
          Hi Ace -

          Your issue may be caused by a situation similar to mine.

          Hello, I have a recently purchased 2022 21G myself, we just used it the first time and we will have our tanks full a lot when using. We usually fill somewhere on the way, closest as possible to the destination. Every single toy hauler RV I have owned sagged in the center of the tanks after the first few uses. Actually the next time I fill up I'm going to watch the bottom and see if the insulation starts pushing down as I fill for my own knowledge. I had Weekend Warrior with 150 gallon fresh water (actually 2 75 tanks) 8 years and it never fell out, but it was ugly looking when full with a big belly and actually one of the axels would push up on the tank while driving. I guess you can call it supported by the axle, 🙄 eventually as it sags even more over time. I actually saw my old RV in November and the original tanks are still in it from 2008 and he was still using it! It's sad to say but unfortunately the manufacturer probably won't do anything about it unless it falls out or structurally damages anything. The tanks are only plastic so it would make sense that they stretch when full on hot summer days driving while full over the hot pavement. Call it "normal wear and tear" I guess.

          A couple possible solutions would be install angle iron as long as it clears the axels every 12" or so. Or install 1/4" thick solid steel across the bottom of the tanks. However the ladder you would have to install drain holes because water will get in there while driving in the rain and road salt and rust the panel over time.

          I hope the first paragraph a little comforting that at least those never fell out, however still annoying! While I think the manufacturers should have a better design for tank support, they just have not offered it in a RV to my knowledge yet and is something I just accepted as part of RV ownership. If they offer you a solution I would be interested as I know the sagging is coming for me in the next couple of uses and I would hate to lose any of my 100 lb capacity.
          Current: 22" Momentum 381MS, 2020 F350 Dually 6.7 diesel, 4.10 rear 32k Reese 5th wheel hitch
          In the past: 22' Momentum 21G, 21' F150 XLT Screw 5.0 w 3.73, Andersen Hitch
          Q7 Diesel, 22" Ozark THX 1900. 11' F350 Crew, King Ranch, 8' bed, dully, 08' Weekend Warrior LED 3505 triple axle 5th wheel. 04' F250 diesel, 05' Keystone tailgater with old Reese WD hitch, no sway control

          Comment


          • #20
            Hi GreggGDMomentum -

            I understand the general issue we are discussing is not unusual. The tank belly by itself is not a concern if it did not create the inability to access the fresh water. I have no expectation of getting every drop of fresh water out of my tanks. If the belly were somewhat elastic and retracted as the water weight were reduced and the only water I could not reach was a gallon or two, I would consider such acceptable. The status of acceptable is conditioned upon the dump valves working as expected and releasing that last gallon or two. In my case, 25% of the stated capacity (25 gallons) is inaccessible. What is worse is you cannot even empty the tanks using the dump valves. I still have 10 gallons or so sitting in the belly with the dump valves open.

            Imagine the many new RV owners unaware of this issue and think their fresh water tanks are empty after opening the dump valves. If you just cleaned the tanks you still have 10 gallons of bleach water. If you dumped your tanks two or three weeks ago and think they are empty, you actually have 10 gallons of likely fetid water. Then you have a short trip planned and you add 5 or 10 gallons to your tank for travel water, I really don’t want to drink what comes out of the faucet during that travel day!

            My issue with GD is the magnitude of the issue and their abject denial that it even exists. Just because this issue has existed to a smaller degree in the past does not mean GD should be allowed to get away with this level of problem now. I am not a fan of the concept “we do it this way because we have always done it this way.”

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by lmlayfield View Post
              Hi GreggGDMomentum -

              I understand the general issue we are discussing is not unusual. The tank belly by itself is not a concern if it did not create the inability to access the fresh water. I have no expectation of getting every drop of fresh water out of my tanks. If the belly were somewhat elastic and retracted as the water weight were reduced and the only water I could not reach was a gallon or two, I would consider such acceptable. The status of acceptable is conditioned upon the dump valves working as expected and releasing that last gallon or two. In my case, 25% of the stated capacity (25 gallons) is inaccessible. What is worse is you cannot even empty the tanks using the dump valves. I still have 10 gallons or so sitting in the belly with the dump valves open.

              Imagine the many new RV owners unaware of this issue and think their fresh water tanks are empty after opening the dump valves. If you just cleaned the tanks you still have 10 gallons of bleach water. If you dumped your tanks two or three weeks ago and think they are empty, you actually have 10 gallons of likely fetid water. Then you have a short trip planned and you add 5 or 10 gallons to your tank for travel water, I really don’t want to drink what comes out of the faucet during that travel day!

              My issue with GD is the magnitude of the issue and their abject denial that it even exists. Just because this issue has existed to a smaller degree in the past does not mean GD should be allowed to get away with this level of problem now. I am not a fan of the concept “we do it this way because we have always done it this way.”
              I'm definitely all in on a solution and will be keeping a close eye on this thread to see if the manufacturer will do something about it because I know this will be coming for me also. It's actually gross to know that we can't get all the water out also. I drank water once with bacteria in it once mountain biking and never want that again as I was sick for a few days.🤮 I've always put a little Clorox in randomly and only use the water in the tanks to wash the bikes and shower and use bottle water for coffee and drinking. Can't wait to see where this goes, I'm cheering for you and anyone else going down this road.
              Current: 22" Momentum 381MS, 2020 F350 Dually 6.7 diesel, 4.10 rear 32k Reese 5th wheel hitch
              In the past: 22' Momentum 21G, 21' F150 XLT Screw 5.0 w 3.73, Andersen Hitch
              Q7 Diesel, 22" Ozark THX 1900. 11' F350 Crew, King Ranch, 8' bed, dully, 08' Weekend Warrior LED 3505 triple axle 5th wheel. 04' F250 diesel, 05' Keystone tailgater with old Reese WD hitch, no sway control

              Comment


              • #22
                Stiffening could be molded in. Even better would be putting the drain port in the center of the bottom face. Even when the bottom sags, you could still drain all the water. Like putting the vent port in the center of the top would allow 100% capacity filling, not losing 10gal because of a side port location.
                Ted
                2021 Reflection 310RLS
                2020 F350 PS,CC,LB,SRW

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by lmlayfield View Post

                  Howson I rejected the plywood repair as insufficient because the reuse of the thin metal straps, not to mention I think wood was a terrible idea. GD has agreed to pay the dealer to install two rigid bars underneath each tank. I am somewhat apprehensive due to the sloping tank bottom and the failure to be meticulous on the level of the rigid supports could make the repair ineffective. If the dealer thought wood and straps was okay, I have real reservations they will take the time to install the rigid bars correctly. Stay tuned!
                  Wood is very strong especially in compression where a treated wood option would be ok with heavier banding done right. Most likely they did not go that route. Metal can be used but abrasion is a factor with a metal support on a plastic tank.

                  Jim
                  Last edited by Guest; 01-05-2023, 11:57 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by TedS View Post
                    Stiffening could be molded in. Even better would be putting the drain port in the center of the bottom face. Even when the bottom sags, you could still drain all the water. Like putting the vent port in the center of the top would allow 100% capacity filling, not losing 10gal because of a side port location.
                    Ted,

                    I had a quote from a tank manufacturer out of Texas who also installs baffles to eliminate slosh. It was a custom tank to fit our Imagine. The tank was very expensive as a one off but could be much less costly with a major contract with the RV industry. Central plumbing would be ideal in what we currently have.

                    Jim

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by MidwestCamper View Post

                      Wood is very strong especially in compression where a treated wood option would be ok with heavier banding done right. Most likely they did not go that route. Metal can be used but abrasion is a factor with a metal support on a plastic tank.

                      Jim
                      Guest in my case the wood was untreated plywood and untreated 2x4s. They painted it black to provide some coating. But, I live in Alabama where the humidity and moisture are pervasive, not to mention I now have a cut and taped coroplast which never seals as tight as one piece does. The kicker was they reused the thin metal straps which have no real ability to support the weight of nearly 50 gallons of water. To make matters worse they blocked up one end of the shoulder mounted tank to try and make the bottom level. So now with a full load of water which will stress the thin metal bands, the tank will bear weight only on each end of the shoulders instead of down the entire length. GD has since agreed verbally to pay the dealer to redo the repair using two rigid metal bars to support the tank bottom while the shoulders are level on the cross members. I am cautiously optimistic this will work, but the same dealer who thought wood, blocking and straps was a good idea has to execute the installation of the rigid supports at different levels due to the sloping bottom of the tank. Stay tuned!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by lmlayfield View Post

                        Guest in my case the wood was untreated plywood and untreated 2x4s. They painted it black to provide some coating. But, I live in Alabama where the humidity and moisture are pervasive, not to mention I now have a cut and taped coroplast which never seals as tight as one piece does. The kicker was they reused the thin metal straps which have no real ability to support the weight of nearly 50 gallons of water. To make matters worse they blocked up one end of the shoulder mounted tank to try and make the bottom level. So now with a full load of water which will stress the thin metal bands, the tank will bear weight only on each end of the shoulders instead of down the entire length. GD has since agreed verbally to pay the dealer to redo the repair using two rigid metal bars to support the tank bottom while the shoulders are level on the cross members. I am cautiously optimistic this will work, but the same dealer who thought wood, blocking and straps was a good idea has to execute the installation of the rigid supports at different levels due to the sloping bottom of the tank. Stay tuned!
                        Using the proper ply and laying it full length with something taller than the 2x4s and much thicker banding, they would have formed an inverted truss. The ply would be in compression to prevent frame flex where the bands would be in tension. This would work if the material was properly sized and treated to prevent rot. In this case, there is some support but the frame can flex inward where the tank will still belly and once the wood rots, there will be no support from the banding.

                        And jacking up one side creates a stress concentration. Bad idea.

                        Jim

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by lmlayfield View Post

                          Guest in my case the wood was untreated plywood and untreated 2x4s. They painted it black to provide some coating. But, I live in Alabama where the humidity and moisture are pervasive, not to mention I now have a cut and taped coroplast which never seals as tight as one piece does. Stay tuned!
                          I filled up my fresh water tanks the other day because I wanted to know what it changed for my hitch weight which was 60 lbs more than empty. We only used the RV 1 week and the tanks are pushing down on the coroplast and I can see it starting to push on thew kitchen galley grey tank drain when full. I didn't get that picture, wish I did. Anyway, here is the picture attached of them drooping. Like I said, I figured I would be right behind you. My tanks only seem like 24" wide and run the width of the camper. Yours look different in the photo, but mine are still covered. Same model 21G but mine is a 2022 and yours a 21. Do you think there was a change from year to year? Also, depending on what final solution was applied to you this may become a DIY project for myself.
                          Attached Files
                          Current: 22" Momentum 381MS, 2020 F350 Dually 6.7 diesel, 4.10 rear 32k Reese 5th wheel hitch
                          In the past: 22' Momentum 21G, 21' F150 XLT Screw 5.0 w 3.73, Andersen Hitch
                          Q7 Diesel, 22" Ozark THX 1900. 11' F350 Crew, King Ranch, 8' bed, dully, 08' Weekend Warrior LED 3505 triple axle 5th wheel. 04' F250 diesel, 05' Keystone tailgater with old Reese WD hitch, no sway control

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by GreggGDMomentum View Post

                            I filled up my fresh water tanks the other day because I wanted to know what it changed for my hitch weight which was 60 lbs more than empty. We only used the RV 1 week and the tanks are pushing down on the coroplast and I can see it starting to push on thew kitchen galley grey tank drain when full. I didn't get that picture, wish I did. Anyway, here is the picture attached of them drooping. Like I said, I figured I would be right behind you. My tanks only seem like 24" wide and run the width of the camper. Yours look different in the photo, but mine are still covered. Same model 21G but mine is a 2022 and yours a 21. Do you think there was a change from year to year? Also, depending on what final solution was applied to you this may become a DIY project for myself.
                            GreggGDMomentum you can unscrew the coroplast on the drivers side and lower it enough to peak in and see your tanks. What you are looking for is the mounded shoulder shape fore and aft, and thin metal straps underneath. If you see rigid metal bars holding up your tanks then maybe you have a different kind. Based on my conversations with GD it is most likely your tanks are just like mine. Open the dumps, bypass the water heater, drive on blocks under the passenger wheels and completely empty the tanks. Level the unit, measure the water you put in, 20 - 30 gallons should be enough, and pump out into 5 gallon buckets so you can measure output. Once it sputters, drive on blocks again, put buckets under the dump valves, and see how much you get out. These numbers should tell you where you are.

                            If you have an issue, even if you are outside your one year warranty period, report the issue to GD that your fresh tanks are not functioning properly. Take the position this is not a warranty repair but a design issue GD needs to correct. Keep us posted.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by lmlayfield View Post

                              GreggGDMomentum you can unscrew the coroplast on the drivers side and lower it enough to peak in and see your tanks. What you are looking for is the mounded shoulder shape fore and aft, and thin metal straps underneath. If you see rigid metal bars holding up your tanks then maybe you have a different kind. Based on my conversations with GD it is most likely your tanks are just like mine. Open the dumps, bypass the water heater, drive on blocks under the passenger wheels and completely empty the tanks. Level the unit, measure the water you put in, 20 - 30 gallons should be enough, and pump out into 5 gallon buckets so you can measure output. Once it sputters, drive on blocks again, put buckets under the dump valves, and see how much you get out. These numbers should tell you where you are.

                              If you have an issue, even if you are outside your one year warranty period, report the issue to GD that your fresh tanks are not functioning properly. Take the position this is not a warranty repair but a design issue GD needs to correct. Keep us posted.
                              Thanks for the info, we just bought it 12/6/22 so I have some time to keep an eye on it and wait till some sun comes back to western PA. My RV is sitting an inch out in the driveway with the drains on the low side. When I drained it I actually pushed up on the tanks, mainly to figure out the location of each tank and each one only spit out a little water including the black and grey so far, but I expect them to droop eventually. Oh, build date was 2/22 so I would suspect we are probably the same build.
                              Current: 22" Momentum 381MS, 2020 F350 Dually 6.7 diesel, 4.10 rear 32k Reese 5th wheel hitch
                              In the past: 22' Momentum 21G, 21' F150 XLT Screw 5.0 w 3.73, Andersen Hitch
                              Q7 Diesel, 22" Ozark THX 1900. 11' F350 Crew, King Ranch, 8' bed, dully, 08' Weekend Warrior LED 3505 triple axle 5th wheel. 04' F250 diesel, 05' Keystone tailgater with old Reese WD hitch, no sway control

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X