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303rls Kitchen Sink NO Water...Possible Freeze in Under Belly Piping?

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  • 303rls Kitchen Sink NO Water...Possible Freeze in Under Belly Piping?

    Hello everyone and happy holidays!

    Temps in W NC hit 9deg last night & woke up to no water (hot or cold) at kitchen sink, but shower, toilet & bathroom sink working fine.
    Had furnace running all night, tank heaters on and we have a heated fresh water supply hose.

    Checked faucet for clogs, loosened cold & hot lines under kitchen sink & no water, so suspect we have a "frozen" area somewhere below the sink.

    I can't find any diagrams on how the water line distribution system is constructed...anybody have any diagrams or knowledge of how this system is plumbed?

    Have heat directed down into belly under the sink where water lines run w a space heater and/or hair dryer on low (testing them to see what works better), but no joy.

    Any idea on how I isolate/determine where the freeze might be? Is that even possible or is applying heat to the area our only viable option?

    Am I missing anything?

    Thanks for any help you can offer and Merry Christmas.

    Matt
    Sadie & Matt
    (w/ 2d Mate Toby the traveling tabby)
    2021 303 RLS
    2020 Ram 2500 CC 4X4 w/6.7L Cummins
    Andersen Ultimate Hitch

  • #2
    Matt, With my limited knowledge the plumbing is routed as such:

    Incoming water goes through the nautilus panel
    From threat's split out to the HWH and cold supply lines (all of these are in the basement so freezing is much less likely).
    Somewhere under the shower there is a tee that splits the supply lines. From this split there is another split. One of the splits feeds the bathroom sink, the other the kitchen.
    The kitchen split drops out of the basement into the abyss of the underbelly where it has to run between the tanks and then up into the island.

    My guess is the line is frozen between the fresh water tank and the grey water tank from the kitchen.

    You are on the right track in trying to heat the underbelly, however it's a hard task as it's almost an enclosed space. You may need to block the air flow under the camper if possible to help minimize the cooling effects of the moving air.
    Joseph
    Tow
    Vehicle: 2024 GMC K3500 Denali Ultimate Diesel
    Coach: 303RLS Delivered March 5, 2021
    South of Houston Texas

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Jlawles2 View Post
      Matt, With my limited knowledge the plumbing is routed as such:

      Incoming water goes through the nautilus panel
      From threat's split out to the HWH and cold supply lines (all of these are in the basement so freezing is much less likely).
      Somewhere under the shower there is a tee that splits the supply lines. From this split there is another split. One of the splits feeds the bathroom sink, the other the kitchen.
      The kitchen split drops out of the basement into the abyss of the underbelly where it has to run between the tanks and then up into the island.

      My guess is the line is frozen between the fresh water tank and the grey water tank from the kitchen.

      You are on the right track in trying to heat the underbelly, however it's a hard task as it's almost an enclosed space. You may need to block the air flow under the camper if possible to help minimize the cooling effects of the moving air.
      Thanks Joseph...that's helpful in better understanding how the plumbing is laid out.

      We have good heat flowing from island vents (well as good as the small duct can provide, but it doesn't appear restricted) so hoping the "extra" heat we are sending down the piping toward the tank area will eventually help. It is a balmy 71deg in the 5er though...furnace works great

      Sadie & Matt
      (w/ 2d Mate Toby the traveling tabby)
      2021 303 RLS
      2020 Ram 2500 CC 4X4 w/6.7L Cummins
      Andersen Ultimate Hitch

      Comment


      • #4
        Unfortunately I do not think the vent under the island is the same as the heat supply under the unit.

        One other place to work is the exposed 2 low point drains under the basement. These are know to freeze and thus carry the cold up into the water lines resulting in an ice blockage. I forget about those 2 lines being a know issue. If you have water flow there, it may help in getting flow to the kitchen.
        Joseph
        Tow
        Vehicle: 2024 GMC K3500 Denali Ultimate Diesel
        Coach: 303RLS Delivered March 5, 2021
        South of Houston Texas

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Matt,

          The water lines to the kitchen island and from the water tank to the pump run along the inside of the left frame rail. These lines also include the low point drains and this is the most likely place for freezing to start. See other current threads on insulating these drain points. Underbelly heating is by way of a single 2" flexible duct that has two T openings in the gate valve area and then continues down the left frame rail to the water tank area. (see attached picture) There is not much airflow left by the time it gets to the area under the island and if the ductwork is twisted or crushed (not uncommon) there will be even less.

          On my 303, I have added insulation and even electric underbelly heat. See this thread. https://gdrvowners.com/forum/exterio...eel-underbelly

          Rob

          Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCF6858.jpg
Views:	307
Size:	236.5 KB
ID:	101855
          Cate & Rob
          (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
          2015 Reflection 303RLS
          2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
          Bayham, Ontario, Canada

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Jlawles2 View Post
            Unfortunately I do not think the vent under the island is the same as the heat supply under the unit.

            One other place to work is the exposed 2 low point drains under the basement. These are know to freeze and thus carry the cold up into the water lines resulting in an ice blockage. I forget about those 2 lines being a know issue. If you have water flow there, it may help in getting flow to the kitchen.
            I too forgot about those and yes, they were frozen.
            They are insulated and taped up now. Thanks for the reminder!
            Sadie & Matt
            (w/ 2d Mate Toby the traveling tabby)
            2021 303 RLS
            2020 Ram 2500 CC 4X4 w/6.7L Cummins
            Andersen Ultimate Hitch

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post
              Hi Matt,

              The water lines to the kitchen island and from the water tank to the pump run along the inside of the left frame rail. These lines also include the low point drains and this is the most likely place for freezing to start. See other current threads on insulating these drain points. Underbelly heating is by way of a single 2" flexible duct that has two T openings in the gate valve area and then continues down the left frame rail to the water tank area. (see attached picture) There is not much airflow left by the time it gets to the area under the island and if the ductwork is twisted or crushed (not uncommon) there will be even less.

              On my 303, I have added insulation and even electric underbelly heat. See this thread. https://gdrvowners.com/forum/exterio...eel-underbelly

              Rob

              Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCF6858.jpg
Views:	307
Size:	236.5 KB
ID:	101855
              Hi Rob,
              Hope this email finds you & Cate enjoying the warmer temps in FL!!

              Thank you for the info and picture.
              After an hour of heat directed down from under the sink we now have a small trickle...so I suspect with time we will have full water flow returned.

              Trick now will be to keep it from freezing again as the next 2 full days are blowing freezing & into the low teens.

              If we weren't starting construction on our new home on Tues, we'd be in Florida for sure, lol.

              Thanks and hope you have a safe & Merry Christmas & Happy New Year.
              Matt
              Sadie & Matt
              (w/ 2d Mate Toby the traveling tabby)
              2021 303 RLS
              2020 Ram 2500 CC 4X4 w/6.7L Cummins
              Andersen Ultimate Hitch

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi Matt,

                To get past a short duration freeze, you might try filling the galley grey tank with hot water as a source of warmth in the area where the water lines seem to be freezing. Drain the galley grey tank, put the water heater on both electric and gas, and fill the tank with hot water from the galley faucet before temps begin to drop. (This assumes that you are on a FHU site with city water connected) Also a good idea to insulate the low point drains.

                Yes . . . we are in Florida . . . where it is cold (by Florida standards) but nothing like what is happening to the north.

                Rob
                Cate & Rob
                (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
                2015 Reflection 303RLS
                2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                Bayham, Ontario, Canada

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post
                  Hi Matt,

                  To get past a short duration freeze, you might try filling the galley grey tank with hot water as a source of warmth in the area where the water lines seem to be freezing. Drain the galley grey tank, put the water heater on both electric and gas, and fill the tank with hot water from the galley faucet before temps begin to drop. (This assumes that you are on a FHU site with city water connected) Also a good idea to insulate the low point drains.

                  Yes . . . we are in Florida . . . where it is cold (by Florida standards) but nothing like what is happening to the north.

                  Rob
                  Excellent idea Rob, thank you! Yes, already insulated low point drains, thanks to reminder from Jlawles2 earlier today. Cant believe I forgot about those.
                  We have our RV on our property with FHU so using hot water is not an issue.

                  Construction starts on our forever home Tues, so this will be the one and only winter we spend in an rv with below 32deg weather, that's for sure!

                  Thanks for the help.
                  Sadie & Matt
                  (w/ 2d Mate Toby the traveling tabby)
                  2021 303 RLS
                  2020 Ram 2500 CC 4X4 w/6.7L Cummins
                  Andersen Ultimate Hitch

                  Comment

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