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  • Black tank flush mishap

    OK, so I did something today I have avoided for a couple years now, but suspected one day I'd do it. I was sure one day I'd do it, and today I did it on my brand new 395MS-R! First time emptying and flushing the front black tank. Decided to fill it so that I could rinse it good. Well, instead of monitoring it I decided to get sidetracked. A few mins later I noticed a stench that shouldn't have been there. Yup, I let it overflow! Sheeeiiiit! Well, I pulled the valve and got it emptied. Took this as an opportunity to remove the back wall in my very tiny basement (wow, discovered there is TONS more room there than GD allotted me!) to inspect. I did have some water behind the wall, although not a lot (maybe a quart if I had to estimate) and it wasn't as bad as I'd thought. I do not know where the water came out though, I only saw a very tiny bit on top of the black tank where the front toilet connects, so it wasn't coming from there (although that make me wonder if that connection was sealed well).

    Where do you all think it would have come out? I also slightly dropped the underbelly but didn't see anything coming out, so I don't think it got too far.

    Do you think I have anything to worry about?

    Lesson learned though, when flushing the tanks that's the task at hand, NOTHING else!

    Randy

  • #2
    Randy - I have seen this story quite a few times, so you're not the only one.

    There is a rubber gasket at the top of the tank that the pipes push into. It is possible that where was enough water pressure to squeak some liquid past that rubber seal and onto the top of the tank. What usually happens is that the person walks away and totally forgets and doesn't catch it for a few hours. In that case, the slurry of pooh, paper, water, chemicals and junior's chewing gum fill up the tank, then migrate up the vent pipe and pumps out on the roof of the RV, down the side, and into the neighbors lot while they are enjoying a BBQ.

    Edit: BTW, when I'm doing a fill and flush, I start a three minute timer on my phone to give me an audible signal for when the neighbor lady distracts me.

    Jim
    Jim and Ginnie
    2024 Solitude 310GK
    GDRV Technical Forum Moderator
    GDRV Rally Support Coordinator

    Comment


    • #3
      Jim,

      Well, luckily the tank was emptied and rinsed a bit before with the valve open before I had decided to "fill 'er up"! So, most of the really bad stuff was already gone and I suspect what came out was just nasty, mostly clear to brownish water anyway. I "think" I caught it before it went too bad. I didn't have anything come up the toilet (which I found surprising to be honest). There was some water sitting on the "basement" floor (that's the quart I spoke of in the original post), so I'm just at a loss where that came from.

      I dried things up and let it air out for a few hours, so I think for now I'm good. I guess I'll see if there's any issues next time the black tank gets full. I really don't think there will be (really hopeful anyway), but not knowing where that water came from is bothering me.

      Randy

      Comment


      • #4
        You do have insulation in the under belly that may have absorbed the water and it never made it to the coroplast under belly cover, you may need to do a little more checking there.

        Brian
        Brian & Michelle
        2018 Reflection 29RS
        2022 Chevy 3500HD

        Comment


        • #5
          The story about the tank contents coming out the roof vent is only going to happen if that vent is only connected to that one black tank. In most RV systems, the black and grey tank vents connect to a single roof vent. So, if you filled the black tank enough for the contents to rise up the vent pipe, this is going to spill over into a grey tank vent pipe, before it gets to the roof, and fill one or more of the grey tanks. The outlet will be the lowest point. Likely the kitchen sink or the shower drain.

          Rob
          Cate & Rob
          (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
          2015 Reflection 303RLS
          2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
          Bayham, Ontario, Canada

          Comment


          • #6
            Just a note to prevent a mishap in the future, invest in a $20 water meter. Because water pressure is different at different rv parks, I run 10 gallons I to my black tank when I get to. New Rv park and time how long it takes so I can set a timer on my watch so I’ll know how long it will take to fill up the black tank to flush. I have one for city water and one for black tank. They make one water meter (sav-a-drop). They come in two colors (one green and another blue and white) so you don’t cross contaminate.

            Here’s an Amazon link for both….$19 and $23

            https://www.amazon.com/SAVE-WATER-ME...s%2C102&sr=8-3

            https://www.amazon.com/P3-Measure-Ga...ps%2C99&sr=8-1
            Eddie & Kathy
            2021 Imagine 2970RL
            2019 Ram 2500 Laramie Mega Cab 4x4 Cummins 6.7L
            Houston, TX

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post
              The story about the tank contents coming out the roof vent is only going to happen if that vent is only connected to that one black tank. In most RV systems, the black and grey tank vents connect to a single roof vent. So, if you filled the black tank enough for the contents to rise up the vent pipe, this is going to spill over into a grey tank vent pipe, before it gets to the roof, and fill one or more of the grey tanks. The outlet will be the lowest point. Likely the kitchen sink or the shower drain.

              Rob
              Cate&Rob - Your comment prompted me to pull the drawing on the 395MS. The front tank is a combined tank which collects the front toilet, sink, and laundry. And it has a single vent pipe to the roof. So here is my hypothesis.

              The overflow traveled up the different penetrations until it found the lowest point of escape. My guess is that point was the AAV on the bathroom sink. Some liquid spilled out the AAV and ran down the pipe into the "basement" where it pooled up.

              GrandRandy - Can you be a little more specific about where you found the liquid? You say you found it in the basement which most of us define as being in the front of the RV. Was the liquid in the back of the RV near the fuel tanks (if equipped)? If it was in the front basement, that may be from another source.
              Jim
              Jim and Ginnie
              2024 Solitude 310GK
              GDRV Technical Forum Moderator
              GDRV Rally Support Coordinator

              Comment


              • #8
                TucsonJim

                It is possible that a failed AAV is part of this, but more likely is the grommet around either the inlet from the toilet or the vent pipe. These are not intended to be “pressure” seals. By the time liquid reached the AAV it would be filling the sink.

                Rob
                Cate & Rob
                (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
                2015 Reflection 303RLS
                2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                Bayham, Ontario, Canada

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ebkent62 View Post
                  I have one for city water and one for black tank. They make one water meter (sav-a-drop). They come in two colors (one green and another blue and white) so you don’t cross contaminate.]
                  Just as a point of clarification . . . the black tank flush (if used properly) is not a contaminated connection (unless you have attached to a contaminated dump station hose). The vacuum break in the black tank flush line separates the black tank from the water supply. Leaving a second hose attached to the black tank flush (which you can observe many times in any campground) is just asking for trouble. A hose should only be connected to the flush connection while flushing and should be disconnected when done, to allow the vacuum break to function properly. Using a single hose from the campground supply to the trailer is the best way to never make a mistake.

                  Rob
                  Cate & Rob
                  (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
                  2015 Reflection 303RLS
                  2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                  Bayham, Ontario, Canada

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by TucsonJim View Post

                    Cate&Rob - Your comment prompted me to pull the drawing on the 395MS. The front tank is a combined tank which collects the front toilet, sink, and laundry. And it has a single vent pipe to the roof. So here is my hypothesis.

                    The overflow traveled up the different penetrations until it found the lowest point of escape. My guess is that point was the AAV on the bathroom sink. Some liquid spilled out the AAV and ran down the pipe into the "basement" where it pooled up.

                    GrandRandy - Can you be a little more specific about where you found the liquid? You say you found it in the basement which most of us define as being in the front of the RV. Was the liquid in the back of the RV near the fuel tanks (if equipped)? If it was in the front basement, that may be from another source.
                    Jim
                    So, front of the rig, is the part nearest the front cap, hitch. The front black tank in the Momentum 395MS-R is, as far as I know, NOT a combined tank. I believe you are talking about the REAR tank, which is combined toilet, sink, and laundry which are all located in the rear garage portion of the rig. I was not flushing that tank, I was flushing the front tank, which is only (as far as I understand) servicing the front toilet.

                    When this all happened I did not get anything coming out of anywhere inside the rig (toilet, sinks, shower, etc). When I realized what I had done I rushed and pulled the valve so it would rush out the sewer pipe and I went in the house. There was no indication that anything had gone wrong except a slight odor, but nothing too drastic. A also did not get anything coming out of any vents on the roof or anything.

                    As an update today, I did pull the corner of the coraplast on the underbelly down and I did in fact get some water come out...I'd say no more than 1 to 1.5 gallons (max). I can't pull the coraplast all the way down due to other pipes (generator exhaust and so forth. Plus, I'm a one man show and would need some help getting it backup there if I pull too much down. Add to it that we're getting some bad weather coming in tonight and I don't want to pull it all the way down right now. Now, I did the "push test" and it feels like there may be a bit more water up in there, but not a huge amount. Also, all of this seems to be limited to the front half of the coraplast, the back half seems pretty lightweight. I'm thinking the insulation is probably wet in the front half.

                    I'm planning to call a mobile tech to have them come take a look. But I doubt it'll happen for a few days due to the weather. So, any continued insight would be appreciated.

                    Hope that helped clarify.
                    Thanks,
                    Randy



                    Comment


                    • #11
                      My reading comprehension stinks... I thought I read rear tank. I'm still thinking that there was no permanent damage done. As Cate&Rob mentioned, the grommet probably just leaked a little allowing that gallon or so to gather on top of the black tank.

                      Jim
                      Jim and Ginnie
                      2024 Solitude 310GK
                      GDRV Technical Forum Moderator
                      GDRV Rally Support Coordinator

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by TucsonJim View Post
                        My reading comprehension stinks... I thought I read rear tank. I'm still thinking that there was no permanent damage done. As Cate&Rob mentioned, the grommet probably just leaked a little allowing that gallon or so to gather on top of the black tank.

                        Jim
                        Haha! My writing might stink as well! But yes, I suspect you are correct that it came out of the grommet on top of the tank where the toilet pipe goes in. Although I would have thought that's sealed, but maybe the seal failed? In which case it's not really a "grommet" is it? I'm not a plumber, so I could be talking out of my ash. :-) But, I think having a tech come out and drop the entire front, inspect things, and replace the insulation can't hurt anything but my wallet.

                        BTW, you mentioned you "pull the drawing on the 395MS", how did you pull the drawings? Is that something I can do too? Or do you have a special dealer account that allows you to see build schematics and so forth?

                        Thanks again!
                        Randy

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by GrandRandy View Post

                          Haha! My writing might stink as well! But yes, I suspect you are correct that it came out of the grommet on top of the tank where the toilet pipe goes in. Although I would have thought that's sealed, but maybe the seal failed? In which case it's not really a "grommet" is it? I'm not a plumber, so I could be talking out of my ash. :-) But, I think having a tech come out and drop the entire front, inspect things, and replace the insulation can't hurt anything but my wallet.

                          BTW, you mentioned you "pull the drawing on the 395MS", how did you pull the drawings? Is that something I can do too? Or do you have a special dealer account that allows you to see build schematics and so forth?

                          Thanks again!
                          Randy
                          The only wallet we're notorious for draining is Keith's. Right Yoda ?

                          The moderators have access to several drawings for most units. We can look at them and send small snippets of a drawing to owners. But if you want a full drawing, you need to get that directly from GDRV with the caveat you can't post it on the internet due to proprietary reasons.

                          Jim

                          Jim and Ginnie
                          2024 Solitude 310GK
                          GDRV Technical Forum Moderator
                          GDRV Rally Support Coordinator

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by TucsonJim View Post

                            The only wallet we're notorious for draining is Keith's. Right Yoda ?

                            The moderators have access to several drawings for most units. We can look at them and send small snippets of a drawing to owners. But if you want a full drawing, you need to get that directly from GDRV with the caveat you can't post it on the internet due to proprietary reasons.

                            Jim
                            $$=
                            2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th whee, Star White 2022 F350 King Ranch CC Long bed (HAL) (CCC 4062lbs), B&W 25K OEM Companion,. SteadyFast system, Trailer reverse lights, rear receiver spare tire holder, storage tube, sumo springs, Victron MultiPlus 12/120/3000, Solar, Custom 6K axles upgrade, and other modifications.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The concern with Momentum and Solitude is the layer of fibreglass insulation laying directly on top of the coroplast. (Reflection and smaller units do not have this.) This insulation can act like a giant sponge absorbing a lot of water. If this insulation is wet, it almost always needs to be replaced.

                              Rob
                              Cate & Rob
                              (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
                              2015 Reflection 303RLS
                              2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                              Bayham, Ontario, Canada

                              Comment

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