Fresh Water Tank Reinforcement - 220RK

[Yoda]

Well the last project before putting the new axles in is going OK

First a bit of history
Issue one is I always seamed to not get all of the water out of the tank using the pump.
Issue two as previously reported, I found the tank could slide around a lot on the rails - free to bounce about 1/2" and fo and aft movement up to 4" only restrained by frame rails and plumbing fittings hitting the wiring. I found the tank badly bowed in the center (issue one) and the movement had bowed one of the side support rails - the one that is removable that appears to be a 1.5" C channel.

So I decided to add some 3" padded strapping to help support and constrain the C channel. The other side is supported by a C channel welded to a cross brace


Strapping plate is 1/8" steel, painted and 1/4" rubber foam bonded to it. the rubber foam came out of one of thier locking rubber floor mats. Thought was to reduce any abrading between the strapping and the tank. Second picture is I glued 2" rigid foam to the inside of the frame for the tank to bounce against. It used to slide all the way to the frame web. This also adds freeze protection. Iused glue specifically for foam - what a mess to work with as the stuff runs. Easy to clean though, just let it dry and rub /peal it off the hands.


This is the padding against the cross member that has the tank frame welded to it. Tank is fully seated into that frame that is welded to the cross member - gap is 2", but no equal as I discovered, thus the thinning shim forward. It should be noted that two of the frame cracks where this member was welded to the web.



These are the 2" by 6" blocking glued to the floor to restrain movement on the other end (one each side). I have a good 1.25" of end bearing. The white foam was a bit if padding on one end. The blue stuff is that dripping foam glue.

More to come Keith

[Yoda]

Now for the removable cross member on the side of the tank to the front. I found it bowed out almost 3/8" or more before I started the work. I discovered it when doing the previous inspection and pictures. I think I mentioned it in my underbelly of a 220RK thread. Tank dimensions are in another thread too.


To bow it back I cut a brace and piece of wood to fit inside the channel. All the force is to the inside of the channel and supported by a nearby cross beam. Yes I have over bowed it in by about 1/4". I did this on purpose as after the traps are installed I expect it to set back slightly. When done I plan to black foam the gap between the tank and this support channel, both to prevent sideways movement and hopefully restrict for aft movement - sort of glue it in place. The foam can be removed if tank maintenance is ever needed. Same for the foam glue if interested - can be separated with a putty knife - dont ask how I learned that Note the temporary brace is centered on the beam opposite the tank center hole.



Strapping locations. I plan to place 2 3" padded straps at the third points. One will be right at the end of the molded in trough between that point and the center hole. The other will be at the same point beyond the hole. I may have to shim the removable channel end location on the valve end as the tank gets deeper then the side channel there, . If necessary I may need to add foam shimming to bow the tank back to the OEM conditions before it sagged. If needed I will cut the shims out of high density foam using my compound miter saw and table saw..BTW - Stain on tank is from condensation against the coroplast in it original position. With the new sub framing I will have 1" rigid foam full length of trailer.

To install the straps I am going to build a jig to fit on my floor jack to hold it in place while drilling holes and push tank floor into position before final bolt tightening. I have plenty of wood scraps around for that.

I'll post photos of that and the final strap install.

If you spot anything please speak up
Thanks for your help
Keith

[Yoda]

Well its done. My brother was here for a visit so I made him earn his keep today, Only cost me steak and crab. He was on he way to Oregon
from Tucson and made a slight detour to see me

Tanks is 5 feet long so I placed a strap at the midpoint between the center hole and each end

First I built a gig to fit my small floor jack to hold the straps against the tank as I drilled. This also compress the tank belly back to OEM position. In thus photo I am working on the second strap placed just outside the outlet channel. I will use this jig later to hold insulation up and finally the coroplast.


Door side brace. Brace is 3" wide by 1/8" thick. Instead or the thick foam I remover it and use a scrap of 45 mill PVC reinforced pond liner material. Bolts are 5/56 grade 8 (what I had on hand) with washer both side, lock washer, and nylon lock nut. Left photo connection on the welded in place cross beam side, and right is removable cross brace. I used two home made 1/4" aluminum shims to keep from compressing the tank sidewall. Once in place I can still get fingers under the center of the strap, but I think all is good.



Outlet side brace. Left photo is of the welded cross beam connection. Right side is on the removable cross brace. As the tank has a constant slopr this required 3/4" of shims using 3- 1/4" fabricated shims. Again I paid attention to not crushing the tank side. Once in place the tank belly seemed to settle in place. There is a bit of room between tank and center of strap, but again I think I have probably 95% of the belly sage out. Now what are the straps long? Believe it or not the cut lingth is from a tape measure pulled acraoo the tan belly between the two frames. That extra is a good 1.5"

Before putting in the second strap I remover the wedge holding the side channel in place (post 2) The side channel moved just a little back, so I was able to get then bend out


More to come

[Yoda]

With the final strap in place the tanks is pretty much bulge free and siting snug. The second strap is just above out of the picture, Notice very little sag in the strapping. The jig made that possible. The last thing I did was foamed the gap between the tank and the removable cross brace (GD OEM flexible Black foam sealant)

That's my brother in the background giving everything one last going over. I wore him out

Questions? Ask away
Keith

[Yoda]

Just double checking if I missed anything, or should re do something. Getting ready to put the axles back and I loose the ability to easily reach most of this.

Thanks
Keith

[Jlawles2]

Looks good. Too bad they don't do such good work at the factory.

If need be, shoot some expanding foam between the strap and the tank. This will pre flex the tank upward for when it gets loaded and sags the strap.

[Yoda]

Looks good. Too bad they don't do such good work at the factory.

If need be, shoot some expanding foam between the strap and the tank. This will pre flex the tank upward for when it gets loaded and sags the strap.

Joseph
Before I button things up I am going to fill it (after axles are in) and check everything under load. I am concerned with the lower fitting that has slid back and forth for years. It was kinked at first and is somewhat lose. I think it is 1/2 PEX by 1/2 NTP, but not sure. I am going to tale it out and replace with brass,. Just not sure what clamp to use.


As you can see the tank is somewhat compressed around it.

While it is hard to see it runs over the the black tank piping making it susceptible to freezing,. My plan is to route it under the black piping. The other red and bule go to the low point drains. I need to think how to insulate these, or possible move then - need to sleep on it.
Thoughts?
Keith

[Jlawles2]

Dumb question, but let me ask anyway. If you route the pex piping UNDER the BLACK lines it will put it closer to the Coroplast and COLD environment, correct? Thus routing it over will lift it off the coroplast and help protect it from freezing.

There is a dual issue with insulating some pipes. Yes Insulation keeps cold out, but once they freeze, it keeps heat out. Double edged sword there. For insulation, POOL NOODLES..... Big Bulky, great insulation value, can be cheaper than pipe insulation, and best of all they can work as big foam buffers for filling the gaps around your tanks.

Most of the fittings into plastic tanks I have seen are NPT. I do suggest you use liquid pipe thread sealant vs tape as the liquid is a bit more forgiving in not damaging the plastic threads in the tank.

[Yoda]

Dumb question, but let me ask anyway. If you route the pex piping UNDER the BLACK lines it will put it closer to the Coroplast and COLD environment, correct? Thus routing it over will lift it off the coroplast and help protect it from freezing.

There is a dual issue with insulating some pipes. Yes Insulation keeps cold out, but once they freeze, it keeps heat out. Double edged sword there. For insulation, POOL NOODLES..... Big Bulky, great insulation value, can be cheaper than pipe insulation, and best of all they can work as big foam buffers for filling the gaps around your tanks.

Most of the fittings into plastic tanks I have seen are NPT. I do suggest you use liquid pipe thread sealant vs tape as the liquid is a bit more forgiving in not damaging the plastic threads in the tank.

I think I understand your question. The fill/suction pipe (pex blue) is on the coroplast side of the sewer line and rests current;y directly against the coroplast. I am installing 1" rigid closed cell foam board between my new sub frame rails spanning side to side. Got the idea from Rob Cate&Rob and others. If I move the pipe it will be under the foam board in the heated belly. As it is it will be outside the foam board where it crosses the sewer lone. The low point drains are the same way and if I move those, I don't think they will be the low point anymore, but close. I need to look at that some more.

Thanks for the tip on the liquid pipe thread - need to get a new bottle as I use that stuff on a lot of my irrigation pipes. I think I get more on me than the pipe threads though

Now to make it easy on me do I go to shark-bite fittings. Ie cut, move and insert - done

Keith

[acoleman43]

Yoda you have starting me thinking about doing the same thing. THanks a lot :(

Maybe I will stop by your place and have you help me with it

[Yoda]

TucsonJim howson Cate&Rob and others

Grrrrrrrrr the dark side is upon me and I am Pex perplexed (say that 10 times real fast) I got looking deeper into relocating the water lines at the water tank and found the hot cold from the low point drain to the rear also interfere with the rear gray ans any insulation I want t install

So after reading all I could on the pex plumbing tips here I have a couple of question.

I believe thi is the correct fitting for the tank location https://www.homedepot.com/p/Apollo-1...541102#overlay

However which pex clamp is best to use
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Apollo-1...10PK/301541069 standard I have used before
or what called the pro version.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Apollo-1...10PK/305483778

Do I need the tool???? https://www.homedepot.com/p/Apollo-3...921125#overlay I already have these https://www.homedepot.com/p/KNIPEX-8...i220/303558267 i use on the poly irrigation tubing clamp rings.

Should I used brass Pex B barb fitting and the proper rings, or possibly shark bite which are much more expensive. Will I see reduced flow over the plastic barb fittings?

How do I verify I have Pex B pipe - marking are very hard to read

So this is what I am up to
first replace the plastic fitting into the tank with a brass Pex B barb fitting

That blue pipe is the 1/2" running over the sewer pipe. When I reconnect it will be above the sewer pipe running parallel to the tank end. I think I have enough slack to do it.
Ignore the top 3/4 pex as that is my overflow extension - need to redo that too.

Befor proceding next I will be pulling the pass through wall to verify the plumbing runs up from the low point drains.
Second the low point drains and the hot and cold piping from them run to the rear kitchen. I want to cut and position theses above the sewer pipe as well as theses will be directly against the coroplast with no insulation. I will need to lengthen theses runs to also clear the end of the water tank and the rear gray tank.. If lengthen I think they will bend around the end of the water tank to the low point drains when done. If not I can add 90's


The hot/cold that run to the rear kitchen run over the fresh water tank, through the cross member openings and them over the rear gray, before heading up into the kitchen. I can move them to the end of the gray tank above the outlet piping if I lengthen them.. I am hoping there is enough flexibility that if disconnected at the low point drains I can pull them back to the rear and re thread them through the cross members, then add to the end to reconnect.

Am I nuts for doing this? Does this all make sense. I just want to get the water lines up and above the rigid insulation I want to place.

Sorry for all the questions. I am literally going nuts over the stuff I need to move before the axles go in. Don't even get me stated on the wiring - I may just leave the Scotch connectors in place.

Keith

[TedS]

You should use the specific cinch tool to consistently get the correct cinch. The pex is most likely pex-b.

[howson]

Yoda -- I defer to Rob ( Cate&Rob ) for plumbing issues. His Reference Library posts on the topic have a lot of information in them regarding the proper tools. Check out the PDF attached to https://gdrvowners.com/forum/operati...lection-303rls

Howard

[Cate&Rob]

Yoda . . . WOW Keith, that’s a lot of info . . . slow down LOL!

Back to basics. Standard Pex pipe, fittings and clamp rings are simple and the least expensive alternative. You do need a good crimper designed for 1/2” Pex. Adding elbows to route around things does not introduce as much restriction as you would expect. I routed lines around the path I need to keep clear for eventual furnace removal. I was expecting flow restriction in a run that now has 4 elbows where previously there were none. No noticeable flow restriction . . . I can’t really explain why.

I will add that I am not a fan of sharkbite fittings. Stupidly expensive and (in my experience) more likely to leak than a simple crimp ring Pex pipe connection.

Rob

[TedS]

At 2 gpm, pressure loss through the elbow will be around 0.25 psi(about 4 feet of pex), not too significant in 55 psi flow.