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2017 Momentum 376 Holding Tank Location and Tank Heater Amps

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  • 2017 Momentum 376 Holding Tank Location and Tank Heater Amps

    Well if you play in a deep freeze long enough you are bound to get chilly. Went to dump today, the handle for the shower/bathroom sink will not pull. I am a little hesitant to try to force it. Kitchen sink and black water pull fine. I had something similar happen in a different brand 5th wheel, turned out the tank heater had failed. So, we are stuck in a snow bank for another week with subfreezing temps. Trying to develop an in place plan to keep things thawed until we can move again. So a couple of critical pieces of information will go a long way to helping me develop a plan.

    First question, where in the Momentum 376 is the tank that holds the water from the shower? What is the closest bay door to the tank?

    Next, the pull handle is on the driver side of the rear bay, as you open the bay the handles are mounted on the left. How is the shower drain cable run?

    I don't expect an answer for this next question, it just has too many what if's and conditions, but if I don't ask then I can't get pleasantly surprised with an answer, I know that whatever is said will totally be on me if I follow the advice. We are talking purely hypothetical best case scenario stuff. I will not hold anyone responsible for the answer. If I were to place additional heat in the Momentum 376 were would the optimal location be?

    Last helpful information data request; What is the amp draw on the tank heaters? Are there 3 of them? Are they laid under the tanks near the gate valve?

    I have a fancy meter on my battery for when I am boondocking, it measures the amps and W being used. With the converter off, the difference in amp draw with the tanker switch off vs on is 1.5 amps. I was kind of expecting 3-4.5 for 3-4 tanks with heaters.

    I haven't read all the rules for posting here, but feel comfortable enough with this forum to add some personal information in case you wish to respond more directly.

    Dallas Reid
    purchased Momentum 376TH from Tarpley RV in Durango CO April 1, 2017
    Yep, definitely out of warranty, ya'll don't owe me a thing, just hoping you are nice helpful folks, thanks in advance.
    S/N 573FM4330H204887
    phone 772-359-7832
    direct email address bigd2xr@gmail.com

    If anyone has any helpful info please speak up. I have about 2-3 days to get this resolved, if I can't dump I don't get to take a shower. If I don't take a shower my wife will make me sleep on the couch. After that, she will make me sleep outside, is was -2f this morning, I really don't want to sleep outside.
    Last edited by d2reid; 02-04-2020, 07:02 PM.
    2017 Momentum 376, 2019 Ford F450
    2022 Triumph Scrambler Motorcycle
    E-bikes, Hobi Pedal Kayaks
    Kota the dog and KC the Kitty Cat

  • #2
    Dallas - cant help you with most of your information, but if you put one of those portable tube heaters under the trailer (be sure it does not get the belly plastic too hot), I believe that would be the best place to thaw out the tanks, You can tarp around the skirt to keep the heat in.
    Hope this helps
    2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th whee, Star White 2022 F350 King Ranch CC Long bed (HAL) (CCC 4062lbs), B&W 25K OEM Companion,. SteadyFast system, Trailer reverse lights, rear receiver spare tire holder, storage tube, sumo springs, Victron MultiPlus 12/120/3000, Solar, Custom 6K axles upgrade, and other modifications.

    Comment


    • #3
      Some progress is made. I called GD and they gave me a diagram of the tank locations. Apparently it's the aft tank, the one that is most exposed. Location of the tank is such that removal of the underbelly is going to be required to get to it. Not something that is going to get done in the ice and snow. So I am hunting dealerships that may have an opening between Salt Lake City, Twin Falls, Boise, Yakima, and Kent, WA. We will enter warmer weather within a few days. But that won't fix the problem.

      Such is the life.

      Dallas
      2017 Momentum 376, 2019 Ford F450
      2022 Triumph Scrambler Motorcycle
      E-bikes, Hobi Pedal Kayaks
      Kota the dog and KC the Kitty Cat

      Comment


      • #4
        Cate&Rob -- any suggestions for Dallas? I seem to remember a thermostatically-controlled heater in your 303's underbelly? But that probably requires dropping the coroplast...which doesn't help Dallas at this point.
        Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

        2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

        Comment


        • #5
          Dallas, here’s a thought that might help. Between the second and third axle on the driver side I would open in the Coraplas or make an opening by cutting an opening. Then somehow rig up a way to blow hot air into the underbelly. That tank and the valve has to be in that location and also the dump valve would be on the driver side.

          Just some thoughts I have been sitting here thinking about it since we have the same unit. Hope you come up with a solution. Good luck.
          2018 Momentum 376TH
          2016 RAM 3500 Duall
          y

          Comment


          • #6
            d2reid Hi Dallas,

            This is not an immediate solution for your current problem . . . because it requires dropping the coroplast . . . but, this a way to introduce a significant amount of electric underbelly heating.

            In Canada, 120V car warmers are fairly common. I don't know if this is true in the US or not. I started with a 900W one of these and fastened it to the underside of the floor in the valve area between the tanks. As it turns out, the internal unit thermostat is a "safety" set well over 100F and the underside of the floor above got way too hot.

            On to iteration 2 . . . I spaced an aluminum heat shield 1" below the floor and spaced the heater another 1/2" below that. Then, I added a residential wall thermostat in a corner of the space away from the heater and set it to 10C (50F). Then I mounted a wireless temperature monitor in another far corner of the space. I ran the system on a cool evening and then opened up the underbelly (I have opening doors in my coroplast) and took infrared temp measurements everywhere which showed that all components were well above freezing and nothing was too hot.

            I now run this system whenever we have shore power and the outside temp gets below freezing. The combination described above will hold the underbelly space at 10C (50F) +/- 2C down to -14C (7F) which is the coldest that we have experienced. I expect that we have capability to go colder.

            For your Momentum, you might want to install two of these systems. Front & Rear.

            Rob
            Attached Files
            Last edited by Cate&Rob; 02-05-2020, 06:56 PM.
            Cate & Rob
            (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
            2015 Reflection 303RLS
            2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
            Bayham, Ontario, Canada

            Comment


            • #7
              Both excellent suggestions. I have avoided digging into the coroplast. I looked at the way it is tacked in there and I don't believe my mechanicing skills will stand up to that task. It's going to work better if younger stronger people do this. I took some covers loose in he bay and found a pretty good size hole where the pipes drop down. I put the hair dryer on that for and hour, nothing. Pretty sure it's going to take coming in from the bottom.

              My plan; step one, as soon as this storm breaks we are going to start traveling to warmer weather.
              Step 2, I have an appointment with an RV dealer in Washington on the 10th - exploratory surgery.
              Between warmer weather and professional repair it will get fixed.

              Just so you know, I am my own worst enemy. Error 1, I didn't put the skirt up. We were sub-zero in Breck for over a week without trouble, skirt was up. Error 2, I had to fly back to Houston to check on my mom, in my haste to get out the door to the airport I forgot to close the bay door after dumping so DW would have no issues while I was gone. 2 nights single digit, frozen. Got the bay door closed but the damage was done.

              I appreciate the suggestion of the extra heaters Rob, but if I would have just followed my original plan and not gotten lazy I think we would have been fine, plus the open bay door trick.

              This is part of the way we live, we don't like this part, but we are rolling with it.
              2017 Momentum 376, 2019 Ford F450
              2022 Triumph Scrambler Motorcycle
              E-bikes, Hobi Pedal Kayaks
              Kota the dog and KC the Kitty Cat

              Comment


              • #8
                d2reid -- moved this thread to the Plumbing channel as I don't believe there is anything for Grand Design can provide in this thread. If I'm wrong, I can move it back if desired. -Howard
                Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

                Comment


                • #9
                  d2reid - Dallas - here in the frozen plains various types of situations come up in the winter. I recall seeing many times over the years farmers and business owners using Nipco kerosene heaters at safe distances blowing hot to warm air on what ever needs "thawing" My father in law seemed to be caught every so often with gelling diesel fuel in some tractors and frozen water lines/tanks/etc. Blowing warm to hot air at proper distances depending on the surface did wonders.

                  Dan
                  Dan & Carol
                  2014 303RLS Reflection #185 (10/2013 build)
                  2012 Silverado LTZ Crew Duramax 2500HD - 2700/16K Pullrite Superglide

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Good morning Dallas. I have the print package for your trailer and there is a conflict between two drawings regarding the location of the holding tanks. The drawing labeled "Holding Tank Layout" shows all three holding tanks are located directly under the bathroom in the following order (Front to Back) - Gray 2, Black, Gray. But the drawing labeled 'DWV Plan" shows them in the following order (Front to Back) - Gray, Gray, Black.

                    Maybe howson , Cate&Rob, or Country Campers can take a look at the drawings too and see if I'm missing something.

                    Jim
                    Jim and Ginnie
                    2024 Solitude 310GK
                    GDRV Technical Forum Moderator
                    GDRV Rally Support Coordinator

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by TucsonJim View Post
                      Good morning Dallas. I have the print package for your trailer and there is a conflict between two drawings regarding the location of the holding tanks. The drawing labeled "Holding Tank Layout" shows all three holding tanks are located directly under the bathroom in the following order (Front to Back) - Gray 2, Black, Gray. But the drawing labeled 'DWV Plan" shows them in the following order (Front to Back) - Gray, Gray, Black.

                      Maybe howson , Cate&Rob, or Country Campers can take a look at the drawings too and see if I'm missing something.

                      Jim
                      I saw the same thing, Jim. Dallas will have to peak under the coroplast to know for sure what he's got.
                      Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                      2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Howson, good move.

                        TucsonJim, GD did respond to me via PM. The drawings didn't agree. But applying some simple logic I am pretty sure it's kitchen gray forward, black middle, bathroom gray aft. Anything else would require long runs of pipes, this configuration is pretty much a straight drop into the appropriate tank. Won't know for sure till I get inside the coroplast.

                        Canyonlight thanks for the tip. As soon as this storm breaks we are going to run some 40f+ air across the whole thing as we take a couple of days to drive up to the Seattle area where we will sit until it either thaws out or a repair facility will take us in.

                        I thought about dragging the skirt out and putting it up, then putting a fair size electric heater under the skirt. A risk is the propane, but I deem it a very small risk. Unfortunately a big portion of the skirt is in the garage, I am back up to a huge snow bank and would have to hitch up and pull out to open it. I know, I am just being lazy. We should be able to pull out tomorrow and be above freezing by noon.

                        Thanks for all the great advice.

                        2017 Momentum 376, 2019 Ford F450
                        2022 Triumph Scrambler Motorcycle
                        E-bikes, Hobi Pedal Kayaks
                        Kota the dog and KC the Kitty Cat

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Last note, it warmed up to just above freezing today. The valve released the tank dumped. We will be above freezing until I can get it to the shop on Monday. Only 850 miles to go.

                          Thanks for all the help.
                          2017 Momentum 376, 2019 Ford F450
                          2022 Triumph Scrambler Motorcycle
                          E-bikes, Hobi Pedal Kayaks
                          Kota the dog and KC the Kitty Cat

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post
                            d2reid Hi Dallas,

                            This is not an immediate solution for your current problem . . . because it requires dropping the coroplast . . . but, this a way to introduce a significant amount of electric underbelly heating.

                            In Canada, 120V car warmers are fairly common. I don't know if this is true in the US or not. I started with a 900W one of these and fastened it to the underside of the floor in the valve area between the tanks. As it turns out, the internal unit thermostat is a "safety" set well over 100F and the underside of the floor above got way too hot.

                            On to iteration 2 . . . I spaced an aluminum heat shield 1" below the floor and spaced the heater another 1/2" below that. Then, I added a residential wall thermostat in a corner of the space away from the heater and set it to 10C (50F). Then I mounted a wireless temperature monitor in another far corner of the space. I ran the system on a cool evening and then opened up the underbelly (I have opening doors in my coroplast) and took infrared temp measurements everywhere which showed that all components were well above freezing and nothing was too hot.

                            I now run this system whenever we have shore power and the outside temp gets below freezing. The combination described above will hold the underbelly space at 10C (50F) +/- 2C down to -14C (7F) which is the coldest that we have experienced. I expect that we have capability to go colder.

                            For your Momentum, you might want to install two of these systems. Front & Rear.

                            Rob
                            Rob - I know this is an old thread, but I recently saw these boat heaters which may do a great job in confined areas on our RV's. They are designed to turn on at 40°F, and turn off at 55°F. They are pricey, but appear to be great for our applications.

                            https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B32QGGJR...QEVmYHLimUlm5o

                            Jim
                            Jim and Ginnie
                            2024 Solitude 310GK
                            GDRV Technical Forum Moderator
                            GDRV Rally Support Coordinator

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              TucsonJim Hi Jim,

                              That’s a great find! Except for the price .
                              Exactly what I created from other parts . . . but with a better temperature control range.

                              Edit: Just noticed that this unit meets USCG standards . . . LOL!

                              Rob
                              Cate & Rob
                              (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
                              2015 Reflection 303RLS
                              2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                              Bayham, Ontario, Canada

                              Comment

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