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  • #31
    Originally posted by howson View Post

    We're discussing the black tank flush system--NOT the fresh water system--in your unit. As the diagram below shows (Cate&Rob originally posted) it's just a straight system with one valve. Just my .02, but I've never put a pressure reducer on this system when I flush my black tank. I hook up a dedicated hose I use just for this purpose and let it rip at whatever pressure the park system will provide. Anecdotal at best, but it's never caused me a problem.

    Howard

    Click image for larger version Name:	Rob Black.JPG Views:	0 Size:	51.3 KB ID:	18787
    I will attach the tank flush line that is and never has been regulated and report back what the actual PSI reading into the hose is.Should I need to, I can connect another pump to raise the pressure, I can but I don't think that will get the tank wash outlet to rinse the sensors that are actually behind it.
    Last edited by ThePowells; 05-16-2020, 09:23 PM.
    Jerry and Kelly Powell, with Halo, Nash, Reid, Cleo, Rosie, and the two newest additions Shaggy and Bella..
    Nash County, NC
    2020 Solitude 390RK-R​

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    • #32
      Originally posted by ThePowells View Post

      I will attach the tank flush line that is and never has been regulated and report back what the actual PSI reading into the hose is.Should I need to, I can connect another pump to raise the pressure, I can but I don't think that will get the tank wash outlet to rinse the sensors that are actually behind it.
      I don't recommend an additional pump. Just use the city water pressure as provided for the black flush system.

      However, even if the flush is done with excellent water pressure...the sensors may not get cleaned completely.

      The sensors on all of the tanks (and the corresponding lights on the Convenience Panel) are notoriously inaccurate. Many RV'ers just ignore them. For longer stays, a regular dump schedule (once every three days or so) usually works out fine for the two of us in the 315RLTS.

      Cleaning the sensors (and interior of the tanks) is yet another topic. For that we use the "Geo Method" on travel days. After dumping (and running the flush until the water comes out mostly clear of the black tank) the wife adds the "Geo" mix to each tank gray and black. As we go down the road the solution sloshes around to clean the tanks.

      There are endless websites and videos on the Geo Method. Here's one that appears succinct in it's presentation: https://wheelingit.us/2012/03/21/rv-...he-geo-method/

      Howard

      P.S. If you try the Geo, use only a small amount of Dawn (more is not better). Use too much and it foams like crazy at the sewer connection when dumping. Now how would I know that?
      Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

      2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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      • #33
        Originally posted by howson View Post
        If you try the Geo, use only a small amount of Dawn (more is not better). Use too much and it foams like crazy at the sewer connection when dumping. Now how would I know that?
        Hi Howard,

        We don't use the Geo process, but I did go to the site you linked. They talk about using dish washing "detergent" (like for an automatic dishwasher?) but show a bottle of Dawn dish washing liquid (for hand washing dishes). I can certainly see where a cup of dish washing liquid would "foam like crazy" when flushed, particularly with softened water .

        I can't remember the last time I checked the tank level indicators . . . those things just frustrate me .

        Rob



        Cate & Rob
        (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
        2015 Reflection 303RLS
        2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
        Bayham, Ontario, Canada

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        • #34
          Originally posted by howson View Post

          I don't recommend an additional pump. Just use the city water pressure as provided for the black flush system.

          However, even if the flush is done with excellent water pressure...the sensors may not get cleaned completely.

          The sensors on all of the tanks (and the corresponding lights on the Convenience Panel) are notoriously inaccurate. Many RV'ers just ignore them. For longer stays, a regular dump schedule (once every three days or so) usually works out fine for the two of us in the 315RLTS.

          Cleaning the sensors (and interior of the tanks) is yet another topic. For that we use the "Geo Method" on travel days. After dumping (and running the flush until the water comes out mostly clear of the black tank) the wife adds the "Geo" mix to each tank gray and black. As we go down the road the solution sloshes around to clean the tanks.

          There are endless websites and videos on the Geo Method. Here's one that appears succinct in it's presentation: https://wheelingit.us/2012/03/21/rv-...he-geo-method/

          Howard

          P.S. If you try the Geo, use only a small amount of Dawn (more is not better). Use too much and it foams like crazy at the sewer connection when dumping. Now how would I know that?
          Yep, I learned a long time ago (or so it seems) about sensor cleaning and dump schedules. I used to use a 3" connection straight into a not very well built septic system for a rental trailer that we bought and would overwhelm it, and that was a 24 or 30 gallon black tank. The S/B we are hooked to now has an "unknown" quality / quantity. I pretty much stay to a schedule of dumping the day or night before I go back to work. I could run a much longer cycle, but again I don't want to overload the system. I use the Geo system at every chance and use Dawn and Pine Sol. Many had went to the dishwasher pods or a He washing machine pod since they are low sudsing. I also use hot water and have found that pouring it from a 5 gallon bucket does great at breaking anything up. The bad part now that we don't have the pasture space for a high speed/low resistance tank draining as we used to.
          Jerry and Kelly Powell, with Halo, Nash, Reid, Cleo, Rosie, and the two newest additions Shaggy and Bella..
          Nash County, NC
          2020 Solitude 390RK-R​

          Comment


          • #35
            Another Follow Up: Since I started this thread, I thought I would do a final summary. The dealer tech came today to R & R the black water holding tank. Even after all the discussion I had with folks at Grand Design about placement of the fitting for the tank flush nozzle, the fitting had been installed in the top of the tank just above the 3" discharge. I can't think of a more useless location. I had been told that GD would ship a fitting with the tank that the tech could spin into the tank wherever I wanted it. There was no such fitting. Besides, we are leaving here in 4 days and I did not want to hold up this process since we've been waiting since April to get his done. Also, I have bypassed the black tank and have the toilet dumping directly into my outgoing sewer line. However, if I ever sell this rig and the buyer wants to use the holding tank, he will never get it flushed properly with the nozzle mounted where it is.

            It would seem there is some problem with engineering or vendor communication at Grand Design.
            2019 Solitude 384GK-R.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by KirbyRVA View Post
              Another Follow Up: Since I started this thread, I thought I would do a final summary. The dealer tech came today to R & R the black water holding tank. Even after all the discussion I had with folks at Grand Design about placement of the fitting for the tank flush nozzle, the fitting had been installed in the top of the tank just above the 3" discharge. I can't think of a more useless location. I had been told that GD would ship a fitting with the tank that the tech could spin into the tank wherever I wanted it. There was no such fitting. Besides, we are leaving here in 4 days and I did not want to hold up this process since we've been waiting since April to get his done. Also, I have bypassed the black tank and have the toilet dumping directly into my outgoing sewer line. However, if I ever sell this rig and the buyer wants to use the holding tank, he will never get it flushed properly with the nozzle mounted where it is.

              It would seem there is some problem with engineering or vendor communication at Grand Design.
              That's really disappointing after all the communication.
              Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

              2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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              • #37
                KirbyRVA

                "Thanks" for the update. This is really disappointing after all the work you have put into explaining what you wanted and why . . . which should not be this difficult for Grand Design to understand. We need a "Don't Like" button.

                Rob
                Cate & Rob
                (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
                2015 Reflection 303RLS
                2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                Bayham, Ontario, Canada

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                • #38
                  I am not sure if a Tech could actually "spin on a new fitting". This is kind of a special process.

                  Brian
                  Brian & Michelle
                  2018 Reflection 29RS
                  2022 Chevy 3500HD

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Country Campers View Post
                    I am not sure if a Tech could actually "spin on a new fitting". This is kind of a special process.

                    Brian
                    Yes, I’ve heard can do it with a woodworking router with a a special footing but to do it right you really need a special tool. The process is called spin welding.
                    Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                    Neil Citro
                    2018 Reflection 28BH Pepwave
                    2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

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                    • #40
                      Country Campers and ncitro ,

                      Not that it helps KirbyRVA at this point, but for my own knowledge (I know nothing about the process you two are referencing), wouldn't a flush nozzle in a black tank get installed in a similar fashion to the way this Rec Pro video shows installing a sensor? (Start at ~ the 4 min mark.)



                      There's even an aftermarket add-on available from Camco. (One would have to be a brave soul to work with a 'used' black tank...)

                      Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                      2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by howson View Post
                        ...
                        I did add an aftermarket one to my old SOB rig (I cleaned and cleaned and cleaned the tank, then I cleaned it more lol), but I assumed they ordered the tanks from the supplier with the bulkheads for water connection (including the black flush) spin welded on. I’m only familiar with this process because I replaced my water tank with a larger one in that rig, and I was looking for a way to mount the level sensors. I learned that’s how those are attached.


                        Last edited by howson; 06-10-2020, 11:29 AM. Reason: Edited out (my) quote to make ncitro's response easier to read, and also embedded video.
                        Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                        Neil Citro
                        2018 Reflection 28BH Pepwave
                        2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Attached is information from B&B Molders (who I believe are the suppliers of the black tank flush systems to Grand Design).
                          Note that their installation instructions describe a "spin welded" nozzle (and how that is done) for Roto Molded plastic tanks and a glued/screwed on nozzle for ABS tanks.

                          Rob
                          Attached Files
                          Cate & Rob
                          (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
                          2015 Reflection 303RLS
                          2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                          Bayham, Ontario, Canada

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post
                            Attached is information from B&B Molders (who I believe are the suppliers of the black tank flush systems to Grand Design).
                            Note that their installation instructions describe a "spin welded" nozzle (and how that is done) for Roto Molded plastic tanks and a glued/screwed on nozzle for ABS tanks.

                            Rob
                            The holding tanks are ABS and the fresh is roto molded is that correct?
                            Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                            Neil Citro
                            2018 Reflection 28BH Pepwave
                            2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by ncitro View Post

                              The holding tanks are ABS and the fresh is roto molded is that correct?
                              From the configuration of the tanks, I would have also thought that too . . . but the OE flush nozzles are spin welded in, which makes me think they are roto molded as well.

                              Rob
                              Cate & Rob
                              (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
                              2015 Reflection 303RLS
                              2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                              Bayham, Ontario, Canada

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post

                                From the configuration of the tanks, I would have also thought that too . . . but the OE flush nozzles are spin welded in, which makes me think they are roto molded as well.

                                Rob
                                Huh well there you go.
                                Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                                Neil Citro
                                2018 Reflection 28BH Pepwave
                                2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

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