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Fixing Stuck 1.5" Bristol Gray Valves ( 315RLTS )

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  • Fixing Stuck 1.5" Bristol Gray Valves ( 315RLTS )

    Update: For those not familiar with my threads, I document as I go which often leads to highlighting mistakes or finding better ways to do something. Be sure and read the entire thread! The mods were completed 23 May 2020. If I discover there are unintended consequences (read: something bad happened) I'll be sure and post an update. -Howard

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Where to begin?

    I removed the bathroom gray valve because the valve/cable wouldn't move. Not an inch. I found the cable inside the sleeve severely corroded. I also lubricated the interior of the "knife" assembly in the valve. The seals and knife itself are fine, no damage that I can see. So I went to put everything back together--that's when the fun began.

    Before I attempted the reassembly I looked for a replacement. All the online videos on replacing waste valves make it look easy. True if you've got a Valterra with the integrated handle. Not so much with a Bristol with a cable.

    After much research I found there are no spare parts available for the Bristol 1 1/2" gray valve on my trailer. I confirmed this after finding a conversation between Cate&Rob and GD (different forum) from early 2018 confirming that none are available. What's even more fun is (as you can see by the GD parts listing below) the valve comes with a "spigot" and "hub" to install over pipe ends. It's then supposed to be glued on. Not. Going. To. Happen. The 96" cable version is also expensive-->$70!

    Click image for larger version  Name:	LaSalle Part for 315RLTS.JPG Views:	25 Size:	55.0 KB ID:	19132 ​​​​​
    So why can't I glue on a new one? GD installed the gray valve (which is glued on as I just stated) immediately adjacent to the gray tank. On the other side it goes into a 90 degree turn and into another junction. There's no way to cut it out and install a new one (that I can figure out) with a sleeve or any of the ideas Rob has documented.

    Click image for larger version  Name:	Angle.JPG Views:	22 Size:	123.8 KB ID:	19133

    To make it even more fun, note in the picture above that when the GD installed the valve they glued it onto the PVC pipe at an angle. Instead of pointing to "3 o'clock" it's more like "2". This is making the re-installation a nightmare. I can't line up the seals and pipes with the valve completely assembled, but now that I've got just the "knife" end installed I can't get the housing back on due to interference with the trailer frame. (After lunch I'm going to try and turn the valve 180 degrees.) I've got pics showing how to disassemble the Bristol which I'll hopefully get to later today since without context this paragraph probably doesn't make much sense.

    Incredibly frustrating. This could be so much better if designed like what I see in the "RVGeeks" video where the valves are actuated by a simple handle (right on the valve) immediately adjacent to waste pipe, which is right near the exit. It took him all of about 10 minutes to swap out the Valterra valve. It should be relatively easy to do the gray pipes. Not sure about the black. Something like the pic below:

    Click image for larger version  Name:	Like This Here.JPG Views:	21 Size:	106.3 KB ID:	19134

    Time for lunch and then "Round 2" trying to get this valve installed. Wish me luck.

    Howard
    Last edited by howson; 10-28-2020, 08:33 AM.
    Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

    2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

  • #2
    Success. I tested it--no leaks from the valve and no bypass into the waste line. That, forum members, is a minor miracle.

    As mentioned in post #1, after lunch I flipped the valve 180 degrees so it is now pointing aft (and due to how it was installed at the factory it is pointing slightly down). Unfortunately the cable was so corroded that even after sanding off the rough areas and lubricating it, no matter how I routed it the cable wouldn't move inside the sleeve.

    What I then did was cut down the cable so there was only one 90 degree bend. It went from ~96" long to ~28" long. It worked!

    I also made a homemade handle out of a piece of 90 degree PVC since the original handle was broken.

    Pics and a short video below for those interested.

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    Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

    2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

    Comment


    • #3
      The Bristol disassembly process I promised.

      Remove the snap assembly just aft of the knife valve. It's obvious how it comes apart.

      Click image for larger version

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      Remove the sleeve retainer block screw. (I'm making up the terms for these parts--no idea what they are actually called!)

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      Gently(!) split the sleeve guide assembly and slide the knife valve forward past the retention clips.

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      Unscrew the cable from the knife assembly.

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      Pull out the sleeve retainer block from the sleeve guide assembly.

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      (cont in next post)
      Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

      2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

      Comment


      • #4
        The Bristol disassembly process (cont)

        Unscrew the sleeve retention block from the sleeve.

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        The inner steel rod can now be removed from the outer sleeve.

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        A couple of notes:

        1) When the steel rod is removed from the sleeve, due to how the rod is attached to the knife valve there's usually a small bend in the end of the rod. This necessitates snipping off a small section of rod to get it reinserted into the sleeve. Remove too much rod and there won't be enough rod to reassemble without trimming off a corresponding amount of sleeve.

        2) It is possible to reassemble this with the knife valve installed--at least on the bathroom gray tank on a 315RLTS. (I had to do it this way!) All of the hardware ended up being upside down (retaining screw was facing UP originally now it is facing DOWN).

        3) The sleeve retainer block was a pain to install, as it needed to be in the one position that didn't put stress on the sleeve (trying to bend it in a way it didn't want to go). It took many, many tries to get it right. (I can disassemble and reassemble this thing in minutes now!)

        Any questions, fire away.

        Howard

        P.S. Here's a shot at how bad the corrosion on the steel rod was--the shiny metal is original rod (but wasn't damaged). The other is the corroded rod. Ultimately it was the corroded cable that caused the binding issue.

        Click image for larger version

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        Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

        2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

        Comment


        • #5
          Very interesting to see this done howson I will certainly bookmark this for my own future reference, thanks for posting! I am dreading the time when I need to venture into this, I have had one grey gate valve fully replaced under warranty after the cable and handle separated. Thankfully when it happened I was winterizing and the tank wasn't full or anything. And now that I think about it, when I was looking to get the part from Grand Design you and Cate&Rob helped me lookup the parts (https://gdrvowners.com/forum/operati...ve-part-number) Thanks for your help BTW . I went back to that posting, and I know I said Grand Design told me the shorter 36" cable valve was the right part, but in the end I asked for both from them, and our dealer installed the longer 96" version. So I think you may have been correct and Grand Design maybe just misunderstood which valve I was asking about.

          I just wanted to double check, you used the original valve cable that was installed before and was 96" correct? It's interesting Grand Design didn't use the shorter cable version of that valve since as you showed, you only need about 28" of cable.
          2019 Imagine 2400BH
          2019 F150 XLT Super Crew, EcoBoost, 6.5' box, Max tow package with 3.55 ratio

          Comment


          • #6
            Just reading my earlier post you guys helped me on again, and Rob made a comment that "The gate valves from the two manufacturers are interchangeable." We were discussing the Lasalle-Bristol and Valterra brand valves. Cate&Rob I am assuming this statement doesn't mean the hubs that are attached to the 1.5" pipe on each brand fit each other right? If it did, I would assume that howson would have just installed a Valterra valve using the same hubs. Therefore, does the interchangeable statement you made mean that they are just both 1.5" drain valves and that you can cut out the Lasalle-Bristol vale and glue in its place a Valterra? Thanks!
            2019 Imagine 2400BH
            2019 F150 XLT Super Crew, EcoBoost, 6.5' box, Max tow package with 3.55 ratio

            Comment


            • #7
              howson
              Wow Howard . . . I take a sunny afternoon to wax the truck and the plumbing section of the forum blows up LOL!

              StephenO
              It would seem that a "replacement" Lasalle-Bristol valve comes with the flanges that would be glued to a new tank and a new drain system. Based on the earlier thread discussed "elsewhere" it is my understanding that a Valtera replacement valve can be installed between the two existing Lasalle-Bristol flanges. I have not done this myself . . . so, I don't know this to be a fact. There should be no cutting and gluing involved in replacing a Lasalle-Bristol gate valve with a Valterra gate valve.

              Rob
              Cate & Rob
              (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
              2015 Reflection 303RLS
              2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
              Bayham, Ontario, Canada

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              • #8
                Originally posted by StephenO View Post
                ...and Rob made a comment that "The gate valves from the two manufacturers are interchangeable."
                Well that will be interesting if true. The Valterra valve body does look very similar. https://www.valterra.com/product/was...eals-hardware/


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                Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

                Comment


                • #9
                  KITCHEN GRAY VALVE

                  If you've followed this thread you saw in the earlier video that the kitchen gray valve does not work, either. Cable won't budge an inch.

                  Now that I know how to disassemble the Bristol valve I did it without removing the knife valve. I didn't remove it from the drain lines, I just took off the cable and associated hardware.

                  Once everything was removed the valve was still hard to actuate. Instead of typing another long post, the 55 second video below shows what I did. (Note the idea is not new or unique--lots of YouTube videos online showing a similar method.)



                  In case you're wondering, I chose to not try and remove the kitchen gray valve because it is right above the MORryde suspension beams. If I ran into any trouble with the valve, I'd have a problem. (If I ever have to replace the kitchen gray tank I'm in trouble! The suspension will probably have to come apart. Ugh.)

                  I have an idea of how to plug the hole I made in the valve casing while making future lubrication a simple process. I'll post a follow-up tomorrow.

                  Besides that all I need to do is shorten the actuator cable and reassemble the exterior sleeve parts on the valve. Took all of 30 minutes to get more than 1/2 way through this valve after spending 2 days on the bathroom gray. Talk about a learning curve...

                  Howard
                  Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                  2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    howson
                    Hi Howard,

                    This "lubrication hole" idea is not unlike the zerk grease fittings that I added to my gate valves. (See attached). I do think that grease will last longer than spray lubricant. My "observation" in researching this when I replaced my gate valves is that the cavity that the gate pulls back into, fills up with "whatever" is in the tank. I would be concerned about tank contents leaking out of that open hole. But, solving this may be the next part of your story . . .

                    Rob
                    Attached Files
                    Cate & Rob
                    (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
                    2015 Reflection 303RLS
                    2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                    Bayham, Ontario, Canada

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post
                      This "lubrication hole" idea is not unlike the zerk grease fittings...
                      Absolutely! I should have mentioned that in my post. I referenced your document (in my library) before I tackled this project so I had an idea of what was going on. I just don't have the technical know-how to install a zerk. So it's a hole with a screw plugging it for me (or the alternative I'm going to try tomorrow).

                      I should get some credit for not using WD-40 as shown in some of the online videos.

                      What's interesting is the black valve works perfectly. That tank gets a dose of "Geo" prior to every travel day, so there's frequently fresh cleaners (and lubricant in the soap) sloshing around in the tank. Purely anecdotal, but I can't help but wonder if that is helping keep the seals working well. It doesn't explain why the steel rod in the sleeve of the black line hasn't corroded but both gray rods are badly rusted.

                      FYI, I now understand how there's no way to get lubricant into the knife valve through the sleeve.

                      Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                      2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by howson View Post

                        Well that will be interesting if true. The Valterra valve body does look very similar.
                        It was a while ago that I went through this, but my black valve was not closing all the way. Anticipating a mess when I pulled it all apart I went ahead and ordered a Valterra valve to have on hand when I opened it all up. I was able to glue the Valterra valve in where the factory Bristol was without too much issue, so I can vouch for the compatibility.

                        Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                        Neil Citro
                        2018 Reflection 28BH Pepwave
                        2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ncitro View Post

                          It was a while ago that I went through this, but my black valve was not closing all the way. Anticipating a mess when I pulled it all apart I went ahead and ordered a Valterra valve to have on hand when I opened it all up. I was able to glue the Valterra valve in where the factory Bristol was without too much issue, so I can vouch for the compatibility.
                          Glue?

                          What I was hoping is that the Valterra would bolt onto the Bristol flanges ("Spigot" and "Hub" that are glued onto the trailer PVC pipes).
                          Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                          2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by howson View Post

                            Glue?

                            What I was hoping is that the Valterra would bolt onto the Bristol flanges ("Spigot" and "Hub" that are glued onto the trailer PVC pipes).
                            Sorry I was thinking of the valve I installed at my outlet. You’re correct it did bolt to the flanges.
                            Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                            Neil Citro
                            2018 Reflection 28BH Pepwave
                            2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by howson View Post

                              Glue?

                              What I was hoping is that the Valterra would bolt onto the Bristol flanges ("Spigot" and "Hub" that are glued onto the trailer PVC pipes).
                              Same hope over here! I was doing some searching around online about the interoperability between the two brands and from what I gathered, although this was very limited information, but the 3" valves are interchangeable with the same bolt positions. However, the 1.5" valves have a slightly different bolt spacing, but if you do some slight work you could make it fight. What that work is and how much tweaking is required? No idea!
                              2019 Imagine 2400BH
                              2019 F150 XLT Super Crew, EcoBoost, 6.5' box, Max tow package with 3.55 ratio

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