Replacing the Soft Hose in a 315RLTS

[Schiefswret]

Schiefswret

I have not heard or seen that GD has stopped using the soft hose in their units , I along with plenty of others wish that they would. On the other side of the soft hose we have not experienced any failures as of yet. This may go with the "not if it happens but when it happens" logic , but I am keeping an eye on it.

Brian

Gotcha, thanks Brian. I suspect and hope that using the soft hose method was no experiment wherein GD said “oh, probably not a good idea bu let’s give it a whirl and see what happens”.
Otherwise my guess would be that a significant number of complaints and warranty claims would have inundated GD. Not sure, just my thought process.

[howson]

Gotcha, thanks Brian. I suspect and hope that using the soft hose method was no experiment wherein GD said “oh, probably not a good idea bu let’s give it a whirl and see what happens”.
Otherwise my guess would be that a significant number of complaints and warranty claims would have inundated GD. Not sure, just my thought process.

Dave (or Sue?)--have you read Rob's "Soft Hose Leaks" document and the others that are in the Reference Material sub-channel? His documentation will go a long way to educating you on the "why" behind all the "what".

Howard

[Schiefswret]

Dave (or Sue?)--have you read Rob's "Soft Hose Leaks" document and the others that are in the Reference Material sub-channel? His documentation will go a long way to educating you on the "why" behind all the "what".

Howard

Howard, I have not but I’ll check it out. Thanks.

[Cate&Rob]

Howard (or anyone who may know), do you know if any 2020 or 21 GD models have replaced the soft hoses with the type in this post at the manufacturing point?

If anything, I would expect that the use of soft hose in increasing. This was my observation at a factory training event for forum moderators last Fall. I saw many soft hose “pigtails” used to assist quick connection to fixtures.

Rob

[Sumitk2]

The Nautilus is in and, to my complete amazement, no leaks anywhere. Proves beyond any doubt that pex compression fittings are "dummy proof".

Water flow inside the camper was strong at all the faucets and shower.

Note to self: fresh water doesn't flow into the hot water tank if you have the new valve installed turned to "off". (Oops.)

Tested the fresh water drain (works great), and all the valves on the exterior work, too, with no issues (so far).

Only head-scratcher was the solid white wire going into the water pump switch on the Nautilus. Unlike almost every other solid white wire on the camper, it is *not* a ground. The wire is part of the 3-way circuit since the pump can be turned on at the Nautilus or inside the camper on the main control panel. Once it dawned on me what that white wire was (I'd taken copious pictures so I knew how it was previously configured) everything went together and worked with no issues.

The system is currently pressurized from the water pump and it is going to stay like this for an extended period (probably all night). It *should* hold the pressure--we'll see how it goes.

Some pics:







Still have some minor cleanup work to do and still want to figure out something with that exterior faucet. I'll update the pressure test tomorrow.

Howard

Hello fellow GD owners,

This has been an amazing thread! I just purchased a 2019 GD Reflection 312BHTS from an individual, had it inspected thoroughly, and when I got the camper home, 3 days later I noticed some water coming from the Nautilus panel. I have since found 3 other areas where water is dripping from, and you guessed right...soft hose connections with Pex fittings. I am currently away from home for work, and thought this would be a great way to not live in a hotel...looks like I found something to keep me busy. Luckily I'm relatively south, and its not supposed to freeze for a few weeks. I will be living in the camper as I mod it...so it should be fun.

Howard,

1. We have a similar design, except I have the outside kitchen all the way in the back, with a leak, so I am thinking of installing 2 shutoff valves somewhere inside (will need to take the underbelly off), so I can pump anti-freeze in those lines, then turn the valves closed at the inside location, and clean out the rest of the lines for normal use when the weather turns bad. I don't believe there is sufficient heat all the way back there, and don't want to take any chances. I guess I could also install low point drains for the outside kitchen.

2. Coming off the Nautilus, my hot water line splits into two lines. I am trying to free up the hoses going through the subfloor hole, and am wondering your thoughts on having one hot go though the subfloor, and then split them? I think one line of the return from the hot water tank, and the other is going to the rest of the rig.

3. I love the idea of insulating the hoses for both hot and cold, I am wondering if that might delay and confuse the search for a potential small leak?

Thanks for your input, this forum is awesome!

Jordan

[Cate&Rob]

Sumitk2
Hi Jordan,
Welcome to our owners forum. I see that you have already found some info to help with your project.

howson

Hi Howard,
Please see Jordan's post. Jordan and I have already had some email discussion on this topic and I I am guilty of pointing him in your direction (and to this forum as well) for info on solving/improving the plumbing systems on a Reflection TT.

Rob

[howson]

Hi Jordan,
Glad this thread is useful. Let me attempt to address your questions. I'm going to split my response into three separate posts.

We have a similar design, except I have the outside kitchen all the way in the back, with a leak, so I am thinking of installing 2 shutoff valves somewhere inside (will need to take the underbelly off), so I can pump anti-freeze in those lines, then turn the valves closed at the inside location, and clean out the rest of the lines for normal use when the weather turns bad. I don't believe there is sufficient heat all the way back there, and don't want to take any chances. I guess I could also install low point drains for the outside kitchen.

Based on what I know about my trailer and what I can see in the Water Supply Plan drawing for your trailer, the water lines "T" under the kitchen sink (probably under the floor but above the coroplast) and then feed the outside sink. If the hole under the sink through the floor (in the island) is as large as the one in my trailer, you could move where the hot and cold lines "T" from under the floor to inside the island and add those shutoffs. That would allow you to do the winterization as planned, engage the shutoffs, and then utilize the rest of the trailer's water lines as planned.

[howson]

Coming off the Nautilus, my hot water line splits into two lines. I am trying to free up the hoses going through the subfloor hole, and am wondering your thoughts on having one hot go though the subfloor, and then split them? I think one line of the return from the hot water tank, and the other is going to the rest of the rig.

I had to do some research to refresh my memory. Short answer: yes. Long answer...keep reading.

In this first diagram, the red valve is turned so the hot water heater is active in the water circuit. Now find the "yellow 1" in the diagram below. That's where the cold water starts for the purposes of this discussion. (You are looking at the back of the Nautilus Panel if it's not obvious.)

Follow the blue lines with arrows (cold water) as it flows to the hot water heater. The red lines with arrows show where the hot water flows. Since my trailer has the washer in the front I have that extra line (I don't think your 312 has this at the Nautilus so that is why it has an X in this diagram).

Bottom line: I don't see why the two hot water lines can't be under the coroplast instead of behind the Nautilus.



The diagram below is to show water flow when the hot water heater's bypass valve (the red valve) is engaged. (If not obvious, the bulb at the end of the red line above and the blue line below shows where water stops. The cold water will not backfill the hot water heater due to the check valve.)

[howson]

I love the idea of insulating the hoses for both hot and cold, I am wondering if that might delay and confuse the search for a potential small leak?

Yes, that's certainly a possibility. Since all of my lines are now pex the hope is I won't have to deal with leaks. Even if there is a leak, removing the insulation won't be difficult or time-consuming. Should be easy to rip out the insulation if that was ever required to track down a leak.

[Sumitk2]

Howard,

Great diagrams! I love pictures! Thank you so much!

1. As I remove the coroplast to inspect further, I continue to worry about the reinstall. They usually don’t go back to way they were! Any tips?

2. I ran a test pex pipe for the water pump To see is I was competent enough for the undertaking. Thoughts on long term vibrations on the fittings and the nautilus? I am assuming this is why GD had a flexible hose?

Jordan

[howson]

Cate&Rob is our resident plumbing guru, so while I'll give you my .02 if Rob posts anything counter to what I write--I'd suggest going with his input.

As I remove the coroplast to inspect further, I continue to worry about the reinstall. They usually don’t go back to way they were! Any tips?

https://gdrvowners.com/forum/exterio...allation-notes

I am assuming this is why GD had a flexible hose?

IMHO Grand Design installs flexible hose because it is easy to install (takes less time) thus lowers the cost of producing a unit.

Thoughts on long term vibrations on the fittings and the nautilus?

The only issue I've had (to date) is a slight leak from a screw-together fitting behind the toilet. (Water alarm I had on the floor behind the potty warned me before it did any damage.) A quick twist of the connection and no more leak. Long term? Time will tell...

[Cate&Rob]

Sumitk2
Hi Jordan,
I knew that if I got you and Howard connected, the ideas would flow. A forum tip . . . if you want to reach a specific forum member, tag them with “@ forum name”.

Connections to the water pump are the one place that I use soft hose to isolate vibration. I use a coil of washing machine connection hose on both the input and output of the water pump.

Installing valves that will allow you to fill unused lines with antifreeze and then isolate them from the usable system is a great idea. I used to do exactly this on my boat (a 40’ floating RV) in the spring/fall shoulder seasons and this worked well.

Grand Design uses soft hose to expedite production assembly. This is the only reason. All soft hose “extensions” can be replaced with properly fitted Pex lines.

Rob

[Sumitk2]

Rob Cate&Rob & Howard howson,

You guys have been great! I removed about 90% of the soft tubing, and will post my progress in a new thread....once I catch my breath.

Thanks again!

Jordan

[ThePowells]

Rob Cate&Rob & Howard howson,

You guys have been great! I removed about 90% of the soft tubing, and will post my progress in a new thread....once I catch my breath.

Thanks again!

Jordan

Anything like this? I did this while at home with 2 broken ribs. Luckily me basement is big enough for me to easily move around.

[Cate&Rob]

Anything like this? I did this while at home with 2 broken ribs. Luckily me basement is big enough for me to easily move around.

We could set up a photo contest for removed plumbing hose . . . I think Jerry has the best collection so far .
I will add mine.

Rob