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  • Fill Tank and Use Water in Camper at the Same Time?

    Moderator Note: The first nine posts were extracted from a different thread, as this ended up being an entirely separate discussion. -Howard


    This brings up a somewhat related question I’ve always had. Possibly someone who has rebuilt their panel will know this from the valves. I know the setting marked on the panel is “Powerfill Tank”, which when set that way preclude use of the water system while filling the tank. I’m assuming there’s only one line from the panel to the tank, but can anyone confirm there’s no way to use the water in the rig while filling the tank? Either on city or off the pump?
    Last edited by howson; 06-12-2020, 05:38 PM.
    Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

    Neil Citro
    2018 Reflection 28BH Pepwave
    2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

  • #2
    Originally posted by ncitro View Post



    This brings up a somewhat related question I’ve always had. Possibly someone who has rebuilt their panel will know this from the valves. I know the setting marked on the panel is “Powerfill Tank”, which when set that way preclude use of the water system while filling the tank. I’m assuming there’s only one line from the panel to the tank, but can anyone confirm there’s no way to use the water in the rig while filling the tank? Either on city or off the pump?
    Interesting question.

    On Powerfill, the white and blue knob (valves) are configured to send city water into the water tank. Black, green and red may not make a difference (if the theoretical drawings below are accurate).

    On Dry Camping, the black and green knob are configured to send water from the tank to the RV. White, blue, and red may not make difference.

    The red knob position doesn't matter because it only affects whether water flows through the hot water heater or not.

    I *think* what you're suggesting might work. Configure the white and blue for powerfill, and green and black for dry camping.

    But given the relatively short time it takes to fill the fresh water tank, I have to ask the obvious question--why?

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    Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

    2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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    • #3
      Originally posted by howson View Post

      Interesting question.

      On Powerfill, the white and blue knob (valves) are configured to send city water into the water tank. Black, green and red may not make a difference (if the theoretical drawings below are accurate).

      On Dry Camping, the black and green knob are configured to send water from the tank to the RV. White, blue, and red may not make difference.

      The red knob position doesn't matter because it only affects whether water flows through the hot water heater or not.

      I *think* what you're suggesting might work. Configure the white and blue for powerfill, and green and black for dry camping.

      But given the relatively short time it takes to fill the fresh water tank, I have to ask the obvious question--why?

      Click image for larger version

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      I’m glad you asked lol. Our normal system is when packing up I dump the tanks and pack up the outside while my wife cleans up the inside. We normally fill the fresh tank at least somewhat for travel, All the way if we are going to a dry site. It would be nice if while I was filling she could still be doing dishes and whatnot.
      Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

      Neil Citro
      2018 Reflection 28BH Pepwave
      2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

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      • #4
        Originally posted by ncitro View Post
        Our normal system is when packing up I dump the tanks and pack up the outside while my wife cleans up the inside. We normally fill the fresh tank at least somewhat for travel, All the way if we are going to a dry site. It would be nice if while I was filling she could still be doing dishes and whatnot.
        With apologies to bertschb as we've hijacked his thread...

        My DW has me trained to do the water tasks the night before so her schedule isn't disrupted in the morning.

        Tank dumping is always last, as weight is always a consideration so I try not to depart without any liquid in the grays. (I have a small amount of water in the black along with the "Geo" solution.) Fresh will have ~5 gallons when going to another full hookup site. That's proven to be enough for bathroom needs while traveling. I have yet to travel to a destination that didn't have water, so that will be an interesting challenge. Hopefully soon! I'm ready to stop working on POW and start using it.

        I guess we should get back on topic, eh?
        Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

        2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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        • #5
          Originally posted by ncitro View Post



          I’m assuming there’s only one line from the panel to the tank, but can anyone confirm there’s no way to use the water in the rig while filling the tank? Either on city or off the pump?
          There is only one line from the panel to the tank, so it can be used to either draw water out of the tank or put water into the tank. There is no way to be drawing water out of the tank using the pump & tank supply while putting water into the tank through this same line.

          On the Kantleak system, there is a "tank access" valve that connects the pressurized water system to the line to the tank. This is typically only used for introducing antifreeze to this line while winterizing with the 4 way valve and pump drawing from an antifreeze container, but could be used to direct water to the water tank while using the rest of the water system on city water. I don't know if the "Nautilus Network" of multiple valves has this capability or not.

          Rob

          Cate & Rob
          (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
          2015 Reflection 303RLS
          2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
          Bayham, Ontario, Canada

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          • #6
            Originally posted by howson View Post

            With apologies to bertschb as we've hijacked his thread...

            My DW has me trained to do the water tasks the night before so her schedule isn't disrupted in the morning.

            Tank dumping is always last, as weight is always a consideration so I try not to depart without any liquid in the grays. (I have a small amount of water in the black along with the "Geo" solution.) Fresh will have ~5 gallons when going to another full hookup site. That's proven to be enough for bathroom needs while traveling. I have yet to travel to a destination that didn't have water, so that will be an interesting challenge. Hopefully soon! I'm ready to stop working on POW and start using it.

            I guess we should get back on topic, eh?
            Indeed, back on topic I would be curious as well if a better pump would make his difference.
            Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

            Neil Citro
            2018 Reflection 28BH Pepwave
            2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post
              There is only one line from the panel to the tank, so it can be used to either draw water out of the tank or put water into the tank.
              That is true--I should have known that based on my recent work. I need to update those diagrams.

              Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

              2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post
                There is only one line from the panel to the tank...
                Rob,
                This diagram is (still) wrong since it shows two lines going to the water tank, but if the black valve was opened why wouldn't water flow to both the pump and into the tank? I'd guess there's a possibility of starving the pump if too much goes to the tank.

                I am not advocating doing this--just noodling the possibility.

                Howard

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                Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by howson View Post

                  Rob,
                  This diagram is (still) wrong since it shows two lines going to the water tank, but if the black valve was opened why wouldn't water flow to both the pump and into the tank? I'd guess there's a possibility of starving the pump if too much goes to the tank.

                  I am not advocating doing this--just noodling the possibility.

                  Howard
                  Hi Howard,

                  I don't fully understand the Nautilus system, but it looks like the black valve connects the main "pressurized water manifold" to the tank. Why would it do this under normal operation ? This is the same thing that the "tank access" valve does on a Kantleak system, intended primarily for sanitizing/winterizing . . . so, maybe intentional on the Nautilus.

                  Rob

                  Cate & Rob
                  (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
                  2015 Reflection 303RLS
                  2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                  Bayham, Ontario, Canada

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Note: This was only a test. If you try (or use) this "unapproved" Nautilus (P1) configuration the consequences are your responsibility, not mine. This was tested to prove a theory (and to answer ncitro's question).

                    ----------------------------------

                    So I had to test it--'cause theoretically it should work. And it did!

                    Here's the configuration:

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                    In the video some may question that I rotated the black valve with water pressure applied. I've looked at the valves up close--they are nothing more than a simple ball(?) valve like any "T" adapter might have for your garden hose. The warning about relieving pressure on the check valve is an entirely different topic--and the check valve itself (in the city water inlet) is an entirely different type of valve.

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                    Here's the video showing it worked:

                    Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                    2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by howson View Post
                      Note: This was only a test. If you try (or use) this "unapproved" Nautilus (P1) configuration the consequences are your responsibility, not mine. This was tested to prove a theory (and to answer ncitro's question).

                      ----------------------------------

                      So I had to test it--'cause theoretically it should work. And it did!

                      Here's the configuration:

                      Click image for larger version

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                      In the video some may question that I rotated the black valve with water pressure applied. I've looked at the valves up close--they are nothing more than a simple ball(?) valve like any "T" adapter might have for your garden hose. The warning about relieving pressure on the check valve is an entirely different topic--and the check valve itself (in the city water inlet) is an entirely different type of valve.

                      Click image for larger version

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                      Here's the video showing it worked:

                      Most excellent! Thank you for the testing! I’m headed out next weekend for a short trip to clear out the cobwebs and I’ll test out. Thank you again!
                      Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                      Neil Citro
                      2018 Reflection 28BH Pepwave
                      2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by howson View Post

                        Rob,
                        This diagram is (still) wrong since it shows two lines going to the water tank. . .

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                        I've got the Nautilus P1. And, I've got a leak (in a valve?) that seems to happen only during Powerfill. If you could get some time to update your drawings and post them, boy I'd sure appreciate it.

                        Also, I think I remember you saying that the valves are just regular ball valves. I've looked on the BandBMolders site, and I don't think they sell them. Did you remove yours? How to and/or Pics?

                        -Steve

                        2018 Solitude 310GK, disc brakes
                        Morryde SRE4000/XFactor with heavy duty shackles, V-Brackets in spring hangers
                        2012 Ram 3500 SRW 6.7 Diesel, air bags
                        18k B&W Companion, non-slider
                        640 watts solar, 400 amp-hour Lion Safari UT 1300 battery bank
                        Aims 1500 watt inverter/charger with ATS
                        Somerset, WI

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by steve&renee View Post

                          I've got the Nautilus P1. And, I've got a leak (in a valve?) that seems to happen only during Powerfill. If you could get some time to update your drawings and post them, boy I'd sure appreciate it.

                          Also, I think I remember you saying that the valves are just regular ball valves. I've looked on the BandBMolders site, and I don't think they sell them. Did you remove yours? How to and/or Pics?

                          -Steve
                          If the leak is happening during Powerfill, I *assume* the panel is normally in Dry Camping. That means the difference is caused by the change to the blue, green, or black lever.

                          The drawings I put up are conceptually correct in how the panel works, but not mechanically how they are connected. The B&B website has excellent manuals, especially the "Installation" PDF. You'll be able to easily identify the connections on the back of the panel associated with those three levers.

                          The reason I point that out is the leak may be solved with a simple tightening of the connections on the back of the panel. Again, look at the installation manual and you'll see how everything is connected. Getting your hands behind the Nautilus to tighten the knobs--that's a different story!

                          For spare parts, contact RVLock per B&B Molders' website.

                          http://www.bandbmolders.com/index.php/contact-us/

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                          Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                          2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by howson View Post



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                            Thanks for the info. The link for B&B Molders' spare parts is: http://www.rvlocksandmore.com/B-B-Molders

                            I was able to determine that the leak is associated with the black diverter valve, an
                            "on/off flow through valve that feeds pump from fresh water tank." It's leaking when the valve is shut off and you're filling the tank with city water. I tried tightening the fitting on the valve. Still leaks. That fitting has a plastic washer/gasket inside, and I was able to add another garden hose washer to the fitting and attach it to the valve, but it still leaks.

                            That black diverter valve costs $41.25 with shipping, so I'm planning to try and rebuild the pex line with a new connector before replacing the more expensive valve -- because I still don't know whether it's the expensive valve or the cheap connector that's leaking.

                            I'll post results when we get home from this camping trip. Thankfully, it only leaks when filling the tank. Hmm, given your experiments with the valve positions, shouldn't I be able to fill the tank with the black valve open?
                            Last edited by steve&renee; 06-20-2020, 10:09 AM.
                            2018 Solitude 310GK, disc brakes
                            Morryde SRE4000/XFactor with heavy duty shackles, V-Brackets in spring hangers
                            2012 Ram 3500 SRW 6.7 Diesel, air bags
                            18k B&W Companion, non-slider
                            640 watts solar, 400 amp-hour Lion Safari UT 1300 battery bank
                            Aims 1500 watt inverter/charger with ATS
                            Somerset, WI

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by steve&renee View Post
                              Hmm, given your experiments with the valve positions, shouldn't I be able to fill the tank with the black valve open?
                              <I had this wrong so just deleted the incorrect info...>

                              This could be another classic example of soft hose attached to a pex fitting that (over time) develops a leak.

                              Given what I just went through, I can't recommend going all pex. (It was not fun.) Cate&Rob is a better person to advise on this topic, but consider a connector with a barb end if reconnecting soft hose. (If I remember correctly that's what Rob recommended--either go pex connector to pex tube or barbed connector to soft hose, but don't mix!)

                              I look forward to reading the resolution!

                              Howard

                              Last edited by howson; 06-20-2020, 01:10 PM.
                              Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                              2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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