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  • Black tank leaking at tank outlet

    What is the proper way to reconnect the 3” pipe to the tank outlet? I’ve got it disassembled and cleaned up...now what. I did this a year ago and the leak recently started again, any help would be appreciated.
    Attached Files
    Joe & Melissa Shantz
    2018 Solitude 310 GK, Sailun S637 Tires 5/14/20, Mor-Ryde IS, pin box and disk brakes 6/16/20
    2021 Ram 3500 DRW

  • #2
    Jshantz

    The piece missing from your photo is the gate valve flange that is glued inside the tank opening. This is typically glued with a yellow/clear ABS solvent glue. What is the white glue/sealer in your picture . . . and why is it on the outside of the tank opening? I would think that you would have to get this connection back to clean tank wall material and use the right glue for a clean or new gate valve flange. See attached picture.

    Rob
    Attached Files
    Cate & Rob
    (with Border Collies Molly & Angel)
    2015 Reflection 303RLS
    2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
    Bayham, Ontario, Canada

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post
      Jshantz

      The piece missing from your photo is the gate valve flange that is glued inside the tank opening. This is typically glued with a yellow/clear ABS solvent glue. What is the white glue/sealer in your picture . . . and why is it on the outside of the tank opening? I would think that you would have to get this connection back to clean tank wall material and use the right glue for a clean or new gate valve flange. See attached picture.

      Rob
      @Cate&Rob
      Yes I have cleaned up the tank outlet and the gate valve (see pics below). I think that what I need is the ABS solvent glue. Originally it was some kind of white/yellowish putty in the connection when it was leaking a year ago. I attempted to reattach with some putty last year, but with my poor understanding of how to do this (not a plumber) I tried to replicate how is was originally done. I included a picture of the gate valve flange (glued to the section that goes inside the tank). I’m not good at this, so I really appreciate your help.

      Click image for larger version  Name:	0FD6CF94-686F-480C-86B6-EC70A6529F46.jpeg Views:	0 Size:	124.5 KB ID:	25162

      Click image for larger version  Name:	5883070D-E1B4-460C-BF42-6D0859D32514.jpeg Views:	0 Size:	84.9 KB ID:	25161
      Last edited by Jshantz; 07-22-2020, 07:22 PM.
      Joe & Melissa Shantz
      2018 Solitude 310 GK, Sailun S637 Tires 5/14/20, Mor-Ryde IS, pin box and disk brakes 6/16/20
      2021 Ram 3500 DRW

      Comment


      • #4
        It looks like you did a great job cleaning up those fittings. With the adhesive rob called out, you should be in good shape.

        Jim
        GDRV Forum Moderator
        GDRV SW USA Rally Support Coordinator

        Jim and Ginnie
        2017 Reflection 297RSTS

        Comment


        • #5
          Jshantz
          Joe?

          You have done a superb job at cleaning up the fitting and the tank. They look like new. I would suggest that you contact Grand Design to learn the exact spec on the glue they use or at least the material spec on the tank shell. The gate valve flange is ABS but I am not sure what the tank shell is made of. You want to get the right solvent/glue after all the work that you have gone through already.

          Rob
          Cate & Rob
          (with Border Collies Molly & Angel)
          2015 Reflection 303RLS
          2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
          Bayham, Ontario, Canada

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post
            Jshantz
            Joe?

            You have done a superb job at cleaning up the fitting and the tank. They look like new. I would suggest that you contact Grand Design to learn the exact spec on the glue they use or at least the material spec on the tank shell. The gate valve flange is ABS but I am not sure what the tank shell is made of. You want to get the right solvent/glue after all the work that you have gone through already.

            Rob
            Cate&Rob

            I believe It is a rotomolded polyethylene tank. I did call GD and they were not much help. Several things that I read online said that abs and polyethylene really couldn’t be glued together. Originally there was some type of white sealant in between the tank outlet and the abs connection with a band clamp around the tank outlet. I want to keep from redoing this fix and do it right, the help from you and this tech forum is invaluable.
            Joe & Melissa Shantz
            2018 Solitude 310 GK, Sailun S637 Tires 5/14/20, Mor-Ryde IS, pin box and disk brakes 6/16/20
            2021 Ram 3500 DRW

            Comment


            • #7
              Jshantz
              Hi Joe,

              There is plumbing fitting glue designed to combine drain fittings made from different plastics. Without better information, I would go with this glue (see attached) which should be available from Home Depot or similar.

              The most difficult part of getting this back together is going to be alignment. With the fitting cement, you typically get one quick assembly motion and this has to end up with the gate valve flange exactly aligned with the similar flange on the pipe. I think that I would assemble the gate valve first and then press the flange into the tank opening in one motion.

              You are correct that the white sealant and the band clamp are not something that would have come from the factory. This looks like an attempted repair.

              Rob

              Click image for larger version

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              Cate & Rob
              (with Border Collies Molly & Angel)
              2015 Reflection 303RLS
              2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
              Bayham, Ontario, Canada

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Jshantz View Post
                Cate&Rob

                I believe It is a rotomolded polyethylene tank. I did call GD and they were not much help. Several things that I read online said that abs and polyethylene really couldn’t be glued together. Originally there was some type of white sealant in between the tank outlet and the abs connection with a band clamp around the tank outlet. I want to keep from redoing this fix and do it right, the help from you and this tech forum is invaluable.
                I don’t think that band clamp is normal from the factory. I’ve not seen that before. I also think the fresh tank is polyethylene, but I think the holding tanks are abs.
                Neil Citro
                2018 Reflection 28bh
                2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

                Comment


                • #9
                  I have to agree with Neil that the black and grey tanks, if not all , are ABS. With that said after browsing some pics I took at the factory while on a tour. The band clam is being used, or has been at least. The sticky stuff that you have cleaned out of the connection may be like plumbers putty or something similar that would not glue the connection together permanently. After reviewing my pics I would strongly suggest a call to GD and see what they have to say.

                  Another option would be to use a rubber Fernco fitting. This is a flexible rubber hose with 2 hose clamps , one on each end. They come in inch sizes but not 1/2" , that I have seen. This would be a viable alternative to gluing.

                  Brian
                  Brian & Michelle
                  2018 Reflection 29RS Oct.2017 build date, EMS-HW50C , Lippert Remote
                  630 ah battery, Victron Multiplus 2, 800 watts solar, 100/50 SCC
                  2015 Chevy 3500HD CC LB Duramax , Reese Elite 18K

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    To correct my post above or contradict it after searching about the only RV holding tanks , fresh included , are mad from polyethylene, learned something new today.

                    Brian
                    Brian & Michelle
                    2018 Reflection 29RS Oct.2017 build date, EMS-HW50C , Lippert Remote
                    630 ah battery, Victron Multiplus 2, 800 watts solar, 100/50 SCC
                    2015 Chevy 3500HD CC LB Duramax , Reese Elite 18K

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Jshantz View Post
                      Cate&Rob

                      I believe It is a rotomolded polyethylene tank. I did call GD and they were not much help. Several things that I read online said that abs and polyethylene really couldn’t be glued together. Originally there was some type of white sealant in between the tank outlet and the abs connection with a band clamp around the tank outlet. I want to keep from redoing this fix and do it right, the help from you and this tech forum is invaluable.
                      Having first-hand experience with a failing valve, if you don't have to permanently glue the gate valve flange to the tank outlet--don't. Once glued, it isn't coming off. That becomes a major hassle if (when?) the gate valve requires replacement. My experience is with a Bristol valve, not a Valterra, and in the tight confines under a 315RLTS, so YMMV.

                      In contrast, the way the water tank is joined with the dump valve is ideal and (IMO) should be the standard for all dump valve connections. The water tank has a threaded "nut" embedded in the tank. An adapter glued to the dump valve then screws into the tank.

                      Super easy to replace a failing dump valve on the water tank. Not so much on my gray tanks as the dump valve flanges are glued to the tank.
                      Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                      2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Jshantz howson

                        Howard makes a good point that there is definitely value to making this connection "non-permanent". This would also eliminate the single-try-to-get-the-alignment-right insertion of the fitting with glue. The ideal assembly would be to glue a threaded insert into the tank and a matching threaded fitting to the gate valve . . . but, I don't think there is room for this.

                        I would be inclined to try a dry fit of the parts and see if the band clamp can actually tighten the tank material to the ABS fitting. If so, I would give serious consideration to silicone between the parts and the band clamp.

                        ​​​​​​​Rob
                        Cate & Rob
                        (with Border Collies Molly & Angel)
                        2015 Reflection 303RLS
                        2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                        Bayham, Ontario, Canada

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post
                          Jshantz howson

                          Howard makes a good point that there is definitely value to making this connection "non-permanent". This would also eliminate the single-try-to-get-the-alignment-right insertion of the fitting with glue. The ideal assembly would be to glue a threaded insert into the tank and a matching threaded fitting to the gate valve . . . but, I don't think there is room for this.

                          I would be inclined to try a dry fit of the parts and see if the band clamp can actually tighten the tank material to the ABS fitting. If so, I would give serious consideration to silicone between the parts and the band clamp.

                          Rob
                          Cate&Rob howson

                          i like the idea of a threaded fitting on the tank, but you are right as there is not enough room without making a lot of changes. I did talk to a rv tech that has done some work on my rig in the past and he suggested butyl putty and then something like flex-seal tape over the tank outlet and abs pipe to form an additional seal and to help hold the two parts together to keep them from sliding apart as the rig is bouncing down the road. I don’t know if that will work, but I’m going to give it a shot as it is removable and can try something else if it doesn’t work.

                          From the GD plant all of my tanks had some type of “putty” and band clamps on them. I’m including a picture of the connection with butyl putty installed between the tank outlet and the gate valve. So far with approx. 40 gallons of water in the tank over 12 hour it has not shown any signs of leaking. I also tested the gray tanks as well, so far so good. If it fails, I’ll go to plan B (whatever that is)?

                          Click image for larger version

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                          Joe & Melissa Shantz
                          2018 Solitude 310 GK, Sailun S637 Tires 5/14/20, Mor-Ryde IS, pin box and disk brakes 6/16/20
                          2021 Ram 3500 DRW

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Jshantz
                            Sounds like a good plan!
                            BTW, I am glad that you have joined our owners forum. You not only bring questions . . . but, solutions too .

                            Rob
                            Cate & Rob
                            (with Border Collies Molly & Angel)
                            2015 Reflection 303RLS
                            2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                            Bayham, Ontario, Canada

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Well, so far so good. It has been 2 years and still holding. No problems
                              Joe & Melissa Shantz
                              2018 Solitude 310 GK, Sailun S637 Tires 5/14/20, Mor-Ryde IS, pin box and disk brakes 6/16/20
                              2021 Ram 3500 DRW

                              Comment

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